Loud Lifters and/or Rods in Newly Rebuilt Engine

[indept]

After reading through most of this thread, if I had to bet, the sound you are hearing is the lifters bouncing on the cam lobes. If the lifters were not pre-lubed by soaking them in oil, they were soft and are bouncing. The OP said its ran about 30 minutes so I am almost positive the cam and lifters are destroyed.

I wouldn't run it anymore. I've seen lifters "mushroomed" so bad they can't be pulled out.

Drain the oil and see how much metal is in it.

When you say "mushroomed" I'll assume you are you talking about the bottom? The lifters in these hemis, as with most modern engines, are roller lifters so you shouldn't have that problem. Now there could be damage internal to the lifter from running collapsed. If the Op gets down to ripping apart the top end and removing the lifters, I would highly recommend getting new lifters and not attempting to reuse those even though THEY were new as of the rebuild. If he decides not to get new ones, he should at least dissassemble each lifter and inspect them internally.

As for mushroom lifters, I have fond (NOT) memories of using my trusty Lysle lifter puller to get the old non-roller lifters out of their bores. The old chevy small blocks ( '60, 70, and 80's vintage) were known for wiping cams and had those flat bottom lifters

 

[Burla]

If he is going to tear it back down anyway, why not try and lubrication strategy first? I've seen it work many times on engines that sounded just like that. Drive it for a couple weeks. If there is already damage, you have nothing to loose except the cost of some oil. You aren't gonna use the same items, and you will likely have to pull the Cam anyhow. Before doing all that, get some 5w30 redline and a RP filter. I wouldn't be saying this unless it has worked as many times as it has. Super high zinc, moly, and ester/pao base, this stuff is built for this. You have to give it 500 miles for the moly to plate, it is possible that is all I am saying.

 

[irsmun]

You put a new oil pump in right? If you didn’t have the lifters pumped up, didn’t prime the oil through the engine, it’s gonna be noisy. I filled the engine up completely with oil and then sat and turned the crank over and over by hand before I even put the engine back in the truck. I’m pretty sure the oil pump sends oil through the lifters and pushrods first, so it takes a bit for oil to get all through the engine.

I tend to agree with your diagnosis. We did install a brand new oil pump, but we didn't pre-circulate the oil. We are going to see if we can remove the lifters with only the valve covers off and try to oil them. Are they accessible that way?

 

[chrisp2493]

I tend to agree with your diagnosis. We did install a brand new oil pump, but we didn't pre-circulate the oil. We are going to see if we can remove the lifters with only the valve covers off and try to oil them. Are they accessible that way?

No the lifters are only accessible with the heads removed. Unless you can squirt some oil down the pushrod holes but I doubt that will accomplish much


You can polish a ****, just don’t pretend you have anything more then a shiny ****.
I bleed Ram Trucks

 

[irsmun]

If he is going to tear it back down anyway, why not try and lubrication strategy first? I've seen it work many times on engines that sounded just like that. Drive it for a couple weeks. If there is already damage, you have nothing to loose except the cost of some oil. You aren't gonna use the same items, and you will likely have to pull the Cam anyhow. Before doing all that, get some 5w30 redline and a RP filter. I wouldn't be saying this unless it has worked as many times as it has. Super high zinc, moly, and ester/pao base, this stuff is built for this. You have to give it 500 miles for the moly to plate, it is possible that is all I am saying.

My only issue with this strategy is if one of the lifters has locked up. If it has it will begin to wear our cam down again. The engine has less than 30 minutes of run time. I can replace the lifters now and hopefully save the cam.

 

[Lee Peterson]

Id pull the valve covers. Spin the motor by hand till each valve has closed and see if any of the push rods have slack.

 

[crackerjack1957]

My only issue with this strategy is if one of the lifters has locked up. If it has it will begin to wear our cam down again. The engine has less than 30 minutes of run time. I can replace the lifters now and hopefully save the cam.

Sounds like a good plan, since its a roller cam hopefully the lifters are the only failure for that short amount of run-time.
Might want to look at rocker assembly & push rods to make sure they did not get hammered.
Also if you have 1 of the old roller lifter push down on it with push rod & then push down 1 that is in engine to see if they feel the same.
Roll push rods on flat surface also to see if they are bent slightly.

 

[TMyers]

Id pull the valve covers. Spin the motor by hand till each valve has closed and see if any of the push rods have slack.

The springs in the lifters will keep the pushrods tight to the rocker arms. Lack of oil in the lifters is most likely the peening noise.

As Lee stated above, pull the valve covers and check for slack. But, while you have them off, remove the spark plugs and crank the motor over with the starter. You should see oil pumping up through the pushrods onto the rocker arms. If not, you found the problem. Not to add salt but, if you find some dry ones, the tops of those valves, seats, and stem seals have only had what assembly lube you used for that 30 minutes of run time.

 

[irsmun]

Pulled the heads. All the longer rods were bent.

 

[TMyers]

Not knowing myself but with the longer pushrods being bent, are there 8 long and 8 short? If so, could the pushrods been installed out of order?

 

[Ramnewbie]

What's you're piston tops look like? Looks like you had the cam way out of time.

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[irsmun]

Not knowing myself but with the longer pushrods being bent, are there 8 long and 8 short? If so, could the pushrods been installed out of order?

Correct. 8 long, 8 short.

I should ask a stupid question now? Is this a non-interference engine?

 

[irsmun]

What's you're piston tops look like? Looks like you had the cam way out of time.

There is a single strike mark on each piston.

 

[TMyers]

I guess a quick question would be, now that you have the pushrods out, are all of the valve springs and top of the valves the same height? If so, maybe you haven't bent the valves.

 

[TMyers]

There is a single strike mark on each piston.

So you've pulled the heads?

 

[Ramnewbie]

There is a single strike mark on each piston.

Before you put it back together you'd better check to make sure you don't have any bent valves.

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[TMyers]

What's you're piston tops look like? Looks like you had the cam way out of time.

I don't think it could have been out much since the motor ran. And again, I have never seen this engine so I'm half guessing here so be kind if I'm way off.

 

[chrisp2493]

Pulled the heads. All the longer rods were bent.

Damn, well there’s your problem...
I’m gonna guess you didn’t put the rods in the wrong holes. The short ones are so small I think they fall into the holes, it’s obvious if you did them wrong. I’ll bet your cam timing was way off...

Guess it wasn’t the “Hemi Tick” after all haha


You can polish a ****, just don’t pretend you have anything more then a shiny ****.
I bleed Ram Trucks

 

[irsmun]

So when we first put it back together it was out of time a few teeth. There are other marks on the cam sprocket that we mistook for the timing mark. It wasn't off by much but it did not run. We re-timed and it still did not run well but did. So I think at that time the rods were bent and that is the sound we are hearing. The valves don't appear damaged. It looks as if the rods took all the abuse.

The question now is the lifters. Are they still good to use? Close inspection shows all the rollers functioning and, btw, oiled. So we are getting oil. There are only small directional wear marks on the sides.

 

[Ramnewbie]

I don't think it could have been out much since the motor ran. And again, I have never seen this engine so I'm half guessing here so be kind if I'm way off.

My dad and one of his running mates put a new cam in a Chevy 454, it run like crap and backfired. I told them timing was way off and ask them about the cam timing when they put it in. Long story short they had the cam timed 180° out. Luckily they got away with just new pushrods.

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