Incessant problems with 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie - Terrible Ownership Experience

[JD Martin]

Here's my explanations:

1) I took delivery on a Saturday afternoon, and by the time I got to the shopping mall and realized that the passive lock / unlock didn't work it was already after 5pm and the dealer was closed.

2) I live in Easton, but purchased this vehicle in Souderton, as the local dealers didn't have anything in stock that I wanted and weren't willing to work with me on price on an order. I get it serviced close to home.

Thoughts:

1. Usually in life it pays to be proactive rather than waiting, unless of course your strategy is to leave the truck someplace long enough to have 30 days of repairs. I pulled up Ram's website and looked up dealers. There's a place in Bangor, which is 20 minutes from Easton (I used to live in the Poconos). There's a place in Allentown, another 20-25 minutes (I'm leaving out the
Brown-Daub dealerships). There's a place in Washington NJ which is another 20-25 minutes away. Before I would leave my truck that I believed was leaking from rain and waiting on other repairs at this dealership for 2 weeks, I would have picked it up and went to another dealership. Who cares if it's 25 minutes away? If it's just going to sit not being repaired it might as well be in China.

2. Demo vehicles are not ideal to buy. Even though they've never been titled, they have often been driven hard by sales guys and customers.

3. I doubt it was sitting on the lot for 6 months because it had problems. No one could know that just looking at it - you didn't, unless you just think you're dumber than the average person

4. My prediction: you end up spending a bunch of money and have no satisfaction whatsoever. Instead of trying to go this route, I probably would have cut my losses and aggravation, found a dealer that was sympathetic and traded it in and got my warranty coverage moved to the new vehicle, then let the dealer deal with the problems. Essentially the best you are going to be with a lemon law case is made whole for the vehicle cost or get a new vehicle. If you just traded in you might be out a few thousand dollars. Is a few thousand worth all the aggravation? It wouldn't be for me. Hell, I've sold aggravating cars and taken a loss just to be done with them.

5. No company cares any more if someone says "I'll never buy X from them again". The days of loyalty are dead. Companies know most customers shop on emotion and price. If the product speaks to them emotionally and they have the means to buy it, everything else doesn't matter. If you need a full-size truck and think that Tundras look ugly and F150s are too expensive, you're going to end up in a Ram. Or maybe a GM. You just don't have a lot of options. No company spends any money trying to maintain loyalty, that just comes as a byproduct of maintaining something else. Apple, for example, has great brand loyalty, but that comes mostly as a concerted effort to make their products always seem to be the "cool" product to have. The overwhelming number of people that own Iphones, for example, are under 30, while Android has a much higher share of the market for people over 30 where price and function is more important than image.

 

[JD Martin]

Here's my explanations:

Duplicate post.

 

[fotomatt1]

Actually it is hurting FCA....not the dealer. The dealer bears no responsibility in the whole thing. It's FCA that's liable for breach of warranty.

 

[fotomatt1]

Thoughts:

1. Usually in life it pays to be proactive rather than waiting, unless of course your strategy is to leave the truck someplace long enough to have 30 days of repairs. I pulled up Ram's website and looked up dealers. There's a place in Bangor, which is 20 minutes from Easton (I used to live in the Poconos). There's a place in Allentown, another 20-25 minutes (I'm leaving out the
Brown-Daub dealerships). There's a place in Washington NJ which is another 20-25 minutes away. Before I would leave my truck that I believed was leaking from rain and waiting on other repairs at this dealership for 2 weeks, I would have picked it up and went to another dealership. Who cares if it's 25 minutes away? If it's just going to sit not being repaired it might as well be in China.

30 repair days are approaching very quickly. No ETA on parts (even though I don't know what those parts are). And I can't be more proactive than calling them, emailing them, emailing and calling FCA. None of them will return a call or email. FCA made it clear that changing to another dealer would only delay the situation more, as a new dealer would have to do their own diagnosis and start the parts order process from square one, and they'd now be last in the queue for parts. Also, from talking to another two dealers, one of which you mentioned, they don't want another dealer's headache. They said if this repair is unsuccessful, bring it to them and start a new repair order, but don't change it in the middle.

2. Demo vehicles are not ideal to buy. Even though they've never been titled, they have often been driven hard by sales guys and customers.

3. I doubt it was sitting on the lot for 6 months because it had problems. No one could know that just looking at it - you didn't, unless you just think you're dumber than the average person

4. My prediction: you end up spending a bunch of money and have no satisfaction whatsoever. Instead of trying to go this route, I probably would have cut my losses and aggravation, found a dealer that was sympathetic and traded it in and got my warranty coverage moved to the new vehicle, then let the dealer deal with the problems. Essentially the best you are going to be with a lemon law case is made whole for the vehicle cost or get a new vehicle. If you just traded in you might be out a few thousand dollars. Is a few thousand worth all the aggravation? It wouldn't be for me. Hell, I've sold aggravating cars and taken a loss just to be done with them.

I don't have to spend any money. Lemon law cases cost the consumer $0. The law firm bears the cost....and if they lose they are out that money. If they win, the manufacturer pays the fees. And yes, the best I'm going to do is be made whole...so why settle for less than that? Actually, can be made better than whole, as there are other costs that they also need to reimburse me for.

5. No company cares any more if someone says "I'll never buy X from them again". The days of loyalty are dead. Companies know most customers shop on emotion and price. If the product speaks to them emotionally and they have the means to buy it, everything else doesn't matter. If you need a full-size truck and think that Tundras look ugly and F150s are too expensive, you're going to end up in a Ram. Or maybe a GM. You just don't have a lot of options. No company spends any money trying to maintain loyalty, that just comes as a byproduct of maintaining something else. Apple, for example, has great brand loyalty, but that comes mostly as a concerted effort to make their products always seem to be the "cool" product to have. The overwhelming number of people that own Iphones, for example, are under 30, while Android has a much higher share of the market for people over 30 where price and function is more important than image.

Yes, very few companies care about how their customers feel about their products, because once they have your money, they bank on you not putting in the time and effort to make them make it right. But for those of us that push back, it usually gets resolved.

 

[JD Martin]

Well, you are spending a boatload of time and aggravation. Isn't your time and energy worth anything? Or do you just enjoy spending endless days e-mailing FCA, calling FCA, driving by the dealership looking at your vehicle, calling dealers, posting about all the BS that they're putting you through?

Let's put it another way: Suppose I said "Hey, I'm going to make you a deal: I want you to give me $500 every month for the next 6 months, and during that time I'm going to give you nothing, plus I'm going to make you spend a ridiculous amount of your time putting up with my ********, and at the end of that 6 months you might just get all of your $500 back plus maybe a few extra bucks in your pocket". Would you take that deal?

Now you're going to say "Of course not, but I already have the truck". Well, turn it around. Suppose I said "Hey, I'm going to make you a deal: for a couple of thousand bucks I'm going to remove 6-12 months of aggravation, ******** and stress in your life, and make you feel good about things in general." Would you take that deal? That's the equivalent of just trading in this truck on something more suited for your situation.

I'm always amazed how much ******** some people will put up with for such little payout. Sometimes life is about knowing when to fold your cards and walk away as much as it is trying to sit at the table and win all your chips back.

 

[fotomatt1]

Well, you are spending a boatload of time and aggravation. Isn't your time and energy worth anything? Or do you just enjoy spending endless days e-mailing FCA, calling FCA, driving by the dealership looking at your vehicle, calling dealers, posting about all the BS that they're putting you through?

Let's put it another way: Suppose I said "Hey, I'm going to make you a deal: I want you to give me $500 every month for the next 6 months, and during that time I'm going to give you nothing, plus I'm going to make you spend a ridiculous amount of your time putting up with my ********, and at the end of that 6 months you might just get all of your $500 back plus maybe a few extra bucks in your pocket". Would you take that deal?

Now you're going to say "Of course not, but I already have the truck". Well, turn it around. Suppose I said "Hey, I'm going to make you a deal: for a couple of thousand bucks I'm going to remove 6-12 months of aggravation, ******** and stress in your life, and make you feel good about things in general." Would you take that deal? That's the equivalent of just trading in this truck on something more suited for your situation.

I'm always amazed how much ******** some people will put up with for such little payout. Sometimes life is about knowing when to fold your cards and walk away as much as it is trying to sit at the table and win all your chips back.

So when you have a lemon, feel free to trade it at a substantial loss. It’s your prerogative.

The dealership is on my way home and I can see my car from the highway. No time lost. I send them the same copy / paste email every day on an automated schedule. No time lost. There are other circumstances for which FCA will owe me money that I don’t want to spend time going into here.

In any case, it’s aggravating because I don’t have my truck and my wife will have to take our kids everywhere. I can’t trade or sell a leaking broken vehicle with a cracked rear window frame and stuck passenger door either unless I want it’s value reduced even more.

So yes, it’s to my benefit to proceed this way.


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[likes2build]

Stick with it @fotomatt1 ! If anyone purchased a new home from a builder and the roof leaked, the foundation buckled, the wiring, doors and windows were defective would they just sell it for a loss and move on? NO, I'm thinking that they would pursue the builder, correct? Isn't that what you are doing with your truck? Same amount of money, no. Did you make a major purchase in good faith and have a level of expectation that the builder / manufacturer (FCA) would deliver a good product to you or fix whatever it takes to make it a good product? Yes. Have you as of today received that? No
Simple as that. It's what we all want and what we all deserve. Am I missing something?

 

[fotomatt1]

Stick with it @fotomatt1 ! If anyone purchased a new home from a builder and the roof leaked, the foundation buckled, the wiring, doors and windows were defective would they just sell it for a loss and move on? NO, I'm thinking that they would pursue the builder, correct? Isn't that what you are doing with your truck? Same amount of money, no. Did you make a major purchase in good faith and have a level of expectation that the builder / manufacturer (FCA) would deliver a good product to you or fix whatever it takes to make it a good product? Yes. Have you as of today received that? No
Simple as that. It's what we all want and what we all deserve. Am I missing something?

Correct. The manufacturer is bound by the terms of their warranty and the state’s laws where the vehicle was sold. Why should I not hold them to that?


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[buddy guy]

have you got a lawyer yet? it seems you need to horsepower to put more pressure on FCA. and does a local or reasonably close media outlet have an investigation segment? having been in media for 31 years, i've seen this used effectively many times to get some action. businesses do not like bad press. on the other hand, they may be willing to put up with a customers direct to them gripe for weeks..months. you need to be raised up on their priority ladder. you are not the first, you just aren't high enough up or making a big enough stink yet it sounds like to get their attention.

 

[fotomatt1]

have you got a lawyer yet? it seems you need to horsepower to put more pressure on FCA. and does a local or reasonably close media outlet have an investigation segment? having been in media for 31 years, i've seen this used effectively many times to get some action. businesses do not like bad press. on the other hand, they may be willing to put up with a customers direct to them gripe for weeks..months. you need to be raised up on their priority ladder. you are not the first, you just aren't high enough up or making a big enough stink yet it sounds like to get their attention.

Yes. Lemon law case has been filed. I will update on progress.


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[buddy guy]

for what it's worth, i am very supportive of what you are doing. i am a big believer in justice. i was a mod for a large computer enthusiast site and a guy trying to rip me off for 100 bucks on a hard drive sale got me involved in a team of "trollhunters" to pursue online thievery and fraud and write rules duplicated by other sites as well on how online trading should be conducted. its just in my dna not to let anyone screw me over or die trying i guess. i guess my only question at this point would be is has the lawyer indicated how long they are prepared to wait for some action? my sisters a lawyer and she's kind of a patient, let's wait and see how things play out kind of lawyer. she's not the lawyer that would fit my personality, as competent as she is. lol.

 

[fotomatt1]

for what it's worth, i am very supportive of what you are doing. i am a big believer in justice. i was a mod for a large computer enthusiast site and a guy trying to rip me off for 100 bucks on a hard drive sale got me involved in a team of "trollhunters" to pursue online thievery and fraud and write rules duplicated by other sites as well on how online trading should be conducted. its just in my dna not to let anyone screw me over or die trying i guess. i guess my only question at this point would be is has the lawyer indicated how long they are prepared to wait for some action? my sisters a lawyer and she's kind of a patient, let's wait and see how things play out kind of lawyer. she's not the lawyer that would fit my personality, as competent as she is. lol.

Can be as short as 30 days or as long as 6 months.


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[buddy guy]

well, i'm crossing my fingers for you its on the short side. things can be maddening. I drive a service van and was rear ended twice last year. common van, easy to get parts, top dollar money from insurance for a 10,000 repair job for the auto body place. it took them 6 weeks to basically put a bumper, tail light and side panel on it. all plug and play parts, only painting to be done on 2 primed pieces. 6 weeks. sometimes i wonder about people and businesses.

 

[22hemi13]

Plus it’s also doing this! Can’t believe I found another user who was able to duplicate this noise but it’s been driving me crazy and the dealer can not diagnose and thinks I’m imagining it.





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Fwiw our 2017 makes that noise too. It’s the mirrors. My 2013 did it. My 2500 with the tow mirrors does not. All the other issues though man that sucks

 

[JD Martin]

Hey man, I hope it works out for you. I really do. All I am saying is that you could cure this aggravation real quick by just trading it in on another vehicle, whether Ram or something else. The truck is under warranty; why not let the dealer worry about making all these repairs once they've taken it off your hands? You're going to have to get another vehicle anyway.

In your case, sitting around means making payments, having no use of a vehicle, and being aggravated. In the dealer's case, it just means a truck sitting on the lot waiting for stuff.

It sounds like you're having a pretty good time driving by and looking at it in the dealer's lot and sending form emails to FCA and having your wife drive everyone everywhere, so I guess there's no real urgency. For me, I'd just try to bring it to a swift conclusion. But I don't know, maybe that's just because from my end time is money, and sometimes life ***** the bed on you and the best you can do without investing too much life force is get your best option and move on. If you have the inclination to battle to the death, then I say long live Sparta!

 

[buddy guy]

Sparta!!!! now you're talking my language! lol

 

[fotomatt1]

Hey man, I hope it works out for you. I really do. All I am saying is that you could cure this aggravation real quick by just trading it in on another vehicle, whether Ram or something else. The truck is under warranty; why not let the dealer worry about making all these repairs once they've taken it off your hands? You're going to have to get another vehicle anyway.

In your case, sitting around means making payments, having no use of a vehicle, and being aggravated. In the dealer's case, it just means a truck sitting on the lot waiting for stuff.

It sounds like you're having a pretty good time driving by and looking at it in the dealer's lot and sending form emails to FCA and having your wife drive everyone everywhere, so I guess there's no real urgency. For me, I'd just try to bring it to a swift conclusion. But I don't know, maybe that's just because from my end time is money, and sometimes life ***** the bed on you and the best you can do without investing too much life force is get your best option and move on. If you have the inclination to battle to the death, then I say long live Sparta!

I would never trade it for a Ram and another dealer doesn’t want it with a broken rear window and stuck passenger door. Not sure what is so challenging to understand about this?


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[JD Martin]

This is pretty much where I’m at, but am hoping FCA will work with me so we don’t have to go that route. If they work with me to get it replaced I’ll be happy to drive another Ram. If I have to use lawyers to force a buyback I won’t get another FCA vehicle.


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I would never trade it for a Ram and another dealer doesn’t want it with a broken rear window and stuck passenger door. Not sure what is so challenging to understand about this?


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What's so challenging is that it's really just kind of like what Judge Judy sayz about things not adding up.

You've had the truck 6-7 months. In that time you put 11k miles on it by your own numbers - you bought it with 1600 miles and it has 12500 on it now. For the last 2 weeks you haven't even drove it. Those are the same kind of miles I put on my commuter in that time frame, driving it 5 days a week, 100 miles each day (about 50 miles each way). Unless you're driving double that, it could not have spent much time sitting at a dealership with all these repairs. Somehow, despite the truck being a total POS and unsafe death trap with loose doors and fluttering hood, you managed to put all that ass time in the seat.

You never said the door wouldn't open at all, only that first they didn't line up right and then after they did some adjustments they were hard to open. I saw your picture and the door gaps look good to me in the picture.

But that's hard to see from far away. So let's say the doors don't open easy on the passenger side. And of course I can see a crack on the window frame. You still have a truck that looks good and is under warranty. You think another dealer won't trade you to get you out of a competitor's product? Hell, most of them give you a bonus for switching. Ram gave me a grand or two for leaving Nissan. You think a dealer will care about sticky doors or a window crack? Nope, because it's under warranty. My father sold cars all his life and you can't even imagine the crap dealers will take to put you in a new vehicle, especially when the incoming vehicle is still under warranty.

That's why I don't understand why you don't just pawn it off and get what you want.

I agree with you that it sucks for a new vehicle to have problems. I once bought a Chevy truck new with a manual transmission that had synchro problems from about 10k miles on. Under warranty, GM would not fix it as they claimed the problem was normal operation. I drove manuals all my life and it was not normal. I owned that truck for one year and when GM wouldn't fix it, I traded it on a Nissan. Did I lose a little money? Probably, but I don't remember how much. What I do remember is that the Nissan was a great truck and I was glad to be rid of the Chevy, and my life got a lot less stressful.

So I wish you good luck. I predict 6 more months of anguish for you and a sorry resolution to the whole issue. 6 months from now if FCA writes you a big fat check, please come back to tell me I was wrong - won't be the first time I'm wrong nor will it be the last

 

[fotomatt1]

What's so challenging is that it's really just kind of like what Judge Judy sayz about things not adding up.

You've had the truck 6-7 months. In that time you put 11k miles on it by your own numbers - you bought it with 1600 miles and it has 12500 on it now. For the last 2 weeks you haven't even drove it. Those are the same kind of miles I put on my commuter in that time frame, driving it 5 days a week, 100 miles each day (about 50 miles each way). Unless you're driving double that, it could not have spent much time sitting at a dealership with all these repairs. Somehow, despite the truck being a total POS and unsafe death trap with loose doors and fluttering hood, you managed to put all that ass time in the seat.

You never said the door wouldn't open at all, only that first they didn't line up right and then after they did some adjustments they were hard to open. I saw your picture and the door gaps look good to me in the picture.

But that's hard to see from far away. So let's say the doors don't open easy on the passenger side. And of course I can see a crack on the window frame. You still have a truck that looks good and is under warranty. You think another dealer won't trade you to get you out of a competitor's product? Hell, most of them give you a bonus for switching. Ram gave me a grand or two for leaving Nissan. You think a dealer will care about sticky doors or a window crack? Nope, because it's under warranty. My father sold cars all his life and you can't even imagine the crap dealers will take to put you in a new vehicle, especially when the incoming vehicle is still under warranty.

That's why I don't understand why you don't just pawn it off and get what you want.

I agree with you that it sucks for a new vehicle to have problems. I once bought a Chevy truck new with a manual transmission that had synchro problems from about 10k miles on. Under warranty, GM would not fix it as they claimed the problem was normal operation. I drove manuals all my life and it was not normal. I owned that truck for one year and when GM wouldn't fix it, I traded it on a Nissan. Did I lose a little money? Probably, but I don't remember how much. What I do remember is that the Nissan was a great truck and I was glad to be rid of the Chevy, and my life got a lot less stressful.

So I wish you good luck. I predict 6 more months of anguish for you and a sorry resolution to the whole issue. 6 months from now if FCA writes you a big fat check, please come back to tell me I was wrong - won't be the first time I'm wrong nor will it be the last

Today was the 21st day it’s spent at a service department since I purchased it in December. Do you want my documentation? Perhaps I drive more miles in a day than you.

The door sticks so badly that I have to get out and open the rear door so that my wife can get out of the front door.

Would you like to purchase it?



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[JD Martin]

Today was the 21st day it’s spent at a service department since I purchased it in December. Do you want my documentation? Perhaps I drive more miles in a day than you.

The door sticks so badly that I have to get out and open the rear door so that my wife can get out of the front door.

Would you like to purchase it?



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I already have a Ram. One without sticky doors or fluttering hoods. Besides, yours is the wrong color