Is it safe to disable MDS on a regular basis?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

mohemipar

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Posts
1,494
Reaction score
1,096
Location
Michigan
Ram Year
2017 Laramie
Engine
6.4 Hemi, 4.10's
OK, now I am really confused, what the heck is that "stuff" and where is the catch-can placed; in-line with the intake snorkel? What the heck is there to "catch" from the intake snorkel?
To me, a catch-can is a radiator overflow catcher on my Cobra; a requirement for when I have tracked the car...


I forget where they mount on the Ram 1500. My 6.4 Charger has a Billet Tech CC and theirs mounts to a little screw hole on the block that was unused from the factory.

The catch can is basically condensing the crankcase vapors into an oily liquid and preventing this from being sent back up the intake manifold. Plenty of people running Hemis without them and doing fine but some of us would rather spend a few bucks for the peace of mind. Over time it can build up and that hurts power and efficiency. Some intake manifolds have still looked really good after a lot of miles when a catch can has been used. I have collected about a full can worth on my Charger over 5,000 miles.

azPFKfZ.jpg
 

kris72079

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Posts
22
Reaction score
8
Location
Bucksport, Maine
Ram Year
2010
Engine
Hemi 5.7
As for the catchcan setups, its physical location is not important as it is inline with the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system. it is meant to eliminate oil vapors from returning to the intake manifold during PVC operation. Those oil vapors stick to the intake manifold, the sensors, and create deposits on the backside of the intake valves. Ever heard of SeaFoaming your intake? That's 90% of what you're trying to clean out, oil deposit residue from your PVC system. Also, the engine does not burn oil in with the same efficiency as gasoline so those vapors entering the combustion chamber manipulate the pre-catalyst o2 sensor readings, degrading performance and economy.

As for the MDS system, some don't notice it for many reasons. With an aftermarket exhaust system it is very noticeable with the note change. Lower mileage motors with more efficiently operating engines are better at handling the transition between 8-4-8 cyls obviously due to strength. Trucks with a higher numerical gearset may not be as noticed due to mechanical advantage, the list continues...but two things are for certain:

One: using the tow/haul function puts unnecessary stress on the transmission that can lead to an undesirable latent side effect. The tow/haul function manipulates the shift parameters in the transmission to meet an temporary intended purpose. Sharper shifts and delayed converter lockup create heat, and heat is a transmissions #1 enemy. Shifting to manual mode eliminates these things.

Two: When using manual mode or even with deactivating the MDS system using a tuning device, you're still utilizing the same MDS lifter sets internally. Research what MDS and DOD (GM's version) lifters do longterm to a camshaft. Locking out the lifter so it doesn't actuate the pushrod and subsequent valve unloads the roller on the lifter. The lifters are designed to be used with a preload, anyone who had adjusted valves on a roller lifter motor knows this. Without the intended preload the roller partially slips along the cam lobe. Over time, throughout hundreds of thousands or millions of revolutions the roller can develop a flat spot. Once that flat spot develops, its over. It just became a flat tappet lifter, and the cam is NOT profiled for a flat tappet lifter. To further make the matter worse, activation and deactivation of the MDS lifter weakens the internal spring that makes it work, leading to the same unloaded roller tip issue as previously mentioned. Once the roller tip develops a flat spot it will wear the cam, developing a misfire, or in some instances the roller tip has suffered catastrophic failure.

Am I saying everyone's MDS system is going to lead to catastrophic engine failure? I am not. But it is not an unheard of occurrence either. Eliminating the use of the system aids in the longevity of the system. But my personal suggestion is that if someone is in need of internal maintenance such as an oil control valve or MDS solenoid replacement, take the opportunity to eliminate the possibility 100% by swapping or having the MDS lifters swapped out.
 

fljab

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Posts
117
Reaction score
67
Location
Mims, FL
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
This is my first Ram and have had it for a little over a year now w/17K miles. The first service when I took it in I told them there was a bad vibration at about 35mph or so. One of the mechanics was nearby and he explained the MDS to me. Since then, sought it out here and religiously turn it off via the manual shift.

I'll get a tune someday and have it permanently taken out, but until I'm off warranty, nothing gets touched.
 

Sonny188

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Posts
21
Reaction score
17
Location
Port Haywood, Va
Ram Year
2017
Engine
5.7 Hemi
Only negative is that gas mileage will decline less than a half mile per gallon...Big deal...I feel the truck is slightly more responsive with MDS disabled and it does sound better...I don't like the fact that MDS always disables the same cylinders...I went to the public school, but even so I can still see that is probably a problem down the road...Tow/Haul does not disable MDS...Only the - button on the wheel does...And you have to re-deactivate MDS each time you shift from Drive and back again.
 
OP
OP
GMcD

GMcD

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Posts
95
Reaction score
58
Location
South Carolina
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Hemi 5.7
As for the catchcan setups, its physical location is not important as it is inline with the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system. it is meant to eliminate oil vapors from returning to the intake manifold during PVC operation. Those oil vapors stick to the intake manifold, the sensors, and create deposits on the backside of the intake valves. Ever heard of SeaFoaming your intake? That's 90% of what you're trying to clean out, oil deposit residue from your PVC system. Also, the engine does not burn oil in with the same efficiency as gasoline so those vapors entering the combustion chamber manipulate the pre-catalyst o2 sensor readings, degrading performance and economy.

As for the MDS system, some don't notice it for many reasons. With an aftermarket exhaust system it is very noticeable with the note change. Lower mileage motors with more efficiently operating engines are better at handling the transition between 8-4-8 cyls obviously due to strength. Trucks with a higher numerical gearset may not be as noticed due to mechanical advantage, the list continues...but two things are for certain:

One: using the tow/haul function puts unnecessary stress on the transmission that can lead to an undesirable latent side effect. The tow/haul function manipulates the shift parameters in the transmission to meet an temporary intended purpose. Sharper shifts and delayed converter lockup create heat, and heat is a transmissions #1 enemy. Shifting to manual mode eliminates these things.

Two: When using manual mode or even with deactivating the MDS system using a tuning device, you're still utilizing the same MDS lifter sets internally. Research what MDS and DOD (GM's version) lifters do longterm to a camshaft. Locking out the lifter so it doesn't actuate the pushrod and subsequent valve unloads the roller on the lifter. The lifters are designed to be used with a preload, anyone who had adjusted valves on a roller lifter motor knows this. Without the intended preload the roller partially slips along the cam lobe. Over time, throughout hundreds of thousands or millions of revolutions the roller can develop a flat spot. Once that flat spot develops, its over. It just became a flat tappet lifter, and the cam is NOT profiled for a flat tappet lifter. To further make the matter worse, activation and deactivation of the MDS lifter weakens the internal spring that makes it work, leading to the same unloaded roller tip issue as previously mentioned. Once the roller tip develops a flat spot it will wear the cam, developing a misfire, or in some instances the roller tip has suffered catastrophic failure.

Am I saying everyone's MDS system is going to lead to catastrophic engine failure? I am not. But it is not an unheard of occurrence either. Eliminating the use of the system aids in the longevity of the system. But my personal suggestion is that if someone is in need of internal maintenance such as an oil control valve or MDS solenoid replacement, take the opportunity to eliminate the possibility 100% by swapping or having the MDS lifters swapped out.

Are you saying that by passing MDS via manual mode will actually cause my harm than just using MDS?
 

kris72079

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Posts
22
Reaction score
8
Location
Bucksport, Maine
Ram Year
2010
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Are you saying that by passing MDS via manual mode will actually cause my harm than just using MDS?
No Sir. Allowing MDS to activate and deactivate will weaken the lifter over time. When active, the MDS lifter primary spring is locked in a collapsed position allowing the valve spring to work backwards against the much weaker lifter buffer spring allowing the intake valve of the MDS active cylinder to remain closed . Continually locking out the MDS lifter spring through MDS activation will in time weaken it causing a partial collapse during operation. That's why many of our MDS equipped motors start to develop a lifter tick at cold startup generally in the 80k mile range.
 

kris72079

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Posts
22
Reaction score
8
Location
Bucksport, Maine
Ram Year
2010
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Only negative is that gas mileage will decline less than a half mile per gallon...Big deal...I feel the truck is slightly more responsive with MDS disabled and it does sound better...I don't like the fact that MDS always disables the same cylinders...I went to the public school, but even so I can still see that is probably a problem down the road...Tow/Haul does not disable MDS...Only the - button on the wheel does...And you have to re-deactivate MDS each time you shift from Drive and back again.
You are completely correct here. As a result of the cylinder not experiencing a combustion event, the rings do not maintain proper tension against the cylinder wall. During prolonged activation this can cause improper oil scraping from the cylinder walls, and ultimately oil to enter the MDS active cylinders. This leads to plug fouling, excess carbon buildup, o2 sensor failure and potential catalyst damage. Again, these are dramatic effects that typically take many miles to develop, but as you see these engines getting into the 100-150k+ mile range they will become more prevalent, as they are with GM and their DOD system.
 

kris72079

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Posts
22
Reaction score
8
Location
Bucksport, Maine
Ram Year
2010
Engine
Hemi 5.7
One thing that is worth mention, it seems as though many members with newer trucks state that tow/haul mode doesn't disable MDS. Maybe that is accurate, but on the earlier models it definitely does.

Also remember, ECO mode and MDS are not the same thing. Illumination of the ECO indicator does not necessarily signify MDS activation.
 

ncgrl1

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Posts
209
Reaction score
85
Location
Cajah’s Mountain NC
Ram Year
2020 RAM LongHorn 4x4
Engine
3.0 EcoDiesel
I actually took a 200 mile trip on an interstate in my state. I run the mds on one way, turned it off on the trip back. It gained 2 tenths mpg with the mds turned off...
 

6.7CumminsDrvr

The Dude abides………
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Posts
2,060
Reaction score
1,427
Location
Georgia
Ram Year
2021
Engine
392
One thing that is worth mention, it seems as though many members with newer trucks state that tow/haul mode doesn't disable MDS. Maybe that is accurate, but on the earlier models it definitely does.

Also remember, ECO mode and MDS are not the same thing. Illumination of the ECO indicator does not necessarily signify MDS activation.

Very good points

In the 8 speed equipped trucks, MDS still operates with Tow/Haul, it does not when used with the 6 speed.
 
OP
OP
GMcD

GMcD

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Posts
95
Reaction score
58
Location
South Carolina
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Is it possible to disable MDS with a ODB dongle like other vehicles?
 

Mtgldr

Junior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Posts
15
Reaction score
4
Location
atlanta, ga
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7L
Just to be sure I understand. You are disabling the MDS by manually shifting the trans to 8th gear when you first get in the truck? In my other car if I selected a gear the vehicle stayed in that gear regardless of speed, load or even if I stopped at a red light. Does manually shifting to 8th simply limit the MDS and the transmission will still downshift / upshift as designed?
 

6.7CumminsDrvr

The Dude abides………
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Posts
2,060
Reaction score
1,427
Location
Georgia
Ram Year
2021
Engine
392
Just to be sure I understand. You are disabling the MDS by manually shifting the trans to 8th gear when you first get in the truck? In my other car if I selected a gear the vehicle stayed in that gear regardless of speed, load or even if I stopped at a red light. Does manually shifting to 8th simply limit the MDS and the transmission will still downshift / upshift as designed?

Yes. Changing to manual mode will disable MDS. In a Ram the manual mode simply limits the highest gear avaialble for the transmission to shift up to. So if you select 5, it will shift just as it regularly does but won’t shift past 5th.

Unfortunately it will not “hold” a specifically selected gear
 

Mtgldr

Junior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Posts
15
Reaction score
4
Location
atlanta, ga
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7L
Yes. Changing to manual mode will disable MDS. In a Ram the manual mode simply limits the highest gear avaialble for the transmission to shift up to. So if you select 5, it will shift just as it regularly does but won’t shift past 5th.

Unfortunately it will not “hold” a specifically selected gear

So we still retain full functionality we just eliminate MDS, that's awesome!
 

kris72079

Junior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Posts
22
Reaction score
8
Location
Bucksport, Maine
Ram Year
2010
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Remember, you are not "eliminating MDS" you are stopping activation. You are still carrying around the MDS lifters that are the system fail point. When I get home from deployment in the spring, I will be doing a complete MDS deletion thread.

So we still retain full functionality we just eliminate MDS, that's awesome!
 
Top