replaced timing chain and gears, damper not at tdc

[Mr. Baseball]

I had a timing cover leak. While apart I replaced timing chain and gears with stock version. I followed procedure and lined dot in cam gear at 6 o'clock and crank at 12 o'clock and in line with center of cam bolt hole.

When installed timing cover and damper the damper was not at tdc on timing cover, a degree or two off. Is this from torquing cam bolt, slightly moving crank? Or was I off a tooth?

How do I correct problem, if there is one. I understand distributor needs adjustment with scan tool. I am concerned about my installation even though I used a straight edge to align marks on gears. It was tight and had to struggle getting it aligned and gears on since old chain was so stretched. I appreciate experience with this. Thanks.

Edit: I wasn't planning on new chain and gears until I saw how worn they were. I rotated til originals lined up then I replaced with new set following Haynes instructions. They went on without having to rotate cam. I am surprised I didn't have to adjust cam because old chain was so loose. My tdc is 0 and I didn't check, basically replaced just how they were. Will timing be retarded? I will check it when I know more about timing. Any information will be very helpful. I was only fixing coolant leak, I'm not a mechanic, just can't afford one. Oh, I'm sure damper was off mark from tightening cam bolt and/or crankshaft bolt.

If someone could explain how timing on my '98 5.2 works that would be great. I read Haynes but not quite understanding. I hope to know before I reassemble anymore. Thanks again. Also I don't have a tensioner.

 

[Saltillo Express]

Hey buddy. I know the feeling of not being able to afford a mechanic.

The only way to be sure is to go back around and do it again. Do you recall where the dampener was when you pulled it? That series truck sets the timing itself off the crankshaft positioning sensor (which is on the back passenger side of the block) and the camshaft positioning sensor (which is inside the distributor). You cannot rotate the distributor right or left to advance or retard the timing unfortunately.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

After much research and checking tdc I think I found my answer. I am 2nd owner. Had broken motor mount bolt, transmission mount, bent power steering pulley, and just found broken bolt in intake manifold. I obviously bought a truck that was in some type of accident. I believe my timing mark off couple degrees is bad balancer.

I will pull and go over again, thank you. Have you heard of bad balancers? I've read the outer ring can slip. Mine seems solid but everything I'm finding is bad. Driver side motor to trans strut gone too.

 

[PCA4208]

Haynes manual wont be helpful with this. You may have to go to like a Barnes and noble and see if they have a book called "rebuilding small block mopar" that will help way more than the Haynes.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Thank you. I apologize for being frustrated but with every fix I find a new problem. If I didn't do complete coolant drain and fill and got the leaks I wouldn't have found the problems I have. I appreciate the advice. And to think how proud I was to get both block coolant drain bolts out! I have no choice but to continue fixes so all advice is welcome. Thanks for responses, calmed me down. How am I gonna get intake off and extract broken bolt? One fix at a time, I know...

 

[PCA4208]

Get one of those bolt extractor kits. If you take your time, do it right, and soak it in penetrating oil, it'll come out. If not a machine shop will have to do it. And you DON'T want that.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Thank you. When I get intake off, hopefully not breaking any bolts, I will soak twice a day with penetrating oil for few days and use extractor carefully. Instructions are loosen 1/4 turn at a time til finger loose and replace all bolts. $32 for set. You're right, don't want to have to pay machine shop.

Not raining so today am going to rotate crank to 0° tdc and remove distributor cap and see where rotor pointing. When I removed original timing set I first rotated to get marks lined up then removed gears and chain and installed new without moving anything. My concern was when back together mark on damper was couple degrees off on timing cover mark. I didn't set to tdc before removing because I wasn't planning on new chain and gears. I did mark everything for reinstallation but accidentally cleaned mark off timing cover. Lesson learned. I'll know if ok by tonight. Either good or have to correct then start on intake. Thank you.

Just reread that and I guess marks wouldn't matter because I rotated crank with chain still on when apart but think should have been right at 0° when put cover and damper back on since gears were lined up at 6 and 12. I may be over thinking this timing issue.

 

[PCA4208]

I have a book on small block MOPARS. It goes into detail about everything. Including timing, let me check it for you to see what it says about the points.

 

[PCA4208]

Alright so in my book it says that the timing points can line up at two points. TDC exhaust stroke and TDC firing. What you want is TDC firing. Take off the valve cover on the right side and rotate the engine to where the #1 cylinder has both of its valves closed. Line up the points as best you can. Then put on the front cover, and install the damper to where it should line up with the 0 degree marks. You can also advance timing if you'd like at this time. But it's not mandatory.

That's about the same as what the book said, of course I simplified it though. Also take out the spark plugs in order to rotate the engine easier.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Thank you so much. I rotated to 0° mark and removed distributor cap. Rotor pointing at #6. I'm starting to understand #1 and #6 fire same but want to make sure on compression not exhaust? So I can check by removing #1 plug and use screwdriver and rotate crank to confirm tdc on compression? (Rotor point at #1 when #1 piston tdc). Just trying avoid new valve cover gaskets. Will if have to, I understand that method now but trying save money. Thanks again.

 

[PCA4208]

Well since the cam runs on a 2:1 gear. When 1 is at TDC firing, 6 is at TDC exhaust. Thus the 4 stroke system. So yeah you just have the damper on the wrong stroke. You can also turn it with your finger on the spark plug hole until compression blows off your finger. Then just find if the damper is near 0 and adjust accordingly.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

I know now I should have checked #1 tdc firing by removing valve cover and checking before replacing timing chain and gears. I didn't rotate cam or crank with chain and gears off, just removed old and installed new (I rotated while together to line up marks tho). If rotor pointing at #6 with damper mark at 0° then #1 is tdc exhaust. Yea or nay? I THINK I'm good. If I rotate crank 360° so rotor points at #1 then #1 will be tdc firing. Yea or nay? Thanks again. Since pistons hit both tdc's screwdriver method won't help much. Again I think I'm over thinking.

 

[PCA4208]

Based on what you said you should be good. As long as you didn't rotate the cam while the gear was off you're good too. But even then it still has a key to locate the gear. So yeah rotate 360 until points line up. Or have a buddy hold his finger on the plug hole while doing it and you should hear the air pushing up his finger. If you need to adjust the distributor, you can always pull it out and reposition it until it points to #1 while the piston is at TDC.

I hope I can help you out. I may be 16 but I know my **** about these motors somewhat. Haha

 

[Mr. Baseball]

I got your reply after I replied. Big sigh of relief. Will do check tho. Was basic OE replacement timing set. Only had 1 way to put on, no 4° advance or retard but I guess there are ways to do that. I'm not that mechanically inclined. Just want to fix my truck. Thanks for all your help. I am starting disassembly for intake removal soon and hope you'll be available.

 

[PCA4208]

I don't work so I will be haha.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Me neither. Retired. Haha. Thanks for helping me. Please check this thread when you can. I know I'm gonna need more help. I appreciate all your help and knowledge.

 

[PCA4208]

No problem man!

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Okay I got chance to pull #1 plug. Finger didn't reach because of spark plug heat shield so I balled up piece of paper towel, put it in plastic sandwich bag, then carefully pushed down to plug hole leaving plastic to hold on to. I was able to rotate crank while finger on my "plug" and yes it pushed out from air compression!

Thanks again. Now I know I'm at correct timing. #1 tdc compression with rotor pointing at #1 and damper timing mark at 0°. I had stripped screw in distributor recently and brought to a shop. So other than me replacing timing chain and gears I didn't know if distributor was off 180° (think would have backfired or not run if it was off). Thanks to your help and others too I know all good. Now can continue to disconnect everything from intake to remove and get at broken bolt, leaking coolant from passenger side front corner of intake where bolt is broken. I may start discussion on that issue, either way I'll be asking for advice again. Really appreciate your help.

 

[PCA4208]

Glad you figured it out. And I'm here to help.

 

[Mr. Baseball]

Thank you. Just looking to all the stuff on manifold. Dam! At least there is relief valve on fuel rail but gonna need colored tape and permanent markers plus take lots of pictures so I can put it back together! Gonna take me long time, I'm not that great shape these days. Plus last time I did a manifold it was on '70 Challenger over 20 years ago.