Is Fifth Wheel Towing possible with '21 RAM 2500 w/ Diesel

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Thanks - Doesnt look like you have much rear end sag. Did you put install airbags? How do you like the AUH?

She don’t squat too much but I’m not fully loaded either, though both propane tanks were full in all those pics. I didn’t really pay attention to the order I loaded those pics, the last 2 were the day I picked it up (one at the dealership and one in my driveway), the “first” one is with most of our “essential” stuff loaded in there.

As far as the AUH, it suits my needs. This camper at max weight is 1/2 capacity of the hitch so I’m not as overly concerned as some with this hitch. Also of note, I did rotate the couple on the AUH to center the connection over the axle. This did bring the cap closer to my cab but I can still crank it 90* and maintain 6” of clearance. It looks darn close but it does clear! If you look at pic 3, that is with the coupler 4” back from the center. I thought it made it sag a bit more but they set it up that way for max clearance……….took more time to gather my sockets and torque wrench then rotate the coupler (super easy to do). That 4” make a pretty big difference, less sag and less porpoising with the pin weight centered, not behind the axle.

 

[392DevilDog]

Alright guys....this may be wishful thinking (or really reading) but want to out this out there as it seems to good to be true.

I have read from a few different places that the Payload capacity that is on the truck per RAM (mine is 2,190lbs stock) will include a full tank of diesel and the driver (at 150 lbs). These folks are saying I can pull that out of my actual weighed numbers as its baked in.

So if my truck weighed in at 8,300lbs and my GVWR is 10,000lbs = 1,700 payload left + Full tank at 224lbs and 150lbs for driver (Avg. number that is used). Does this really mean I have 2,074 of free payload?

I think I have been looking at this way too long!!

No.

 

[392DevilDog]

I would absolutely stop worrying about payload.

Payload is a number to give you an idea what a truck is capable of.

Worrying about what allowance they give for a driver is useless as each person weighs a different weight and most people are over 150 lbs dressed to drive.

You weighed your truck at the CAT scale. You now know exactly what your truck weighs. Every other number is is useless.

GCWR and GVWR and GAWR are all you need to focus on.

The towing number the website gives you is just GCWR minus Base weight.

You now know your base weight is what the CAT scale told you.

So. You either need to lower the weight added to the truck. Or lower the pin weight of a wanted trailer.

I would not concern myself with being a few hundred pounds over the payload number or even the GVWR number. But I would want to be a few hundred pounds under GAWR and GCWR.

If you need to know any of the GWR numbers...i can help. The V and A are on your door jamb and C is from the charts.

Or you can reverse the math and get them also.

Good luck.

 

[Duece21]

Thanks for that....with our camping gear with 20% added to pin weight I am looking at close to payload. This includes hitch and everything else. Can always put some of that weight behind the axle to lighten pin weight a bit as needed.

With that said, I have good cushion on GAWR
GAWR (6,040 lbs) -
Drive Axle Weight unloaded (3,280lbs) -
Added weight to bed (1,560lbs) -
= 1,200 lbs

Also GCWR
GVWR Truck - 10,000lbs
GVWR Trailer - 10,195lbs
-Truck Weight (8,300)
- Trailer w/ 1Klbs added (9,345)
= 2,550 lbs

Now, do I need to add my hitch weight into the mix here or is that captured in the trailer GVWR?

Check my math!

 

[Duece21]

She don’t squat too much but I’m not fully loaded either, though both propane tanks were full in all those pics. I didn’t really pay attention to the order I loaded those pics, the last 2 were the day I picked it up (one at the dealership and one in my driveway), the “first” one is with most of our “essential” stuff loaded in there.

As far as the AUH, it suits my needs. This camper at max weight is 1/2 capacity of the hitch so I’m not as overly concerned as some with this hitch. Also of note, I did rotate the couple on the AUH to center the connection over the axle. This did bring the cap closer to my cab but I can still crank it 90* and maintain 6” of clearance. It looks darn close but it does clear! If you look at pic 3, that is with the coupler 4” back from the center. I thought it made it sag a bit more but they set it up that way for max clearance……….took more time to gather my sockets and torque wrench then rotate the coupler (super easy to do). That 4” make a pretty big difference, less sag and less porpoising with the pin weight centered, not behind the axle.

Understood.....yea you hear the 4" makes a difference in turning. I have a short bed truck so I think I will just have to play with it a see how she goes.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Thanks for that....with our camping gear with 20% added to pin weight I am looking at close to payload. This includes hitch and everything else. Can always put some of that weight behind the axle to lighten pin weight a bit as needed.

With that said, I have good cushion on GAWR
GAWR (6,040 lbs) -
Drive Axle Weight unloaded (3,280lbs) -
Added weight to bed (1,560lbs) -
= 1,200 lbs

Also GCWR
GVWR Truck - 10,000lbs
GVWR Trailer - 10,195lbs
-Truck Weight (8,300)
- Trailer w/ 1Klbs added (9,345)
= 2,550 lbs

Now, do I need to add my hitch weight into the mix here or is that captured in the trailer GVWR?

Check my math!

The hitch weight counts against the tow vehicle GVWR not trailer GVWR

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Understood.....yea you hear the 4" makes a difference in turning. I have a short bed truck so I think I will just have to play with it a see how she goes.

Mine is a short bed.

And if you go with the AUH, it only weighs 35lbs. I’ll see if I can run by the scale on Monday, I’ve been curious myself what the pin weight really is.

 

[Duece21]

The hitch weight counts against the tow vehicle GVWR not trailer GVWR

So if I am adding that hitch weight to tow vehicle, does it come off of the trailer weight then?
Example - RV GVW is 12,000lbs and pin weight is 2,000lbs. Would you subtract the 2,000lbs of pin weight off the GVW of the camper when its hooked on the truck?

 

[Duece21]

Mine is a short bed.

And if you go with the AUH, it only weighs 35lbs. I’ll see if I can run by the scale on Monday, I’ve been curious myself what the pin weight really is.

Thanks, went to the Houston RV show to check it out today. Have a good deal lining up so may pull the trigger here soon.

 

[tron67j]

Thanks for that....with our camping gear with 20% added to pin weight I am looking at close to payload. This includes hitch and everything else. Can always put some of that weight behind the axle to lighten pin weight a bit as needed.

With that said, I have good cushion on GAWR
GAWR (6,040 lbs) -
Drive Axle Weight unloaded (3,280lbs) -
Added weight to bed (1,560lbs) -
= 1,200 lbs

Also GCWR
GVWR Truck - 10,000lbs
GVWR Trailer - 10,195lbs
-Truck Weight (8,300)
- Trailer w/ 1Klbs added (9,345)
= 2,550 lbs

Now, do I need to add my hitch weight into the mix here or is that captured in the trailer GVWR?

Check my math!

Load your truck for travel with gear (this is hitch, tools, cooler, beanie babies, whatever you keep in truck when traveling) and people plus full tank and weigh it. Subtract that value from GVWR on your door jamb sticker, the difference is your remaining payload, period.

So, if you hook up your trailer and go to scale again and just pull truck on (leave trailer wheels off scale), your total weight should be below your GVWR. Then pull forward and get full truck and trailer on and weigh, this total should be under the GCWR, which you calculate by adding your GVWR on door jamb to the max towing lb number you get by entering your vin on the ram towing site here https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html#/landing/bytowing

GCWR = GVWR + max towing lb. Exceed any of these numbers, or your maximum payload capacity (which you generally run out of payload capacity before you run out of towing capacity) and you enter (by a little or a lot) the white knuckle zone.

Don't shift weight off pin by shifting weight behind the trailer axle just to meet payload value you calculated above. That can cause fishtailing and get you in more trouble. A properly weight-distributed rig is just as important as staying under listed weights.

Good luck

 

[dhay13]

So if I am adding that hitch weight to tow vehicle, does it come off of the trailer weight then?
Example - RV GVW is 12,000lbs and pin weight is 2,000lbs. Would you subtract the 2,000lbs of pin weight off the GVW of the camper when its hooked on the truck?

yes because the trailer axles aren't supporting the pin weight, the truck axles are

 

[swapwap]

What what did you do duce? I’m in similar situation and looking at a 5th possible. But I don’t want anything too heavy or big anyway

 

[randyr6]

This is simple chart of GRWR by Weigh Safe-not fuel is included but not a SINGLE passenger

What Is Gross Combined Weight Rating And Why Is It Important?

So what is gross combined weight rating? Why is it important? And what can go wrong if you don't know what this number is?

www.weigh-safe.com

 

[Duece21]

What what did you do duce? I’m in similar situation and looking at a 5th possible. But I don’t want anything too heavy or big anyway

I'm going with the Grand Design Reflection 278BH 5th wheel. Will be fairly close but have weighed everything we camp with and look to be in good shape assuming 20% of that weight will be transferred to the pin. Going AUH since its only 35lbs and has good reviews.

If you know anyone looking for a TT, have my 2021 Imagine 2800BH for Sale!!

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

I'm going with the Grand Design Reflection 278BH 5th wheel. Will be fairly close but have weighed everything we camp with and look to be in good shape assuming 20% of that weight will be transferred to the pin. Going AUH since its only 35lbs and has good reviews.

If you know anyone looking for a TT, have my 2021 Imagine 2800BH for Sale!!

@Duece21 Finally made it to a scale! Now to be clear, my camper is not empty, it has what I consider a base load, as in the stuff I don’t take out (10x10 easy up, camp chairs, 2 full propane tanks, dishes, ext).

Pin weight of 1,580 lbs
Trailer Axle weight of 7,560 lbs

So a couple of other details, the 2 propane tanks are up front as are the easy up and camp chairs so that is a little extra weight transferred to the pin so I’ll venture a guess the listed dry pin weight on the 278BH is pretty close @ 1,321 lbs. We’ve got a short weekend trip in about 2 weeks, should have a decent load, the big heavily loaded spring break will follow, curious how the 6.4 will perform with a pretty full load down to the Gulf Coast.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Forgot obligatory pic cuz hey, we all like pics here

 

[Duece21]

Forgot obligatory pic cuz hey, we all like pics here

Man this is great info!! Much appreciate you sharing!!

If I could ever unload my current camper, I will be off getting this 278BH!!

 

[NH RAM]

@Duece21 Finally made it to a scale! Now to be clear, my camper is not empty, it has what I consider a base load, as in the stuff I don’t take out (10x10 easy up, camp chairs, 2 full propane tanks, dishes, ext).

Pin weight of 1,580 lbs
Trailer Axle weight of 7,560 lbs

So a couple of other details, the 2 propane tanks are up front as are the easy up and camp chairs so that is a little extra weight transferred to the pin so I’ll venture a guess the listed dry pin weight on the 278BH is pretty close @ 1,321 lbs. We’ve got a short weekend trip in about 2 weeks, should have a decent load, the big heavily loaded spring break will follow, curious how the 6.4 will perform with a pretty full load down to the Gulf Coast.

I think you'll be happy, I have a Cougar 30RLS 5w and my 6.4 pulls it nicely. I live in NH and I've towed to North Carolina and back and also up to Maine. The 6.4 and 8 speed really work well together in my opinion. When I last weighed our truck and 5w we were at 18,400 combined.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

I think you'll be happy, I have a Cougar 30RLS 5w and my 6.4 pulls it nicely. I live in NH and I've towed to North Carolina and back and also up to Maine. The 6.4 and 8 speed really work well together in my opinion. When I last weighed our truck and 5w we were at 18,400 combined.

Glad to hear it! Having previously owned 2 6.7 CTD’s I knew this truck wouldn’t pull the same but for what i pull and how often I couldn’t justify another diesel. For daily driving the 6.4/8 speed combo is very responsive and quite snappy, very enjoyable to drive around town.

My total combined weight from that trip to the scale was 16,340 lbs, we’ll add 1,500 lbs minimum at so I’ll be pretty close to what you were pulling when fully loaded.

 

[ChesterJack]

Maybe I am just being overly cautious but I purchased in January a Grand Design Imagine travel trailer 3100RD and not a 5th wheel mainly because my payload capacity on my 21 2500 Cummins is only 2,000#. The hitch weight on the GD is about 800# so I have no concern with driving overweight. The 5th wheels are nice but I don't want to risk my safety.