Safe to use netural with 4th gen 8 speed?

[Grad12]

Hey guys, I'm learning new techniques and driving styles for mileage. Yes, I know, "then why did you buy a full sized truck?" Well, I want the big vehicle, I tow, I haul, I need a 4x4 for Canadian winters and love the power for having fun. I bought the v6 because it is versatile. Mostly though, as a daily driver for all other tasks I drive my truck in fuel sipping mode because nobody is rich enough to pay for that gas! (1.30$ average around here in Canada)

I know that for most older vehicles poping it in neutral to coast is ok for the transmission. I am a little concerned about putting my ram in neutral to coast because of the new 8 speed with electronic gears. I am unsure if the truck is meant to do this or if it will hurt the transmission.

Any information is appreciated.

 

[loveracing1988]

It will not hurt anything but it will actually hurt your mileage. When you coast the computer will shut off the fuel and leave the torque converter locked to keep the engine spinning. Doing this save a little bit of fuel, if you put it in neutral you are cutting that off and going to waste fuel.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

When the computer shuts off fuel, it's essentially using the engine as a brake. You lose a lot of momentum that way, especially as it downshifts.

Now, it will use fuel in the sense that the idling engine will need some small amount of fuel, but you'll also coast further.

Truthfully, it may or may not change your mileage. It probably depends more on your driving style than anything else.

I'd just leave it in drive. That's what I do.

 

[skHemi64]

This link for fuel mileage tips.

100+ Hypermiling / ecodriving tips & tactics for better mpg - EcoModder.com

With today's automatics, they coast forever in gear so there is not much to be gained. The danger going from D to N is that you could accidentally go to R, although "some" vehicles require the brake pedal to be depressed to go into R. You can save a little by going to N when at a stop. It takes horsepower and fuel keeping it in D at a stop vice going to N.

I would concentrate your efforts on driving technique such as anticipating green/red lights (vehicles stopped in cross traffic can be red light triggers), coasting A LOT when coming to a stop, accelerate downhills then gradually decel'ing uphills (opposite of cruise control), driving just under the speed limit or even a bit more if no one is around. This should be enough to make a big impact.

 

[Grad12]

I feel as though when the truck is gearing down on hills it is stopping my acceleration and essentially decelerating me down the hill; at the very least I use it there. In my opinion and I could be very wrong, putting it in neutral bring the rpm's down to below 1000, therefore using less gas than in gear at 1500 rpm.

What do you think?

 

[loveracing1988]

I feel as though when the truck is gearing down on hills it is stopping my acceleration and essentially decelerating me down the hill; at the very least I use it there. In my opinion and I could be very wrong, putting it in neutral bring the rpm's down to below 1000, therefore using less gas than in gear at 1500 rpm.

What do you think?

In gear at 1500 rpm on decel is using zero fuel so running at 1000 rpm will use more fuel.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

In gear at 1500 rpm on decel is using zero fuel so running at 1000 rpm will use more fuel.

Doesn't change change the fact that the engine is acting as a brake when engaged to the transmission though.

 

[Grad12]

It will not hurt anything but it will actually hurt your mileage. When you coast the computer will shut off the fuel and leave the torque converter locked to keep the engine spinning. Doing this save a little bit of fuel, if you put it in neutral you are cutting that off and going to waste fuel.

I guess I will just go back to doing so on downhills. I appreciate the answer btw. Are there anymore opinions on popping the truck back from neutral into gear? I guess I'm asking more at high speeds, crusing speed, that kind of thing. We have many hills in midwestern Ontario.

Thanks again guys.

 

[skHemi64]

With a stick shift I still prefer neutral coasting to DFCO. DFCO works great if your RPMS are up there - above 3k - but I rarely drive that high. I did do some neutral coasting hypermiling with various auto trannys and although there was a very little increase in fuel mileage, it wasn't worth all the work. If you were in a fuel mileage competition, then pull out all the stops - but for daily driving, general purpose, I'd be happy with the minimal loss of fuel economy for the sake of driveability.

 

[toofart]

When the computer shuts off fuel, it's essentially using the engine as a brake. You lose a lot of momentum that way, especially as it downshifts.

Now, it will use fuel in the sense that the idling engine will need some small amount of fuel, but you'll also coast further.

That is true.

If you want to coast further, and no gas would give you too much braking, just press a bit on the gas to coast. Then you can completely let off and use the engine braking and save fuel. That will be more efficient than coasting in neutral, where fuel is being burned for absolutely nothing.

 

[gsw_03]

That is true.

If you want to coast further, and no gas would give you too much braking, just press a bit on the gas to coast. Then you can completely let off and use the engine braking and save fuel. That will be more efficient than coasting in neutral, where fuel is being burned for absolutely nothing.

So idling in neutral uses more fuel that coasting in gear? I have often wondered if there was fuel to be saved by avoiding the downshifts and RPM increases while coasting down big hills in gear, but I assumed neutral at idle was always more efficient than drive at any speed. Very interesting...

 

[Mega-Hemi]

Roadshow: Downhill in neutral is illegal and dumb, and a lot of drivers do it - San Jose Mercury News

Where in Canada are you? It's illegal in some areas up there too.

BC Motor Vehicle Act. 197
Coasting down grade

 

[toofart]

So idling in neutral uses more fuel that coasting in gear? I have often wondered if there was fuel to be saved by avoiding the downshifts and RPM increases while coasting down big hills in gear, but I assumed neutral at idle was always more efficient than drive at any speed. Very interesting...

I don't know... all I know is that if coasting in neutral (with the engine idling) was more fuel efficient than shutting of fuel when your foot is commanding that (off the gas), manufacturers would do it.

Hell, RAM installed shutters in the grill to get 1% economy.

The way I see it -- when my foot is off the gas, I are using zero fuel. If I want to coast just a bit further, I just press a bit I'm in control of the pedal.

 

[Andy578]

as long as you aren't in tow/haul it doesn't down shift for quite a bit when coasting

 

[Crianor]

I have a 2014 with the 6 speed and put it in neutral on all inclines and when I am approaching stop signs and lights. I think you would have to install one of those hyper miler computers to get an accurate reading. That being said, there was an article online from one of the reputable magazines and they hyper miled over 1200 miles on a single tank. And I do know they used neutral whenever they could.

I would be curious to see what is better coasting at 60 mph with the engine at rpm compared to shifting to neutral with the engine at 500 rpm. Also, in a gasser the engine is always using fuel. Coasting at speed or shifting to neutral still uses fuel.

 

[Core Attitude]

I would suggest you read some of the hypermiling forums and buy yourself a good computer like a scan gauge. I have one in every vehicle I own. The forums are a wealth of information and they are really helpful as to what is safe for which vehicle etc.

For years I hypermiled my automatic Toyota to over 45mpg and never had a single issue. The friend who has it now is too lazy to do it and gets about 30mpg. Driving for mileage is a lot of work in the beginning, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes second nature.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[skHemi64]

Core Attitude. Well said.

I too have Scangauge IIs in all my vehicles. It pays for itself in a month or two so why not? Instant MPG feedback I think is very important. I have a 67 mile one-way commute to work so getting good fuel mileage, as well as being able to haul/tow stuff, is very important.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

Roadshow: Downhill in neutral is illegal and dumb, and a lot of drivers do it - San Jose Mercury News

Where in Canada are you? It's illegal in some areas up there too.

BC Motor Vehicle Act. 197
Coasting down grade

Illegal here in Saskatchewan. Too lazy to dig up the specific MVA reference, but I know it's there.

 

[jp19914]

Would you not risk burning up the transmission due to the wheel speed being higher but the oil pump that is engine driven being slower than its supposed to?

 

[Crianor]

Well, I stand corrected on the gas usage all the time thing. Turns out modern fuel injection turns off the fuel when coasting. I don't think it pits to bed the question though. To stay at sped you have to feather the gas on and off, or the engine will slowly drag off speed. So in reality, the fuel is going from a zero state to an on state over and over.

As to the unsafe bit, most collisions are caused by excessive speed, distracted driving, and following to closely. I am sure people have caused collisions because they were in neutral, but I wold say it is a low risk behaviour.