ICBC writes off 2022 EV due to cost of battery replacement

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Wild one

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Sorry guys,i can't find the original article to copy and paste here,so you'll have to make do with the FB link

 
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Wild one

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ICBC scraps 2022 electric car after owners faced with $60,000 bill to replace damaged battery​

Damage to the EV's battery voided the vehicle's warranty and the quoted $60,000 replacement was more than a new car was worth, so ICBC wrote off and scrapped the nearly new automobile.
Author of the article:
Derrick Penner
Published Dec 21, 2023 • Last updated 5 days ago • 4 minute read
143 Comments
png1120-port-backlog-16.jpgCar batteries are installed on electric vehicles on an assembly line. PHOTO BY RICHARD LAM /PNG

Article content​

A Vancouver electric-car owner was shocked to learn earlier this fall that seemingly minor damage to his car’s battery required replacement of the unit and was quoted a $60,000 repair bill — more than the list price for a new car.

The owner was told the damage voided his warranty on the 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5, forcing him to file a claim with ICBC, which simply wrote the car off due to the extraordinary cost.

Automotive journalists Zack and Andrea Spencer chronicled the case on their Motormouth YouTube channel and said the case raises big questions for EV manufacturers around replacement costs and repairability of batteries as Ottawa introduces new rules to speed up EV adoption.

“The story is, people are buying these cars not knowing what the actual cost of the most important component of the car is to replace,” Zack Spencer said.

In this case, the Ioniq 5’s battery cover plate on the bottom of the car was scratched and showed a small deformation, which indicated the battery had suffered an impact.

Andrea Spencer added that it poses a problem for the whole industry if manufacturers can’t bring battery costs down, because “we cannot be writing off electric vehicles because the battery is damaged and the price is much too high to repair the vehicle.”

“This is a wake-up call and it really is big news,” Andrea said.

How big an issue writing off damaged EVs over battery-replacement costs in B.C. is difficult to determine because ICBC, the provincial insurer, doesn’t track that information, said spokesman Greg Harper.

B.C. has one of the highest EV adoption rates in Canada, but the 81,415 light-duty vehicles on the road at the end of 2022 were still just three per cent of the province’s personal-vehicle fleet, according to ICBC.

Staff in the insurer’s claims operations report that “it is an extremely rare occurrence” for vehicles to be written off solely for damage to a battery, Harper said.

However, when the repair cost of damage to a vehicle exceeds its cash value, ICBC will deem the vehicle to be a total loss.

Data is also difficult to come by in larger U.S. markets, but insurers are taking note of an increasing trend toward writing off low-mileage zero emission vehicles with minor damage, according to reporting by the news agency Reuters.

Reporters found that some manufacturers, such as Ford and GM, said they were making their battery packs easier to repair. However, in many cases, technicians lack the diagnostic data they need to evaluate even minor damage, so vehicles still have to be written off.

“The battery pack alone is often 30 per cent or more of the actual vehicle cost still,” said Werner Antweiler, a professor in the Sauder School of Business at the University of B.C. who studies renewable energy. “So this is a very significant thing.”

Antweiler said manufacturers are trying to balance trade-offs of making batteries that are light enough to be practical without also making them too expensive.

Many manufacturers place batteries at the bottom of their vehicles to give cars a better centre of balance, but that makes them more vulnerable to bumps or scrapes against obstacles in the road, Antweiler said.

That means they need to protect batteries better or make battery packs with more modular components so damage to one part doesn’t affect the whole unit, Antweiler added.

“So that is a question about the design,” Antweiler said. “And the manufacturers are still learning this is really a problem that needs to be solved.”

One of the difficulties for repair technicians is that auto manufacturers are so busy building cars to put them on the road they aren’t making a lot of replacement parts available, but the service sector is trying to catch up, said Mubasher Faruki, associate dean of automotive programs at the B.C. Institute of Technology’s school of transportation.

Faruki added that another big part of the problem is that there are few subject-matter experts to diagnose whether damage to batteries can be repaired and no standards or regulations to determine whether repaired batteries can be put back on the road

However, aftermarket parts manufacturers are starting to get in the game of producing replacement parts, such as battery contacts, bus bars and fuses, so repairs can become more possible, Faruki said.

At BCIT, he said experts are using that availability of parts to do their own research and development on what kind of battery damage can be safely repaired.

They’re also working with the Canadian Standards Association to develop standards around battery repair and certifying technicians, which will help bring the cost of EV repairs down.

“We’re literally building the plane as we fly so these things can actually start becoming mainstream,” Faruki said.

For the auto-journalist Spencers, the case they’re investigating leaves them with a lot more questions to ask as they evaluate EVs on behalf of consumers, such as whether batteries can be repaired, what do their warranties cover and what the cost is to replace batteries?

“If you are interested in buying an electric vehicle, you’ve got to have an EV checklist when you go into the dealership,” Andrea said.
 

Docwagon1776

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“The battery pack alone is often 30 per cent or more of the actual vehicle cost still,” said Werner Antweiler, a professor in the Sauder School of Business at the University of B.C. who studies renewable energy. “So this is a very significant thing.”

I've read this in a few places now, and also an explanation of why used EV prices are worse than used ICE of similar initial price points in the same category. Apparently there's no good and quick test of battery capacity? Odd, that.

To this specific incident, HT actual F can a component be significantly more than the vehicle it's in? I get labor prices and the like, but wow. I'm curious if this is like sometimes in construction you have to bid a job that you don't actually want for some reason, keep a repeat client happy or whatever, so you bid it stupidly high so you don't actually have to do it.
 

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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada. But as people continue reading it on Facebook, they regurgitate it on a different forum. And then someone else grabs it and posts it somewhere else.
The problem is that many people aren't smart enough to realize it's the same specific event told again and again, and instead they start thinking "well EV's are bad because any battery problem will total the car". If someone gets screwed on a repair of an ICE vehicle, they'll ***** about the manufacturer. Let's say it's Ford. But plenty of Ford owners will chime in and say they had good luck with their past 3 Fords, and will never buy a Chevy again, blah blah. But any spectacular story about an EV will go viral.
 

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OK. How about this story.......

Firefighters: 36,000 gallons of water needed to put out electric car fire on Interstate 65​


https://www.waka.com/2023/12/27/fir...o-put-out-electric-car-fire-on-interstate-65/

..............“Electric vehicle fires are unusual and present unique challenges and dangers to firefighters. These vehicles can reignite hours or days after they are first extinguished. They burn at temperatures exceeding 2500 degrees C. The smoke from these burning electric cars produces hydrogen fluoride and hydrogen chloride gases — both of which are toxic to breathe and require firefighters to wear breathing apparatus.”
 

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I've read this in a few places now, and also an explanation of why used EV prices are worse than used ICE of similar initial price points in the same category. Apparently there's no good and quick test of battery capacity? Odd, that.

To this specific incident, HT actual F can a component be significantly more than the vehicle it's in? I get labor prices and the like, but wow. I'm curious if this is like sometimes in construction you have to bid a job that you don't actually want for some reason, keep a repeat client happy or whatever, so you bid it stupidly high so you don't actually have to do it.
Keep in mind that in many cases there are fairly large subsidies available to the purchaser by state and federal government which represents a discount from actual list price, so the cost-to-repair versus purchase price is skewed.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 104038 miles.
 

CrazyHarleyGuy

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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada. But as people continue reading it on Facebook, they regurgitate it on a different forum. And then someone else grabs it and posts it somewhere else.
The problem is that many people aren't smart enough to realize it's the same specific event told again and again, and instead they start thinking "well EV's are bad because any battery problem will total the car". If someone gets screwed on a repair of an ICE vehicle, they'll ***** about the manufacturer. Let's say it's Ford. But plenty of Ford owners will chime in and say they had good luck with their past 3 Fords, and will never buy a Chevy again, blah blah. But any spectacular story about an EV will go viral.
The trouble is.....is that it is NOT the only story. I could find more as I have read more.


You can stand up for EV's all you want........but I am not drinking the kool aid!

The other issue of a bunch of them spontaneously catching fire is another issue. I don't know how the owners sleep at night with an EV parked in the Garage.
 

chri5k

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From the article "In this case, the Ioniq 5’s battery cover plate on the bottom of the car was scratched and showed a small deformation, which indicated the battery had suffered an impact."

So the most expensive part of the car is placed in the spot most likely to be damaged. Brilliant engineering. A scratch and a ding on the cover plate, not even the actual battery casing, voids the warranty. That is just nuts. Seems like a lot of posterior covering due to possible liability if the vehicle bursts into flames.
 

Joe Merchak

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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada. But as people continue reading it on Facebook, they regurgitate it on a different forum. And then someone else grabs it and posts it somewhere else.
The problem is that many people aren't smart enough to realize it's the same specific event told again and again, and instead they start thinking "well EV's are bad because any battery problem will total the car". If someone gets screwed on a repair of an ICE vehicle, they'll ***** about the manufacturer. Let's say it's Ford. But plenty of Ford owners will chime in and say they had good luck with their past 3 Fords, and will never buy a Chevy again, blah blah. But any spectacular story about an EV will go viral.


Not just this car. Watch youtube and tesla cam and you see a car with very little damage get totaled because the battery was touched. My wifes Mach E was hit, I added a picture so you can see the damage. That wound up being almost 9K worth of damage. The headlights on this car are $1600 each and both were broken when the bumper shifted. Insurance verified battery was not hurt in the accident because if it was it would of been totaled. There was no air bags deployed either. The parts for electric cars are extremely expensive, they want them to be throw away because they want no responsibility if something goes wrong with the battery.
 

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Docwagon1776

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Keep in mind that in many cases there are fairly large subsidies available to the purchaser by state and federal government which represents a discount from actual list price, so the cost-to-repair versus purchase price is skewed.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 104038 miles.

The vehicle in question has a base MSRP of about $42k. Do you really believe purchaser subsidies are making up the difference in a $60k battery swap for a $42k-before-subsidies car?
 

ramffml

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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada. But as people continue reading it on Facebook, they regurgitate it on a different forum. And then someone else grabs it and posts it somewhere else.

It's one story, but you're missing the point which appears to be that scratching a battery is enough for insurance companies to write off this car.

So if it happens to this owner of this model, what about this story makes you think it's unique to the story and won't apply to other owners of said car model? Other guys don't jump curbs? Other guys don't have crickets skipping to and fro underneath? What, exactly?
 
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Wild one

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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada. But as people continue reading it on Facebook, they regurgitate it on a different forum. And then someone else grabs it and posts it somewhere else.
The problem is that many people aren't smart enough to realize it's the same specific event told again and again, and instead they start thinking "well EV's are bad because any battery problem will total the car". If someone gets screwed on a repair of an ICE vehicle, they'll ***** about the manufacturer. Let's say it's Ford. But plenty of Ford owners will chime in and say they had good luck with their past 3 Fords, and will never buy a Chevy again, blah blah. But any spectacular story about an EV will go viral.
I'm sure if you dug around you'll find more stories of EV's being scrapped due to very minor damage to the vehicle.
By the sounds of it,if you jacked it up to change a tire on the side of the road,after dark in the rain or snow ,you could potentially damage alot of EV's batteries
 
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Wild one

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Not the most exciting video, but extremely informative on the dangers of EV batteries, by the NTSB no less. It's only 5 1/2 minutes though. Well worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k
That brings up the question of where and how to store an EV after it's been damaged,and for just how long does it remain a potential fire hazard. The fact a couple of them reignited several days after the fire was put out,and the car was in a storage lot,sure brings up alot of questions
 

Dusty

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The vehicle in question has a base MSRP of about $42k. Do you really believe purchaser subsidies are making up the difference in a $60k battery swap for a $42k-before-subsidies car?
No. Not at all. My point was simply that if one is making a comparison of repair cost to the value of the car there's a difference between retail and actual price paid. This is no different than it is now for any transaction, only more dramatic since many EVs have gotten some pretty heavy government subsidies.

Regards,
Dusty
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This same crap story keeps getting reposted everywhere, and many people are too stupid to understand that it's ONE story about ONE car in Canada.
And the story your read about a car catching fire after the water rose during a flood, in Florida, was just one story also. Unfortunately, it was repeated 6 times in six different houses during the last storm...But only one got reported by the generally dishonest press. I know of a firefighter that responded to 3 of them personally, in the same county. ^^This story isn't crap...It's a good example of the higher insurance rates that will be faced by owners of these vehicles, because while frequency may remain constant in pricing these policies, events like this indicate wayyyy higher severities.
 

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The high repair cost probably involves the removal & disposal costs of the battery. I would only imagine the removal involves a significant amount of labor. I'm sure it's way simpler to install the battery on The assembly line than it is to pull & replace it from a built car, much like putting a tub into an in-progress new build house is much simpler than pulling out & replacing your current tub.

Definitely an issue for those cars though. You'd think it would be pretty easy to make them essentially quick-swappable like some of the electric motorcycles. Still have the disposal costs though, which are probably significant.
 
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