New electric Ram

[Octane]

Electric vehicles are pushed on us by politics and mostly environmental activists concerns.Not by the automotive industry.As the CEO of Stellantis said.The industry is being pushed that way much too fast.This is what that CEO said.Put me in Ram forum jail if you must.

 

[Rado]

. l ! What gets me is states like California have major electric grid issue now, They have thousands or brown out and outage's when too many AC turn on in heat waves ! What are they going to do when millions of cars plug in ??? :O

 

[HEMIMANN]

Politics for sure. And they are getting plenty of kick backs as well ! What gets me is states like California have major electric grid issue now, They have thousands or brown out and outage's when too many AC turn on in heat waves ! What are they going to do when millions of cars plug in ??? :O

Lots of chanting and marching for electricity?

 

[Octane]

Lots of chanting and marching for electricity?

Never mind...I'm not one of the ones that can get away with saying anything even remotely political...or what they will twist into a political thing anyway.

 

[mcarey]

The only way this thread will stay alive is if you guys can keep politics out of it. This was covered very early in the thread.

I recognize thats complicated for those who allow the talking heads on the radio and TV to control every thought that exists in their brains, but please take it elsewhere.

Some of us actually enjoy discussing this topic from a reality based perspective, and have had no problems leaving political opinions at the door.

 

[Octane]

But some of us know what the reality of electric vehicles really is... a polarizing issue.And it is the very technology that whether we like it or not is more based on political ideology, and that is what is bringing forth the electric powered vehicles.No one is lobbying Washington to build more internal combustion engines for obvious reasons.That said....most people do not like change.Especially rapid change.And it is very hard for some to talk about some subjects in a very ''narrowly focused way''

 

[mcarey]

But some of us know what the reality of electric vehicles really is... a polarizing issue.And it is the very technology that whether we like it or not is more based on political ideology, and that is what is bringing forth the electric powered vehicles.No one is lobbying Washington to build more internal combustion engines for obvious reasons.That said....most people do not like change.Especially rapid change.And it is very hard for some to talk about some subjects in a very ''narrowly focused way''

It's entirely possible to discuss the demand for EVs in a manner that isn't politically divisive or polarizing. And without making politically opinionated claims.

For example, I could say that Tesla sold around 2,000,000 cars throughout 2017 - 2021, with sales increasing exponentially every year - as evident by their quarterly earnings statements. I think it's fair to imagine most other brands with EV models also saw similar results on their EV offerings through that time period as well. This would suggest the demand for EVs was actively growing throughout that entire period.

And I'm sure you can recognize the difference between that fact (and admittedly an assumption as well), and the recent comment above around marching and protesting, in regards to keeping this discussion on point and actually being on topic - and more importantly devoid of political opinion.

Also for clarity sake, these aren't my rules. This was declared early in the thread by the moderation team. I just enjoy this conversation, have learned quite a bit, and hope to have taught someone something at some point, so I'd like to see it stay alive. If for whatever reason you, or anyone for that matter, has a comment they want to make that they fear is too sensitive for this thread; PM me. I've got no problem with that, as thats why we're all here. My only ask would be that you're respectful.

 

[HEMIMANN]

There's also such a thing as humor to lighten the tenseness a bit. Let's not be taking ourselves too seriously either, eh?
I could have just as well commented, being an experienced engineer in powertrains, that there are also many who crusade on a favorite topic without wanting to consider other information.
So let's keep it on the lighter side for mutual enjoyment.

 

[Evguy1]

What I'd hate to see is a ~300 mile range, that requires both.

Most hybrids (range extenders) will run as long as there is fuel in the gas tank, possibly at a reduced output but will continue to operate. Pull in for a dougnut and coffee and the range extender gets a head a bit so your back up to full power.

 

[mcarey]

There's also such a thing as humor to lighten the tenseness a bit. Let's not be taking ourselves too seriously either, eh?
I could have just as well commented, being an experienced engineer in powertrains, that there are also many who crusade on a favorite topic without wanting to consider other information.
So let's keep it on the lighter side for mutual enjoyment.

I agree, and would love to hear your opinion backed by your education and experience in the field. And surely you can do so without adding in inflammatory political quips and jabs, I'd imagine, no? At then end of the day, it is a science...

This is why I don't want to see this thread locked.

Unfortunately, that line is fairly thin. It's easy to go from light hearted to inadvertently inflammatory to outright offensive. And I think the moderation team is more or less trying to just avoid treading those lines.

Most hybrids (range extenders) will run as long as there is fuel in the gas tank, possibly at a reduced output but will continue to operate. Pull in for a dougnut and coffee and the range extender gets a head a bit so your back up to full power.

That sounds pretty great, at this point, in my opinion.

 

[Evguy1]

I don't want to bore anyone with old EV history but I started an EV company in 1990. Our family car has been an EV ever since. In those early days we were happy with 25 miles range as it did most of our shopping needs. After a few years we were up to 50 miles range and that got exiting, we could go on short trips, car shows and longer range shopping. At the same time we were also electrifying larger trucks like the Isuzu NPR which we had done 60+ of them when I retired two years ago. Those were mostly on airports and ironically as aircraft refuelers. When we bought our 2019 Kia Soul EV and it has 125 miles range we feel like we can go anywhere. With the fast charging stations we can charge back up in under 30 minutes and since we're retired, life is never in a hurry so it works well. People who have not been involved in EV's for very long look at 200-500 miles range as limiting. We look at it as unbelievable. Back when we started in 1990 even 100 miles range was a dream. It's all matter of perspective.
I should note that I'm not a rabid EV evangelist, I don't have much to do with politics or care to. I have/had at least 6 trucks and Jeeps that I have converted to diesel engines and love them. I don't see fuel vehicles going away any time soon but they are getting more expensive to run as the cost of fuel goes up. I think as time marches on we will see a reversal where only the rich can afford to drive fuel vehicles and the rest of us will be driving cheap EV's. Diesel just hit $5/us gallon here this week so that's $160 to fill my RAM 1500 and will get me a little over 600 miles. My EV on the same $160 will go 4,300 miles.

 

[demonram]

Like it or not, electrification is the future. Maybe not today or tomorrow but eventually. Associated costs will decrease as economies of scale are achieved, just as with everything else. And the internal combustion engine will become a relic of the past. Pound for pound, the output of electric motors far exceeds that of IC engines. And it’s available on demand, no need to hit the “power band”. In fact, acceleration has to be governed in order to prevent damage to the drivetrain and/or maintain control.

Solar energy is the future. Our sun produces somewhere on the order of 3.4 yottawatts in perpetuity. That’s a million, billion, billion watts or 1W x 10 to the 24th power. Constantly. And it’ll be here long after we’re gone.

For ***** and giggles Google “Kardashev Scale”. According to this theory we are a type 1 civilization. Which means we’re still diving for energy.

For even ***** and giggles Google “Dyson Sphere”. All we need for this is to create self-replicating autonomous robots which is not as crazy as you might think.

Yes, the sun can provide electricity for millions of years, but to harness the that power will require fields of solar panels of enormous size, transmission lines connected to the grid, so while it may provide some power, unless scientists can figure out a way to capture that power efficiently, we still fall short. I read an article earlier this week about some machine that produces an enormous amount of electricity, similar to the sun, using fusion, but the machine can only be powered up for 5 seconds because of the heat it builds up. Plenty of power for a short burst, but to rely on something like that is still many years in the future. I do agree that at some point, all vehicles except some special use vehicles will be electric, we are not there and won't be until some genius comes along and figures it all out and makes electricity generation enough to provide the amount needed.

 

[demonram]

I agree, and would love to hear your opinion backed by your education and experience in the field. And surely you can do so without adding in inflammatory political quips and jabs, I'd imagine, no? At then end of the day, it is a science...

This is why I don't want to see this thread locked.

Unfortunately, that line is fairly thin. It's easy to go from light hearted to inadvertently inflammatory to outright offensive. And I think the moderation team is more or less trying to just avoid treading those lines.

That sounds pretty great, at this point, in my opinion.

I'm not an engineer or educated at the level you are, so I concede that you have the advantage there. I too don't want to have this discussion locked. Some back and forth on a topic can actually help to resolve some of the issues with a particular subject. My biggest issue is the availability of the electricity to meet the demands of an all electric vehicle world. I agree that at some point, all the problems with supply will be met, but that is some time out in the future. Sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention.

 

[Evguy1]

I agree that at some point, all the problems with supply will be met, but that is some time out in the future.

It will also still be some time out in the future when EV's will pass fuel vehicles in sales and even farther out when most vehicles will be EV's. I'm sure the two will grow in sync. No one knows the future so anything past yesterday is just speculation.

 

[mikeru]

I don't want to bore anyone with old EV history but I started an EV company in 1990. Our family car has been an EV ever since. In those early days we were happy with 25 miles range as it did most of our shopping needs. After a few years we were up to 50 miles range and that got exiting, we could go on short trips, car shows and longer range shopping. At the same time we were also electrifying larger trucks like the Isuzu NPR which we had done 60+ of them when I retired two years ago. Those were mostly on airports and ironically as aircraft refuelers. When we bought our 2019 Kia Soul EV and it has 125 miles range we feel like we can go anywhere. With the fast charging stations we can charge back up in under 30 minutes and since we're retired, life is never in a hurry so it works well. People who have not been involved in EV's for very long look at 200-500 miles range as limiting. We look at it as unbelievable. Back when we started in 1990 even 100 miles range was a dream. It's all matter of perspective.
I should note that I'm not a rabid EV evangelist, I don't have much to do with politics or care to. I have/had at least 6 trucks and Jeeps that I have converted to diesel engines and love them. I don't see fuel vehicles going away any time soon but they are getting more expensive to run as the cost of fuel goes up. I think as time marches on we will see a reversal where only the rich can afford to drive fuel vehicles and the rest of us will be driving cheap EV's. Diesel just hit $5/us gallon here this week so that's $160 to fill my RAM 1500 and will get me a little over 600 miles. My EV on the same $160 will go 4,300 miles.

I agree that at one time an EV with 125 mile range was amazing. I have a co-worker who commuted to work in an old Ford ****** that his college class converted to full electric. He lived about 45 miles away, and his car had about a 60 mile range in warm weather. He would drive it to work and plug it in. At the end of the work day he had enough charge to make it home. Eventually people at work started complaining that the company was basically paying for half his "fuel", and asked for fuel reimbursement for their cars too. Needless to say, the company had him stop charging his car at work and he stopped driving that car. The funny thing is he went from that car to a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 SRT-10 with the Viper engine.

I'm thinking that most people not familiar with EV history don't care that a 300 mile range is pretty amazing for an electric vehicle. They care that whatever EV they might buy has at least as much range as the gas powered car they're driving now. Once that happens I think more people will be open to buying one. Of course the other big obstacle is charging time, as mentioned many times throughout this thread.

 

[Evguy1]

That's funny, when I used to work as a marine mechanic and drive my converted Nissan truck to work I charged all day as well. After my boss mentioned it to me one day as unfair to others I started to put a dime on his desk every morning and never heard any more about it. About a year later I quit and started my EV busines. The whole speed of charging thing I find frustrating because the only time that comes into play is when your on a long distance trip. 95% of MOST peoples charging is done overnight at home. This overnight charging also HELPS the power grid level its load so at this point EV charging helps the grid.

 

[Evguy1]

They care that whatever EV they might buy has at least as much range as the gas powered car they're driving now.

This is another frustrating point, how many people actually burn a whole tank of fuel in a day on a regular basis. When on a holiday or other trip then range and speed of charge do play a role but for day to day driving neither of these are important if your charging at home. We and most people I know own two cars I think one of those cars should be electric at this point in time. The cost saving as I mentioned above are well worth it. We drive our fuel powered vehicle WAY less now that we have a "long range" EV. The EV is not the "second" car, its the primary car because it's so darn cheap to drive.

 

[mcarey]

You mean to say you don't use 50 gallons of diesel driving to work every day? That's preposterous.

Part of what I enjoy about this discussion is that outside of the obvious fringe-use faults of current EVs, such as having to tow heavy loads extremely long distances, it really boils down to "I don't like EVs".

Which I'd imagine is hard to defend if you have to explain why while also abiding to the rules of this thread. And, to me, that should be rather telling.

I can't wait to see the chatter when an EV truck that is identically capable to its sibling ICE trucks hit the market.

Also, very cool story about your business. Would love to know more, but recognize why you may not be apt to share too much.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Infrastructure is needed, and only the federal government is big enough to accelerate it on the scale required. Heck, they "gave" away the land for railroads (taken from Indians without compensation), among other infrastructure rights-of-way.

"Fast" charger infrastructure is needed. 240V single phase is the standard today, but 480V 3 phase is a very common voltage and could also be tapped to shorten charge times, not to mention higher voltages have fewer parasitic losses. 480V is as high as I would take it, as a new NEC voltage class starts above 600VAC, medium voltage, with its inherent higher hazards and corresponding costs.

120V single phase is too slow for a nationwide public grid network. It should be restricted to home and private use. Takes 7+ hours for recharges.

 

[Evguy1]

Also, very cool story about your business. Would love to know more, but recognize why you may not be apt to share too much.

I have no problem sharing, just didn't think it was relevant to the conversation. I started this in 1990 and sold it in 2016. https://canev.com/
They had three cars at SEMA this year with a cool V8 looking electric motor idea.