Rusting Front fenders on 2013 Ram 1500 Big Horn

[Swerve64]

You can give a call to hwy 11 chrysler, talk to dale paradis. he is the service manager. very helpful guy and can point you in the right direction.

whatever you do do not go to 400 chrysler or barrie chrysler. worst experience ever

No, no matter what it has to be perforation (a hole) and nothing else and the only acceptable repair is full panel replacement. Start building a case with a thread of people who have had the problem on any perforated panels, document who and how they were successful with replacements and who did not. It doesn't mater what dealer was helpful or not as that's not the issue. Mopar prior to to FCA has a track record of replacing Aspen /Volare fenders, first Gen Ram doors and sub frames and many more once they are pushed. They never volunteer until pushed. Search the other forums and the net for complaints and remember it's just going to get worse and end up looking the the Gen 2 box sides.

Get on them and keep on them, I had the same issue with an 11 and several dealers ****** me around until it was "out of warranty", I've since traded the truck in with 26000 miles (yes, 26K) on an 18, the dealer I traded it in to immediately got it in his body shop and replaced the fender so he could move the truck quick. In hindsight I think I liked my 11 better than the 18.

JUSTIN- my bighorn is 2012 and also has the same mileage-70,000kms -you have a right to be pissed -a truck that new should not have any rust other than the usual undercarriage and driveshaft. I also Krown mine yearly and luckly I don't see any paint bubbles, that's not to say I may find some in the spring-in which case I also would be very pissed off and I would expect at the very least some acknowledgement from RAM. I don't know how you should proceed with this ,but after seeing the pictures of the paint'BLISTERING' I really hope that RAM will do right by you!!--Keep us posted.

Hey guys, sorry for not replying sooner to this thread. I have been crazy busy dealing with other vehicle issues, namely snow tire swaps and addressing a front end clunk in my son's 08 Malibu. Christmas shopping,,,I haven't even began to thought about that yet!
Anyways, I called another dealer hoping to speak with the owner that I know just a tiny bit but for whatever reason, he has not called me back yet, and that was over a week ago now.
I was hoping to hear from him first before I called the 1-800 number but I guess I'll have to go it alone.
I am hoping to call today and just plead my case that my truck is barely out of warranty and only has 70,000 kms on it and has been rust proofed since new. I am unsure if they will give me a case number and tell me anything other than go pound salt, but I have to do it nonetheless. I sprayed and resprayed all under the fenders again but you can clearly see, going through via the front door when it is open, a piece of foam glue/adhered to the inner fenders on both sides. The inner fenders are also clearly coated with previous Rust Check and Krown product but it's obvious they didn't penetrate this foam piece enough to stop this bubbling/rust from happening.
I also got another coat of wax on the outside in a futile attempt to preserve rusting/bubbling but I know it likely won't do much, if anything, to stop it from progressing further.
The thing that gets me most about this issue, is Ram/FCA know about it but they won't do anything about it unless it is under warranty. I wish there was a class action suit or something similar currently as I'd hop on immediately. I have no idea how to start one myself but I will continue to look/dig further into it.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and tips and replying to this thread. It has been a great help and is reassuring knowing others out there can sympathize/relate to my issues.

Thanks again!

 

[likes2build]

It is the foam that traps the moisture / dirt / salt and causes the perfect environment for corrosion. If you look at a Gen 3 with really large box side rot holes you will see the large intact chunks of foam that caused the corrosion. It will happen in other areas without foam but is most prevalent in foamed areas.
Those are definitely not paint bubbles they are perforated metal areas from the inside out.

 

[Swerve64]

It is the foam that traps the moisture / dirt / salt and causes the perfect environment for corrosion. If you look at a Gen 3 with really large box side rot holes you will see the large intact chunks of foam that caused the corrosion. It will happen in other areas without foam but is most prevalent in foamed areas.
Those are definitely not paint bubbles they are perforated metal areas from the inside out.

I agree! I can't believe Ram/FCA still does this, but I have heard of some with the foam and others without it.

I just called the 1-800 number and was told, because my time warranty had expired, not my kms part, that there was nothing they could do.
I told the guy I am just out of the warranty period by a few months but I am less than half, with 70,000 kms on the truck, of their 160,000 km part of it.

I told the guy there has to be some type of Goodwill on their part because of this well known problem, plus I told him the truck has been rust proofed/well taken care of since new and there is zero rust on any other part of truck.

I also told him fenders are backordered and my dealer is also way behind fixing these so it is a well known, documented issue that FCA is clearly aware of.

He gave me a case file and said to have a nice day. I am not done chasing this issue yet but I'd like some info/ammo on how to proceed. Better business bureau, class action suit, anything on how to put pressure on FCA to come good for this.

Not happy here at all!! I got rid of my 09 GMC Sierra due to issues, not rust related, so I wasn't expecting to deal with something like this on a fairly new vehicle that shouldn't be happening.

 

[likes2build]

Start building a file and document it with the days, dates, times, names of people you spoke with from the start. Do as much emailing for paper records as possible. And if your local laws allowing recording conversations install ACR phone recording app or something like it on your phone and forward the calls to your email and down the recordings to your computer. I know the last part sounds crazy but it's important as long as it's legal. Also search the web and other forums for people with similar problems. If the fenders are back-ordered due to them being consumed in large quantities for warranty claims then that serves as part evidence that FCA acknowledges the problem. They just hope as it is in your case that vehicles will be even a day or a mile out of warranty.
There is a thing called "out of warranty customer goodwill warranty claims", either for full or partial coverage.

Be polite, be persistent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chrisbh17]

Time is money so I wouldnt expect a Krown or Fluid Film installer to pull the wheel well liners, but thats what I do when rust proofing. Then the (probably useless?) foam doesnt get in the way because you are spraying directly against the problem spots on the fenders.

Ive pondered removing the foam from my truck but am not sure what (if any) purpose it actually serves. Especially in the front fenders because it seems to flop around so easily.

 

[Bee1971]

I agree with Chris , no way in hell these rustproofers are pulling the plastic wheel well liners

That would cost to much on labor


The foam piece is just an air dam behind the front doors , you can have it out in seconds with the wheel liners pulled - You can see the foam piece in this picture where the body line runs up between the door and fender - It just sits in place

Now

However this epoxy coated fiberglass mesh piece actually strengthens the front fenders from behind

That’s where your corrosion starts , between this mesh piece and your actual fender - And it isn’t coming off , unless you have a blow torch and a grinder LOL - It is adhered to the fender for added strength and it is permanent , it’s not foam and it’s rock hard

That’s why the front fenders must get replaced

Mine has been sprayed with Fluid Film more then once

 

[Swerve64]

Start building a file and document it with the days, dates, times, names of people you spoke with from the start. Do as much emailing for paper records as possible. And if your local laws allowing recording conversations install ACR phone recording app or something like it on your phone and forward the calls to your email and down the recordings to your computer. I know the last part sounds crazy but it's important as long as it's legal. Also search the web and other forums for people with similar problems. If the fenders are back-ordered due to them being consumed in large quantities for warranty claims then that serves as part evidence that FCA acknowledges the problem. They just hope as it is in your case that vehicles will be even a day or a mile out of warranty.
There is a thing called "out of warranty customer goodwill warranty claims", either for full or partial coverage.

Be polite, be persistent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't believe we are allowed to record messages legally? I will document everything as you say and not give up. I hoping to find something somewhere where someone has dealt with this outside of warranty. Being as my kms are so low, I would assume they would at least cover half as a Goodwill gesture, but I got nothing. I am sure it is due to how much money they are currently spending on this issue, and nothing more.

Time is money so I wouldnt expect a Krown or Fluid Film installer to pull the wheel well liners, but thats what I do when rust proofing. Then the (probably useless?) foam doesnt get in the way because you are spraying directly against the problem spots on the fenders.

Ive pondered removing the foam from my truck but am not sure what (if any) purpose it actually serves. Especially in the front fenders because it seems to flop around so easily.

I looked through the door into the fender area and all I have I believe is the piece of glued foam/mesh and nothing else. I was able to push aside the small foam piece between the door and fender and there was nothing there impeding my vision directly into the fender. This truck has been well undercoated since new and when I looked in that area, it was clear to see the inner fender was completely covered with Krown and/or Rust Check product. The foam/mesh piece stops the product from getting in behind it and I have heard, getting this piece off is almost impossible?

I agree with Chris , no way in hell these rustproofers are pulling the plastic wheel well liners

That would cost to much on labor


The foam piece is just an air dam behind the front doors , you can have it out in seconds with the wheel liners pulled

However this epoxy coated fiberglass mesh piece actually strengthens the front fenders from behind

That’s where your corrosion starts , between this and your fender - And it isn’t coming off , unless you have a blow torch and a grinder LOL

That’s why the front fenders must get replaced

Mine has been sprayed with Fluid Film more then once

View attachment 147737

I believe that is the only piece have behind my fenders? I could clearly see in there when I opened the front door and had a look. There was a piece that ran at the back of the fender between it and the door but I believe it was a long strip only?

After I sprayed more in there, I could see it but I could also easily prior to me spraying in there that it was well covered from previous applications over the years. The products, imo, will not get in behind this glue/epoxied foam/mesh.

It's a crappy design and I am sure FCA/Ram is regretting it bigtime putting those pieces in there!

Thanks for your help everyone. I have not given up and won't until I have exhausted all options.

 

[chrisbh17]

It sounds crazy but I wonder if we're better off pulling the fenders completely, pressure washing the whole back side of the fender (especially around the edges of that fiberglass/mesh thing) *then* applying rustproofing, or maybe even something like RustBullet or POR15.

 

[tomb]

I had no idea there was foam or whatever In the front fender-Krown drills holes on the door and the ones directed to the front fender but if they are packed with a filler of some sort then obviously that Krown protection is not going to get to where it is going to protect the front fender. If Ram needed something to add strength or support to the fenders then they should have added aluminum braces in places where there is the largest unsupported sheet metal. To add a material that holds water (salt water probably) is just crazy. I would prefer that they just left the whole void empty at that rate.

 

[likes2build]

Just leave it empty as tomb said, to add an aluminum reinforcement to steel would be even more disastrous. If that piece of mesh that Bee1971 showed a picture of is in all the front fenders and it's absorbent there's no help for owners that live in the wet / salt areas (cold or warm).

 

[Bee1971]

I saved this picture years ago

My 2011 didn’t have this sound deadening pad - I don’t know what year Ram this picture is from

I also don’t know if certain trucks got these pads or not , but if they did , man what a moisture holder

I was also told certain years again , might have crap like this in the rear quarters - Again my 2011 did not

I am glad I pulled my wheel well liners when the truck was brand new , sprayed fluid film because if I would have found crap like that , it would have been removed instantly

 

[likes2build]

View attachment 147755 I saved this picture years ago

My 2011 didn’t have this sound deadening pad - I don’t know what year Ram this picture is from

I also don’t know if certain trucks got these pads or not , but if they did , man what a moisture holder

I was also told certain years again , might have crap like this in the rear quarters - Again my 2011 did not

I am glad I pulled my wheel well liners when the truck was brand new , sprayed fluid film because if I would have found crap like that , it would have been removed instantly

OMG what the HELL is that !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must weight about 30lbs wet and never dry out?????????????

 

[Swerve64]

It sounds crazy but I wonder if we're better off pulling the fenders completely, pressure washing the whole back side of the fender (especially around the edges of that fiberglass/mesh thing) *then* applying rustproofing, or maybe even something like RustBullet or POR15.

OMG what the HELL is that !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must weight about 30lbs wet and never dry out?????????????

I don't believe my Ram has that big piece of insulation that Bee posted either but it's odd that I have rusting issues coming through above/around my Hemi badge? I know I have those other pieces, like what was posted on pg3, (pic below) as I can see those while looking in there.
How hard is it to take off/remove those inner fenders? Are they just installed using those push plugs or are there screws/bolts as well? It is suppose to warm up a bit Sunday so I may tackle it then just to have a look to make sure? I will also spray the heck out them once I have those inner fenders removed. I wrote Pat Foran from CTV news who does a Consumer Alert type show every night on the news but like it reads, due to a large number of requests, my issue might not be looked at? I am obviously hoping to hear from him, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[chrisbh17]

The plastic inner fender wells? Piece of cake.

There are 2 or 3 of those plastic push pins depending on which side. Other than that its just a bunch of 8mm head bolts. IIRC they are all the same length so just remove them.

I broke a couple of the push pins so you might want to have spares on hand. The fender well stays in place just fine without them, but for OCD sake I would expect to replace any broken ones immediately.

This also goes for the rear as well, important so that you can shoot Fluid Film/Krown/whatever up into the "wheel well above the wheel well", which is another common area to rust (and not just on RAMs, basically every pickup truck ever).

 

[Swerve64]

The plastic inner fender wells? Piece of cake.

There are 2 or 3 of those plastic push pins depending on which side. Other than that its just a bunch of 8mm head bolts. IIRC they are all the same length so just remove them.

I broke a couple of the push pins so you might want to have spares on hand. The fender well stays in place just fine without them, but for OCD sake I would expect to replace any broken ones immediately.

This also goes for the rear as well, important so that you can shoot Fluid Film/Krown/whatever up into the "wheel well above the wheel well", which is another common area to rust (and not just on RAMs, basically every pickup truck ever).

Yes, the inner fender wells.

I didn't think there were be much to it but thought I'd better ask in case there were any surprises? I'll remove the wheels as well as I am sure that will give me a lot more room.

Hopefully I find something obvious in there that will stop further issues but I am betting my problems are due to that stuck on insulation/foam piece like Bee posted. I forget if I read it here, but I heard that is a bear to remove?

Thanks for the info, Chris.

 

[chrisbh17]

I honestly never saw that stuck on piece but I havent looked up in there. I just removed the fender liners and used a 90 degree nozzle to spray with Corrosion Free.

No need to remove the wheels unless you want to, the liners come out OK without doing so. BUT watch for the harnesses that go to the speed sensors...they are plastic-pinned into the engine compartment side of the liner, so you'll need to push the pins back out through the wheel well side or else you cant completely remove the liner.

You might even be able to just leave it all connected and still get in there, but I removed them completely just to be sure. Ive honestly never had the wheels off of my truck for the front or rear fender liner removal. I might need to in the near future....when I sprayed CF up there apparently I killed one of my horns. Of course only the high note one works right now, so the truck sounds like a clown vehicle when you hit the horn.

 

[indept]

Paint bubbles are not a hole , and it’s been discussed a million times before

However a GOOD DEALER can trump most


Warranty - As mentioned earlier

Clearly states HOLES



B. What's Covered
This warranty covers the cost of all parts and labor
needed to repair or replace any sheet metal panels that
get holes from rust or other corrosion.

So in the pictures of bubbles above, if it was my truck and me being the curious person I am, I would push my finger (or a harder object) enough to dislodge any loose rust and leave a rusty hole. Not that I'm saying you should do anything unethical, just an investigational type probing which would uncover the type of problem the warranty states.

 

[PoMansRam]

The issue with any of this "foam" that's external to the truck and can come in contact with the outside elements is it's potential to trap stuff between the foam and the panel? This "foam" itself cannot become saturated with moisture. The material doesn't absorb.

The stuff that's adhered to the inside of panels is on there so well, you can't remove it without destroying the panel. I don't think anything is getting in between there. Same concept as rust happening under your Line-X. How's that going to happen?

 

[Swerve64]

I honestly never saw that stuck on piece but I havent looked up in there. I just removed the fender liners and used a 90 degree nozzle to spray with Corrosion Free.

No need to remove the wheels unless you want to, the liners come out OK without doing so. BUT watch for the harnesses that go to the speed sensors...they are plastic-pinned into the engine compartment side of the liner, so you'll need to push the pins back out through the wheel well side or else you cant completely remove the liner.

You might even be able to just leave it all connected and still get in there, but I removed them completely just to be sure. Ive honestly never had the wheels off of my truck for the front or rear fender liner removal. I might need to in the near future....when I sprayed CF up there apparently I killed one of my horns. Of course only the high note one works right now, so the truck sounds like a clown vehicle when you hit the horn.

I removed the drivers side wheel and partially removed the inner fender just to give me enough room to have a look in there. Once in, this is all I seen, which temporarily removed to ensure it wasn't causing harm. (pic below) Mine didn't have that big piece that Bee posted but it was as plain as day to see the stuck on piece. It was hard to tack pics due to lighting but my piece looks identical to Bee's other pic, only mine is white, which leaves me to believe, these pieces are stuck on before paint. Judging from the area this piece covers, it is also clear to see that this piece is causing the corrosion issues as, based on the size of it, the rust and bubbling is not outside this area but clearly within it. I felt the side of it to see if I could somehow peel it off but it is stuck on there like no tomorrow!

So in the pictures of bubbles above, if it was my truck and me being the curious person I am, I would push my finger (or a harder object) enough to dislodge any loose rust and leave a rusty hole. Not that I'm saying you should do anything unethical, just an investigational type probing which would uncover the type of problem the warranty states.

Without knowing for sure if I am ever going to get this fixed, I am going to leave well enough alone for now, especially with the onset of winter coming. I don't want gaping holes in my my fender allowing rain, snow, salt and slush to get in there. I still don't think, because my warranty just expired, that I'd be covered anyways?

The issue with any of this "foam" that's external to the truck and can come in contact with the outside elements is it's potential to trap stuff between the foam and the panel? This "foam" itself cannot become saturated with moisture. The material doesn't absorb.

The stuff that's adhered to the inside of panels is on there so well, you can't remove it without destroying the panel. I don't think anything is getting in between there. Same concept as rust happening under your Line-X. How's that going to happen?

I hear what you are saying but it is clear that this piece that is glued/epoxied to the inner fender is causing all these problems. Many forums have peeps talking about this piece and all those also have rust/bubbling in the areas where this piece is applied. I read on another forum that it's possible these pieces were originally wet themselves or the fenders quite possibly could have been? Seems like a stretch but something, moisture related, is definitely causing these issues. I sprayed the heck out of the areas again but it was so plain to see that both my inner fenders were already coated byt previous applications of Krown and Rust Check. Not one spot anywhere was dry/uncoated so it's clear that these products cannot penetrate this piece of insulation/foam, or whatever it is?

 

[Bee1971]

Pictures before I sprayed fluid film years ago

I can state for a fact

While running my hands across this fiberglass mesh patch when new , whatever adhesive was used to attach it to the backside of the fenders for strength is permanent and very strong

However you could feel air pockets , or soft spots in the patch itself , just small fine areas like either the adhesive was missed in spots or didn’t adhere to the fender

Got me thinking if

A) Moisture could have or get trapped in those spots

B) Condensation