Pricing is out of control

[Docwagon1776]

No collusion...prices are way up for all manufacturers but Ram is MUCH higher than Chevy for comparable trucks both in MSRP and actual selling prices.

If I'd stayed with the 1/2 ton, I'd have bought the F-150 Tremor over the Ram 1500 Rebel. Ram used to be the value brand, excellent features for the money. Now I think they are last place in that regard. Still nice trucks, but too much $$$ comparatively. I couldn't find *any* Chevy or GMC dealers willing to play ball on a 1500 ZR2.

Nobody else makes an actual competitor to the Power Wagon, though.

 

[Ratman6161]

I think everyone is missing the BIG picture here. Prices have gone up..but the BIG BOYs in Corperate world are still making those 6-7 figure profit salaries. Come a time folks are going to have to say NO..do not buy..really ...and if you need to ....buy from a person to person sale not a dealership. It would take a conserted effort but the pressure with some media exposure might drop those STUPID price numbers...FYI went shopping for tire..some ordinary 275 60R20..researched around town...over $1700 best price..that is just robbery!

Ahhh....the fallacy of the fat cat CEO . You talk about 6 to 7 figure salaries. So for grins say it's $10 million. Ram sold 468344 trucks in 2022. So the CEO costs $21.35 per truck.

 

[RamGuy110]

I haven't been living under a rock, and I don't exaggerate either.

I believe Ram has had the most significant price increases on their trucks from 2022 to 2023 compared to the other manufacturers.

 

[RamGuy110]

No collusion...prices are way up for all manufacturers but Ram is MUCH higher than Chevy for comparable trucks both in MSRP and actual selling prices. Im comparing my 22 2500 Laramie purchased last Jan with the 24 Silverado LTZ with similar options. Between dealerndiscounts and Ram incentives I got about $6K off MSRP. But I had to get that much of a discount to bring it down to the MSRP of the Chevy. I went with the Ram because it fits in my garage. A crew cab standard box Chevy is a foot longer and wont fit.

For example, up in St. Cloud there was a 23' Ram 3500 Laramie, Level 1, HO, midnight, sunroof, air ride, bed liner. No other real options to speak of....missing many things. 93k. A fully loaded 24' Chevy High Country 3500 Duramax, 89k. You're pushing 100k with an equivalent Ram 3500 Laramie. Get into the Limiteds, you're over 100k. Many I've seen on lots at MSRP are close to 110k. Ridiculous.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Ahhh....the fallacy of the fat cat CEO . You talk about 6 to 7 figure salaries. So for grins say it's $10 million. Ram sold 468344 trucks in 2022. So the CEO costs $21.35 per truck.

Closer to $25 million most years for the CEO and COO. $17 million for the CFO. Etc.

Then let's not forget dividends. That's where a lot of the profit goes, after all. Who's holding those shares?

Some 300x the wage of their average worker. Without wandering into the forbidden zone of political discussion, that's a path to feudalism. You already see it creeping in. Note real estate prices. Note how much residential housing is being bought by corporations who, in turn, rent it back out. Not local landlords, multi-state conglomerates. Political and economic power consolidated into fewer and fewer hands is not compatible with a large and healthy middle class, which is itself a historical aberration.

 

[rule18]

Guys, after reading through a bunch of pages here I'm going to remind everyone to keep it civil and keep the politics out of it per Forum Rules.

 

[Dave Haddon]

So I was reflecting on the prices of Ram trucks and it occuirred to me back when we had dial phones, ( cira 1971)my first house cost $48K CDN. Back then I bought 68 Camaro SS 396 for $3600.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Thank you. The lab leaked virus was a windfall for Pfizer and others. I had to get the jab because of a Hawaii trip. I eventually got it but barely noticed any symptoms. Xi's Virus was bad ju ju regardless.

Nobody "Had" to get the jab. My buddy did.... now he has heart problems Cardio myelitis due to those jabs. He did it so he "could" fly.

I just can't see where it was/is worth it.

"He who will sacrifice freedom for comfort deserves neither" Benjamin Franklin

 

[Jane S]

So that means food is a shortage again? My grocery bill is up 125+ dollars a week lol.

I hope you don't like rice.

India imposes major rice export ban, triggering inflation fears

India on Thursday ordered a halt to its largest rice export category in a move that will roughly halve shipments by the world's largest exporter of the grain, triggering fears of further inflation on global food markets.

www.reuters.com

 

[Docwagon1776]

I hope you don't like rice.

India imposes major rice export ban, triggering inflation fears

India on Thursday ordered a halt to its largest rice export category in a move that will roughly halve shipments by the world's largest exporter of the grain, triggering fears of further inflation on global food markets.

www.reuters.com

If you live in the US, this is a non-issue. The type of rice that is now under export ban is not a type we import much of here. You can verify it yourself by looking at import/export reports. Almost all of what we import is Basmati and aromatics, which is specifically excluded from the ban. If you're in Africa, the Mid East, or Asian subcontinent you're in for a bad time, though. Don't care enough to research Canada's imports/exports.

Next question: could US growers now export more to make up the difference, creating more home shortages? I don't think so, given the cost of shipping and relatively lack of unspoken for cargo capacity to do so.

Short term you'll likely see a panic buy as lemmings react to the media's latest Chicken Little warnings and gut the local supermarket, but once they have the 50lb bag they'll never eat, it'll be back to norms.

 

[Docwagon1776]

"He who will sacrifice freedom for comfort deserves neither" Benjamin Franklin

Lulz, no. It's "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The quote is in a broader debate that is generally stripped out to twist it to make some libertarian point. It was about who had the authority to levee taxes, and how much, for the common defense of the colony vs "small parties of skulking murderers" on the frontier (aka, unfriendly Indians). I'll leave it at that so we don't wander in to politics.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&rdid=book-HptPAQAAIAAJ&rdot=1&pli=1 and see pg 99 if you'd like to read the actual quote and the context.

 

[Silver21Ram]

MSRP on my ‘16 Longhorn
View attachment 525138


MSRP on my ‘22 Longhorn
View attachment 525137

Damn, it took 6 years for highway miles per gallon to increase by 1. Only 1 mpg. 6 years. WoW !

 

[Atcer2018]

Lulz, no. It's "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The quote is in a broader debate that is generally stripped out to twist it to make some libertarian point. It was about who had the authority to levee taxes, and how much, for the common defense of the colony vs "small parties of skulking murderers" on the frontier (aka, unfriendly Indians). I'll leave it at that so we don't wander in to politics.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=HptPAQAAIAAJ&rdid=book-HptPAQAAIAAJ&rdot=1&pli=1 and see pg 99 if you'd like to read the actual quote and the context.

Lulz all you want in as much as Sherman doesn’t have the exact quote, your context of said quote is also a bit off. Franklin wrote a letter on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly berating the inability of the assembly to levee taxes against land owned by the Penn family to finance defense of frontier towns during the French and Indian War. Pennsylvania was a proprietary colony and the proprietary families appointed the governor. The governor appointed by the Penn family regularly vetoed taxes levied against Penn lands. The Penn family tried to offer a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly conceding it did not have the authority to tax said lands. I think we’d call it a bribe which Franklin felt was a great affront to the General Assembly’s ability to govern. If it is a Libertarian talking point to use the abbreviated or original quote as a cudgel for the liberty of many against the tyranny of a few so be it as the context of the original quote aptly fits.

 

[Shorn351]

I had a 2013 Ram 2500 LaramieI bought new in 2013. List 52,000. Paid 47,000. Used it in my business for 10 years. The end of April I just bought a 2022 leftover Ram 3500 dually Laramie night edition with ram air suspension. I am retiring next year. We are buying a new fifth wheel rv. List 92,000. Between dealer discount and rebates saved 10,000. Paid 82000. Standard output diesel. Was only buying if the price was right. Happy so far.

 

[jejb]

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I honestly can't rule this possibility out. In any event, I compared the two prices side-by-side, my 2021 big horn and a 2023 big horn and it's a straight 25% jump. $39k base to $49k base. Even if they added things as standard that were optional, there's no way it's $10k in additional items now standard.

I didn't mean any of the optional stuff that is now standard makes up the entire price difference. Only that it is a factor to consider.

Either way, I'm not going to be buying new again for a very long time since I'll just keep this truck until it stops running now.

Trucks aren't going to get cheaper while you drive yours into the ground. Sticker shock is only going to get worse. Start making payments to yourself now, into a savings account, to buy a new/newer truck when the time comes.

 

[jejb]

I have no clue who Granger or Mark Dodge are. I assume they're not even in my state. I have 3 dealers in my geographical area to choose from and they are all the same price.

I also live in Arkansas, and went with Granger up near Des Moines, IA. Yeah, I had to drive 6 hours to pick up my new truck, but I saved about 13% off MSRP. I tried to work with the local folks. Even had one tell me to go with Granger, as they couldn't touch the price or even guarantee the truck would ever show up. Didn't seem the least concerned about losing a sale.

 

[rule18]

I have no clue who Granger or Mark Dodge are. I assume they're not even in my state. I have 3 dealers in my geographical area to choose from and they are all the same price.

Mark Dodge (RF member @AnthonyRI ) is a Preferred Vendor with us, and has offered some pretty great deals to our members. https://www.ramforum.com/forums/mark-dodge.231/

 

[Docwagon1776]

Lulz all you want in as much as Sherman doesn’t have the exact quote, your context of said quote is also a bit off. Franklin wrote a letter on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly berating the inability of the assembly to levee taxes against land owned by the Penn family to finance defense of frontier towns during the French and Indian War. Pennsylvania was a proprietary colony and the proprietary families appointed the governor. The governor appointed by the Penn family regularly vetoed taxes levied against Penn lands. The Penn family tried to offer a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly conceding it did not have the authority to tax said lands. I think we’d call it a bribe which Franklin felt was a great affront to the General Assembly’s ability to govern. If it is a Libertarian talking point to use the abbreviated or original quote as a cudgel for the liberty of many against the tyranny of a few so be it as the context of the original quote aptly fits.

Right. So what do you think is different about "the inability to levee taxes" vs " who had the authority to levee taxes" and the more detailed account vs the materially same but abbreviated "for the common defense of the colony vs "small parties of skulking murderers" on the frontier (aka, unfriendly Indians)" ?

 

[AnthonyRI]

Mark Dodge (RF member @AnthonyRI ) is a Preferred Vendor with us, and has offered some pretty great deals to our members. https://www.ramforum.com/forums/mark-dodge.231/

Thanks for mention & link. For the first time buying out of state it can be hard to wrap one's head around but soon that will be continuing to become the norm. As large companies buy up smaller dealerships, and discount less (because they have to answer to shareholders, and will be under the false impression that they can dominate the market) it will become even more necessary.

Ordering a vehicle isn't for everyone - you've got to do some homework and you have to be patient. Sometimes very patient. But you will get the best price most of the time, that way. The other dealers mentioned in this thread, to my knowledge, do a very good job and seem to be standup operations. Some a little more clunky with paperwork and such than others, but are neck and neck on pricing.

Shipping from any of them to your home is probably about $1.00-$1.25 per mile. We get customers in northwest who still save by doing it this way. There may always be your local dealer who will honor your loyalty and work with you, but I'm certainly hearing a lot of horror stories about that loyalty only going one direction post-quarantimes.

 

[2019RamInSC]

In 2019 I bought a tub of margarine for $3. Today it is $13. It's that simple.
Gas was $1.75. Now $3.35. No mystery.
Who do you blame? No Mystery either.