My Hemi tick experience

[Burla]

Thank you for explaining what the winter rating means for each grade.

Appreciate you including the graphs. I assume the the horizontal line is temperature in C. What is the vertical line representation?

I have this chart which I was thinking you sent out a long time ago, or maybe I got this from another source. Unfortunately it does not extend to 0.0 F or 32F. Does this chart look familiar to you?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 117448 miles.

Viscosity, and that only goes to 0c better known as 32f, as it gets colder the viscosity is way more dramatic, at around 0-f and a bit lower you see 2,000 and 3,000 viscosity even with thin oils. To see on a graph or even interpret is a bit over most of our heads, but there are those calculators out there as well.

 

[Wild one]

Okay. I thought we were addressing 1500s only. I was thinking the 5W-30 usage in 1500s was worded differently. In the case of a 2500-3500, I agree this probably makes sense.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 117448 miles.

Same bearing clearances in the 5.7 whether it's in a 1500 or 2500 or heavier truck
The bearing clearances haven't changed in the newer 5.7's,and now they call for 0W-20,whats that say about how the manufacture'r is specifying oils,it sure as hell isn't for engine longevity,it's strictly for emissions and milege numbers

 

[Dusty]

5.7's and 6.4's are the same

file:///C:/Users/Personal%20Computer/Downloads/2011_392_hemi_specs.pdf

​

Ram Eagle Engine Specs from Chrysler Tech Manual​

SPECIFICATIONS
Eagle Engine - 90° V-8 OHV
Metric / Standard
Displacement 5.7 Liters / 348 CID
Bore 99.5 mm / 3.92 in.
Stroke 90.9 mm / 3.58 in.
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Max. Variation Between Cylinders 25%
Firing Order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Lubrication Pressure Feed - Full Flow Filtration
Cooling System Liquid Cooled
Cylinder Block Cast Iron
Cylinder Head Aluminum
Crankshaft Nodular Iron
Camshaft Cast Iron
Pistons Aluminum Alloy
Connecting Rods Powdered Metal

CYLINDER BLOCK
Metric / Standard
Cylinder Bore Diameter 99.50 mm / 3.92 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.0076 mm / 0.0003 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.0127 mm / 0.0005 in.
Lifter Bore Diameter 21.45 - 21.425 mm / 0.8444 - 0.8435 in.

PISTONS
Metric / Standard
Clearance
Measured at 38.0 mm / 1.5 in. Below Deck 0.031 - 0.058 mm / 0.012 - 0.023 in.
Ring Groove Diameter
Top Groove 90.4 - 90.6 mm / 3.56 - 3.57 in.
Second Groove 88.4 - 88.7 mm / 3.48 - 3.49 in.
Weight 413 grams 14.56 oz
Piston Length 53.3 mm / 2.10 in.
Ring Groove Width
No. 1 1.23 - 1.26 mm / 0.048 - 0.0496 in
No. 2 1.23 - 1.25 mm / 0.048 - 0.0492 in.
No. 3 2.03 - 2.05 mm / 0.079 - 0.080 in.

PISTON PINS
Metric / Standard
Clearance In Piston 0.005 - 0.014 mm / 0.0001 - 0.0005 in.
Diameter 24.004 - 24.007 mm / 0.945 - 0.9451 in.
Length 62.99 - 63.21 mm / 2.47 - 2.48 in.

PISTON RINGS
Metric / Standard
Ring Gap
Top Compression Ring 0.40 - 0.55 mm / 0.015 - 0.021 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.24 - 0.51 mm / 0.009 - 0.020 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.15 - 0.66 mm / 0.0059 - 0.0259 in.
Side Clearance
Top Compression Ring 0.04 - 0.09 mm / 0.001 - 0.0035 in.
Second Compression Ring 0.04 - .08 mm / 0.001 - 0.0031 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.06 - 0.21 mm / 0.002 - 0.008 in.
Ring Width
Top Compression Ring 1.17 - 1.19 mm / 0.0460 - 0.0468 in.
Second Compression Ring 1.17 - 1.19 mm / 0.0460 - 0.0468 in.
Oil Control Rails 0.387 - 0.413 mm / 0.015 - 0.016 in.

CONNECTING RODS
Metric / Standard
Piston Pin Bore Diameter 24.014 - 24.024 mm / 0.9454 - 0.9458 in.
Side Clearance 0.10 - 0.35 mm / 0.003 - 0.0137 in.

CRANKSHAFT
Metric / Standard
Main Bearing Journal Diameter 64.988 - 65.012 mm / 2.5585 - 2.5595 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.023 - 0.051 mm / 0.0009 - 0.002 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm / 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm / 0.0001 in.
End Play 0.052 - 0.282 mm / 0.002 - 0.011 in.
End Play (MAX) 0.282 mm / 0.011 in.
Connecting Rod Journal Diameter 53.992 - 54.008 mm / 2.126 in.
Bearing Clearance 0.020 - 0.060 mm / 0.0007 - 0.0023 in.
Out of Round (MAX) 0.005 mm / 0.0002 in.
Taper (MAX) 0.003 mm / 0.0001 in.

CAMSHAFT
Metric / Standard
Bearing Journal Diameter
No. 1 58.2 mm / 2.29 in.
No. 2 57.8 mm / 2.28 in.
No. 3 57.4 mm / 2.26 in.
No. 4 57.0 mm / 2.24 in.
No. 5 43.633 mm / 1.72 in.
Bearing To Journal Clearance Standard
No. 1 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
No. 2 0.050 -0.090 mm / 0.0019 - .0035 in.
No. 3 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
No. 4 0.050 - 0.090 mm / 0.0019 - .0035 in.
No. 5 0.040 - 0.080 mm / .0015 - .003 in.
Camshaft End Play .080 - 0.290mm / 0.0031 - 0.0114 in.

VALVE TIMING

Intake
Opens (BTDC) 28.2°
Closes (ATDC) 239.8°
Duration 268°
Exhaust
Opens (BTDC) 274.2°
Closes (ATDC) 15.8°
Duration 290°
Valve Overlap 44°

CYLINDER HEAD
Metric / Standard
Valve Seat Angle 44.5° - 45.0°
Valve Seat Runout (MAX) 0.05 mm / 0.0019 in.
Valve Seat Width (finish)
Intake 1.18 - 1.62 mm / .0638 in.
Exhaust 1.48 - 1.92 mm / 0.0583 - 0.0756 in.
Guide Bore Diameter (Std.) 7.975 - 8.00 mm / 0.3134 - 0.315 in.

HYDRAULIC TAPPETS
Metric / Standard
Body Diameter 21.387 - 21.405 mm / 0.8420 - 0.8427 in.
Clearance (to bore) 0.020 - 0.063 mm / 0.0008 - 0.0025 in.
Dry Lash 3.0 mm (at the valve) / 0.1181 in. (at the valve)

VALVES
Metric / Standard
Face Angle 45.0° - 45.5°
Head Diameter
Intake 50.67 - 50.93 mm / 1.99 - 2.01 in.
Exhaust 39.27 - 39.53 mm / 1.55 - 1.56 in.
Length (overall)
Intake 123.38 - 123.76 mm / 4.857 - 4.872 in.
Exhaust 120.475 - 120.855 mm / 4.743 - 4.758 in.
Stem Diameter
Intake 7.935 - 7.953 mm / 0.312 - 0.313 in.
Exhaust 7.932 - 7.950 mm / 0.312 - 0.313 in.
Stem - to - Guide Clearance
Intake 0.022 - 0.065 mm / 0.0008 - 0.0025 in.
Exhaust 0.025 - 0.065 mm / 0.0009 - 0.0025 in.
Valve Lift ( @ zero lash)
Intake 12.0 mm / 0.472 in.
Exhaust 11.70 mm / 0.460 in.

VALVE SPRING
Metric / Standard
Spring Force (valve closed) 435.0 N +/- 22.0 N @ 45 mm / 97.8 lbs +/- 5.0 lbs. @ 1.771 in.
Spring Force (valve open) 1077.0 N +/- 48.0 N @ 32.6 mm./ 242.0 lbs. +/- 11 lbs. @ 1.283 in.
Free Length (approx). 55.6 mm / 2.189 in.
Number of Coils 7.95
Wire Diameter 4.95 × 4.1 mm / 0.194 - 0.161 in.
Installed Height (spring seat to bottom of retainer) 46.0 mm / 1.81 in.

OIL PUMP
Metric / Standard
Clearance Over Rotors (MAX) 0.095 mm / 0.0038 in.
Outer Rotor to Pump Body Clearance (MAX) .235 mm / 0.009 in.
Tip Clearance Between Rotors (MAX) 0.150 mm / 0.006 in.

OIL PRESSURE
Metric / Standard
At Curb Idle Speed (MIN)* 25 kPa / 4 psi
@ 3000 rpm 170 - 758 kPa / 25 - 110 psi
* CAUTION: If pressure is zero at curb idle, DO NOT run engine.









Supposedly the trucks wouldn't meet their milege estimates with 5W-30

I appreciate the info, but I don't see these specs addressing the 6.4, just the 5.7. There's nothing to compare.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 117448 miles.

 

[Wild one]

I appreciate the info, but I don't see these specs addressing the 6.4, just the 5.7. There's nothing to compare.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 117448 miles.

The pdf file is on the 6.4 if you open it.
If it doesn't work,you can google 6.4 bearing clearances,and you should find the pdf file on the Jeep forum.
They're the same bearing clearances between the 5.7 and 6.4 though

 

[Wild one]

file:///C:/Users/Personal%20Computer/Downloads/2011_392_hemi_specs%20(1).pdf

 

[ramffml]

Not exactly, winter rating means the best possible flow for that weight and still maintain lubricty, not same flow across weights. If so 0w20 would flow as good as 0w40 in the cold, nowhere near the case. Graph 0w30 and 5w20 and see the results, sometimes guys seam to forget about 0w30.

My understanding is that you can use any 0w and you're good to -40, any 5w and you're good to -35. This graph here suggests it:





I get that it depends a lot on the oil formula itself. There is still enough room for variations in the grade, but looking at this graph I made some time ago for various HPL oils, the two 0w's are pretty much "equal" when compared to the 5w:

 

[Wild one]

Oil pan heaters offsets alot of cold viscosity issues,lol

 

[Burla]

My understanding is that you can use any 0w and you're good to -40, any 5w and you're good to -35. This graph here suggests it:

View attachment 549037



I get that it depends a lot on the oil formula itself. There is still enough room for variations in the grade, but looking at this graph I made some time ago for various HPL oils, the two 0w's are pretty much "equal" when compared to the 5w:


View attachment 549038

I understand what you are saying, but what you need to consider is what they are saying is "possible" with a given weight of oil and maintaining an iso grade. So they are saying if you need to use a 40 weight then 0w40 is going to be the best you can get at that given temp, not that it will flow equal to 0w20 in the cold. I would say that chart is the problem as those values are way too high, first value to read is 2,000 viscosity and then jumps to 4000, lol. If you could magnify that graph you would see a difference. Use that calculator I posted and post those value 0w20 and 0w30 you will see.

 

[Burla]

Oil pan heaters offsets alot of cold viscosity issues,lol

right...

 

[Burla]

Here is your two oils magnified those values 0w20 and 0w30 hpl.. At 32f it is about 50 viscosity different.

 

[Burla]

add some 0w40 redline

 

[Dusty]

I understand what you are saying, but what you need to consider is what they are saying is "possible" with a given weight of oil and maintaining an iso grade. So they are saying if you need to use a 40 weight then 0w40 is going to be the best you can get at that given temp, not that it will flow equal to 0w20 in the cold. I would say that chart is the problem as those values are way too high, first value to read is 2,000 viscosity and then jumps to 4000, lol. If you could magnify that graph you would see a difference. Use that calculator I posted and post those value 0w20 and 0w30 you will see.

Maybe this helps explain it.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 117524 miles.

 

[ramffml]

Here is your two oils magnified those values 0w20 and 0w30 hpl.. At 32f it is about 50 viscosity different.

View attachment 549039

Yep I get that, but it's relative to the major difference we see jumping up to a 5w grade.

There is not that much difference comparing the two 0 grades when you consider the massive jump moving up to 5 grade.

 

[Burla]

Yep I get that, but it's relative to the major difference we see jumping up to a 5w grade.

There is not that much difference comparing the two 0 grades when you consider the massive jump moving up to 5 grade.

did you see 0w30 and 5w20 graph? I'm guessing you meant winter rating and not grade. There is a minimum viscosity number to make zero winter ratings, but 30 and 20 weight oils go away below minimum.

 

[JHoward]

Well, I guess I'll come back tomorrow and read all of this stuff over again.

 

[Burla]

Well, I guess I'll come back tomorrow and read all of this stuff over again.

did you have a question dub?