Is there a computer chip in a key fob

[RemyDog2014]

Thank you so much to all that replied to my post regarding my key fob issues. What an informative conversation that has followed!! When I took my fob into Batteries Plus the next day, they did clean the metallic rings located inside the fob and even cleaned the small round disc that contact the metallic rings. They have ordered a new housing assembly for my fob which will arrive in a few days. After leaving the store all was fine for a few hours. However, since then the locking alarm has sounded several times randomly and I was no where near the fobs. The battery in the truck shows strong voltage and is relatively new ...So from what I have read in the replies...it appears to be a RF issue duplicated or possibly a "test box" with close proximity to my truck whether at a self serve car wash, a Lowes parking lot, or sitting in my driveway. Hmmm !! I will be reading the prior replies over again to better comprehend the possibilities as most are Greek to me....all the same heartfelt thanks and gratitude for the quick and most helpful replies. Yes there are bad actors out there and yes I believe modern vehicles are hackable. Although I am new on this forum, I have learned more in a few short months about Rams than I ever thought possible...needless to say I love this platform. ...and thanks to the poster who informed me that all Classics are 4th generation. LOL...

 

[GTyankee]

In the Example of the JEEP, that was supposedly Hacked
That Jeep was given to those Hackers, just to see IF they could hack it.

The other reason was to see IF & WHEN the Jeep was Hacked, FCA Engineers could write CODE to repair the mistakes if any ?

Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on the Highway—With Me in It

I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold.

www.wired.com

 

[rabbit_season]

Every button on the fobik has a metal disc on the back, and the disc becomes unglued - floats around and makes contact on the "bullseye" on the remote board. It will lock, unlock and set off the panic alarm randomly. Replace the rubber membrane with the buttons to fix it. If batteries plus gets you a new case, that will fix it too, though you don't need the plastic parts of the case. Save your original fobik housing and just use the rubber membrane if you want to keep the RAM logo on the back.

 

[GTyankee]

IF, you are worried about your vehicle being stolen

You should know that your FOBS are always communicating with your vehicle, or at least trying.

First thing to do is, IF your Spare FOB is always in your building & not being carried by someone in your 'Family'
REMOVE the Battery in the FOB

My spare FOB is in a Baggie, the battery is also in that baggie, but it is not in the FOB , it is in my garage.

I should buy a FARADAY Pouch, then the FOB that i use daily, could be placed in the Faraday Pouch, so that the FOB can not send a signal to the truck, when i am not near the truck.
FOBs can transmit for quite a distance.

sometime when you are about 200 feet from your vehicle.
PRESS the Panic button on the FOB

 

[crash68]

You should know that your FOBS are always communicating with your vehicle, or at least trying.

This only applies to vehicles that have push button starting, and even then it's a fairly short range.
The Ram key fob that you have to stick into the dashboard WIN module just uses a RFID chip that is activated by a small electromagnetic field created by the WIN module. The remote lock/unlock part of the fob only transmits when pushing a button.
The push button start fob can be cloned and/or range extended to start the vehicle, the insertion fob can only be cloned to unlock/lock the doors.
The auto manufacturers need to step up their game and make the keyless entry of vehicles linked to your smart phone. The encryption level capable with using a modern smartphone will make it impossible to for thieves to crack.

 

[GeauxinUp]

This only applies to vehicles that have push button starting, and even then it's a fairly short range.
The Ram key fob that you have to stick into the dashboard WIN module just uses a RFID chip that is activated by a small electromagnetic field created by the WIN module. The remote lock/unlock part of the fob only transmits when pushing a button.
The push button start fob can be cloned and/or range extended to start the vehicle, the insertion fob can only be cloned to unlock/lock the doors.
The auto manufacturers need to step up their game and make the keyless entry of vehicles linked to your smart phone. The encryption level capable with using a modern smartphone will make it impossible to for thieves to crack.

Our Kia Telluride does this.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

No, your key fob can't be hacked.

But your RF transmitted from your fob can be hacked by a passerby, there have been all kinds of thefts due to this, I never use my fob to lock/unlock my truck, I do one better I put my fob in a faraday bag in my pocket.

 

[GTyankee]

cleaning some of the GEN 4 IGNITION SWITCH

Ram WIN module (ignition switch) repair

Repairing the WIN module in my 2012 Ram 3500

www.youtube.com

another video about GEN 4 Ignitions
its almost comical, the FOB that he shows is a 2 button FOB
to remote start, you need a OEM 3 button FOB

Ram Trucks, Dodge And Chrysler Common Ignition Switch Key Failure

In this video I talk about and repair my 2011 ram 1500 that has a common ignition switch failure "KEY IN IGNITION" for cool tee shirts and merch check out th...

www.youtube.com

 

[SitKneelBend]

This only applies to vehicles that have push button starting, and even then it's a fairly short range.
The Ram key fob that you have to stick into the dashboard WIN module just uses a RFID chip that is activated by a small electromagnetic field created by the WIN module. The remote lock/unlock part of the fob only transmits when pushing a button.
The push button start fob can be cloned and/or range extended to start the vehicle, the insertion fob can only be cloned to unlock/lock the doors.
The auto manufacturers need to step up their game and make the keyless entry of vehicles linked to your smart phone. The encryption level capable with using a modern smartphone will make it impossible to for thieves to crack.

*Improbable for thieves to crack*

cleaning some of the GEN 4 IGNITION SWITCH

Ram WIN module (ignition switch) repair

Repairing the WIN module in my 2012 Ram 3500

www.youtube.com

another video about GEN 4 Ignitions
its almost comical, the FOB that he shows is a 2 button FOB
to remote start, you need a OEM 3 button FOB

Ram Trucks, Dodge And Chrysler Common Ignition Switch Key Failure

In this video I talk about and repair my 2011 ram 1500 that has a common ignition switch failure "KEY IN IGNITION" for cool tee shirts and merch check out th...

www.youtube.com

The fobs are actually identical with all buttons present, all one needs is the proper button mask and the features programmed.

 

[GTyankee]

so thieves can use the Electronic Cloning device to get into a 4th Generation Ram, by copying the FOBs signal.
Then after cloning the FOBs signal, they simply open a 4th GEN Ram's door.
BUT, they can not START it using the Electronic Cloning device.

If your FOB is kept in Signal Blocker, like a Faraday RFID Blocker, or something like a old Pressure Cooker
Then the FOB can not be cloned

 

[SitKneelBend]

so thieves can use the Electronic Cloning device to get into a 4th Generation Ram, by copying the FOBs signal.
Then after cloning the FOBs signal, they simply open a 4th GEN Ram's door.
BUT, they can not START it using the Electronic Cloning device.

If your FOB is kept in Signal Blocker, like a Faraday RFID Blocker, or something like a old Pressure Cooker
Then the FOB can not be cloned

I don't think that's true necessarily, my old DBall remote start operated by impersonating the FOB itself if I'm not mistaken. It's not a quick process though.

 

[JW2 Innovations]

There have been several displays of taking control of vehicles "remotely" over a wireless connection several years ago - and I'm sure some will occur again as hackers are always trying to take your stuff. Like this thread mentions many if not all were patched with updates. But the real blocker for those in previous years was when 3G cellular was shut off, which was the card in many vehicles being used as it was cheap to operate and not much bandwidth at the time was needed so it worked (most of the time). So remote hackers for those age of vehicles got blocked out automatically due to technology upgrade for vehicles using 3G. Another side effect on our 4th Gen Ram's - Uconnect updates stopped working wirelessly as well. But thanks to those like @SitKneelBend and others here on this forum, many like myself have been able to navigate the upgrade versions via usb thumb drives and the right order of updates applied with that assistance.

 

[JW2 Innovations]

*Improbable for thieves to crack*

The fobs are actually identical with all buttons present, all one needs is the proper button mask and the features programmed.

This only applies to vehicles that have push button starting, and even then it's a fairly short range.
The Ram key fob that you have to stick into the dashboard WIN module just uses a RFID chip that is activated by a small electromagnetic field created by the WIN module. The remote lock/unlock part of the fob only transmits when pushing a button.
The push button start fob can be cloned and/or range extended to start the vehicle, the insertion fob can only be cloned to unlock/lock the doors.
The auto manufacturers need to step up their game and make the keyless entry of vehicles linked to your smart phone. The encryption level capable with using a modern smartphone will make it impossible to for thieves to crack.

I agree on the encryption level being better, but issue with a smart phone approach is you eventually will lose remote phone app capability to your car when the cell technology changes. Just like when 3G was shut down, all those vehicles with 3G communication capability being utilized just got cut off. No more remote start via app, no diagnosis via app, no more Nav updates, no firmware to Infotainment system updates, none of that can communicate any longer because the vehicle is on a version of wireless that eventually gets turned off years later.

A good fix for it would be to have cars utilize an upgradable wireless card so you could upgrade from 4G LTE, to 5G, etc as time goes on. Make an industry standard card that's easy for the end user to swap (ok, I know that's too crazy right?) and your phone app keeps working because your car can still keep communicating via wireless and not be cut off.

 

[Docwagon1776]

But your RF transmitted from your fob can be hacked by a passerby...

You cut this out of my quote you responded to:

There are ways to duplicate it so another key acts like your key, but nobody can remotely hack your key.

 

[crash68]

I agree on the encryption level being better, but issue with a smart phone approach is you eventually will lose remote phone app capability to your car when the cell technology changes. Just like when 3G was shut down, all those vehicles with 3G communication capability being utilized just got cut off.

3G was destined to go away due in part to abysmal network bandwidth capabilities. 4G LTE isn't going anywhere anytime soon, they still have to figure out how to get the faster 5G to puch through walls better without having to install antenna every 1000' (laws of physics are against them).
Local authentication would happen on Bluetooth as to negate any issues that could arise if a vehicle is out of a phone network area or the network is down. Keyfob will still be the main means of accessing the vehicle but the phone will be the alternative method that one will primarily used. Much like credit card, you can have Tap-n-Pay set up on your phone to a credit card but you can still use the card if the phone falters.

 

[JW2 Innovations]

3G was destined to go away due in part to abysmal network bandwidth capabilities. 4G LTE isn't going anywhere anytime soon, they still have to figure out how to get the faster 5G to puch through walls better without having to install antenna every 1000' (laws of physics are against them).
Local authentication would happen on Bluetooth as to negate any issues that could arise if a vehicle is out of a phone network area or the network is down. Keyfob will still be the main means of accessing the vehicle but the phone will be the alternative method that one will primarily used. Much like credit card, you can have Tap-n-Pay set up on your phone to a credit card but you can still use the card if the phone falters.

Yea, not so fast there using Bluetooth and remaining secure long term. It's been hacked before hence security keeps getting updated as it has in the past, including the underlying chipset. Just like everything else technology wise. Doesn't matter the means of connectivity is selected, it needs to be modular in order to work long term as hackers just get better and find ways in. Doesn't really matter overall.... car manufacturers will never go for it as it would allow you to keep new functionality such as this in your older vehicle. And if they aren't selling new vehicles then they die.

 

[GTyankee]

5G towers are all over my town, they are on every 4 lane road in town.
They are also on 2 lane State roads.

I did not renew the Sirius XM subscription just because of those 5G towers.
XM Radio cuts out when i am within about 500 to 1000 Feet of those 5G Towers

I do not think that my 4G Lite Flip Phone cuts out like that,
except when i pass the County Court House / City Hall / City Police Headquarters,
which are all in the same city block.

 

[SitKneelBend]

5G towers are all over my town, they are on every 4 lane road in town.
They are also on 2 lane State roads.

I did not renew the Sirius XM subscription just because of those 5G towers.
XM Radio cuts out when i am within about 500 to 1000 Feet of those 5G Towers

I do not think that my 4G Lite Flip Phone cuts out like that,
except when i pass the County Court House / City Hall / City Police Headquarters,
which are all in the same city block.

I think the SXM reception on these trucks is particularly bad.

 

[GTyankee]

The issue with the XM not working happened in my town within the last 5 or 6 years

Both T-Mobile & Verizon have saturated my area with 5G Towers

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[JW2 Innovations]

The issue with the XM not working happened in my town within the last 5 or 6 years

Both T-Mobile & Verizon have saturated my area with 5G Towers

Explore Mobile Internet Coverage with nPerf Maps

Discover detailed mobile internet coverage maps for all operators. Check 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, and fiber availability in your area and worldwide.

www.nperf.com

Thanks for sharing this link. Looks like there is a filter you can put inline on antenna connection to help. GM 84601829. I haven't looked close enough to see if the connector type is same on Ram for antenna, but if not I bet there's one for us too.

I dont have the 5g saturated problem, but understand it. I have opposite signal issue...as in none too often.