Starting Conundrum

[Aurelius]

Thanks, Wild One; I look forward to reviewing what you sent.

 

[Burla]

That is a great question, and no you cant easily use push button without win, because Win has to read in on position for hot wire to work. There is two functions of win, prepare truck for start and actually spin the starter, your issue if it is win is the later, but you still need the former.

 

[Aurelius]

Wild One, Thanks for the video!! I want the push button even if it proves not to be the WIN Module!

 

[Adamcr68]

In case your googly skills are absent...

If your vehicle's starter keeps spinning after the engine starts, it often indicates a problem with the starter solenoid or the electrical system, possibly a faulty WIN module, and could lead to damage if not addressed.

Here's a breakdown of potential causes and steps to troubleshoot:


Possible Causes:

• Faulty Starter Solenoid:
  The solenoid is responsible for engaging the starter motor, and a sticking or failing solenoid can cause the starter to continue running.
  
  
• Corroded or Damaged Wiring:
  Check the positive and negative cables to the starter for corrosion, damage, or loose connections.
  
  
• Weak or Failing Battery:
  A weak battery might not provide enough power to cut off the starter after the engine starts.
  
  
• Bad Ground Connection:
  Ensure the starter has a good ground connection to the negative battery terminal.
  
  
• Faulty WIN Module (Vehicle Integrated Network):
  In some vehicles, the WIN module plays a role in starting and stopping the engine, and a malfunction could cause the starter to spin continuously.
  
  
• Starter Motor Issues:
  The starter motor itself could be failing, causing it to spin continuously even after the engine is running.

Troubleshooting Steps:

1. Check Connections: Inspect all connections to the starter, solenoid, and battery terminals for corrosion, damage, or looseness.
   
   
2. Test Battery Voltage: Ensure the battery is fully charged and can deliver sufficient voltage.
   
   
3. Voltage Drop Test: Perform a voltage drop test on the positive and negative cables to the starter to check for any voltage loss.
   
   
4. Inspect Starter Solenoid: Examine the solenoid for any signs of damage or corrosion.
   
   
5. Check for WIN Module Issues: If your vehicle has a WIN module, check for any error codes or communication problems with the module.
   
   
6. Test Starter Motor: If the problem persists, the starter motor itself might need to be tested or replaced.

Goggly skills are absent, describes me perfectly, very grateful to all the members here posting links to help me try to fix things, SitKneelBend most recently with a radio issue.

 

[Aurelius]

OK, mysteriously the problem is gone for now? Since I have a new battery, crankshaft sensor, starter with solenoid, and I have bypassed the starter relay, this is my plan:

1. Investigate how to remove and clean the WIN Module. If it seems doable, do it. Any detailed videos or detailed instructions will be greatly appreciated. I don't even know how to remove the WIN.

2. Assuming cleaning the WIN works, I will remove the starter relay bypass and restore to original.

3. If cleaning the WIN doesn't work, I will bypass it with the push button.

Thanks to all of you for your help. While I enjoy maintaining my old Jag and this truck, I am not in any way trained in auto mechanics. Without your help, this would not be possible for me.

Carpe diem,

Steve S.

 

[Tominator223]

Ethanol builds up in the tank & can become more than 10-15%. If you can find non-eth fuel fill it up a time or two once a year. If not run an additive that helps burn/remove ethanol. I’ve seen Mercedes have starting issues from this. My2cents.

 

[RamDiver]

OK, mysteriously the problem is gone for now? Since I have a new battery, crankshaft sensor, starter with solenoid, and I have bypassed the starter relay, this is my plan:

1. Investigate how to remove and clean the WIN Module. If it seems doable, do it. Any detailed videos or detailed instructions will be greatly appreciated. I don't even know how to remove the WIN.

2. Assuming cleaning the WIN works, I will remove the starter relay bypass and restore to original.

3. If cleaning the WIN doesn't work, I will bypass it with the push button.

Thanks to all of you for your help. While I enjoy maintaining my old Jag and this truck, I am not in any way trained in auto mechanics. Without your help, this would not be possible for me.

Carpe diem,

Steve S.

If you use the search feature on YouTube, there are many explicit videos on removing and repairing the WIN module.

Whenever I use YouTube to learn something new, I tend to watch several videos and take note of the key points learned in all of them.

Some are brilliant while others are just babblers looking for an audience. It's up to the viewers to choose the informative versions.

.

 

[Aurelius]

Thanks, Guys!

Tominator 223, as an ocean racing sailor in the State of WA, I only use diesel purchased from a marine pump. The "biodiesel" they add for HWY use at hwy gas stations, I don't trust.

It is quite a drive to get ethanol free gasoline, but I have found that ethanol plays havoc with small engine carburetors; hence, once a year, I take a drive to fill 4 - 5 gallon cans & I try to arrive with an empty gas tank for a fill up. It is about time to do that.

Ram Driver, I do the same. I have done a lot of work on my Jag & The jag forum & YouTubes have been my salvation. They only made a relative few of my model and they used 5 different engines & made countless changes on those!! It has been productive for me to watch as many as I can.

Surprisingly, when I changed the starter on my 5.7, even the best YouTube I watched was a bit different config than mine. The video showed a metal protective plate that had to come off, but when I did my work, I found that the plate was different & certainly didn't need to be removed.

Carpe diem,

Steve S.

 

[Marshall]

I think in your first post you had a bypass/ remote relay for the fuel pump?
If so and starter is spinning the motor, then if you have spark and fuel pressure, it should start
Have you ever made sure the pump is running?

They can run fine and then next time not start
As with the stater, smack with a hammer is the first hi tech check after making sure you have 12 volts and very good ground
Can be a bit hard with the fuel pump, but a good wack on the bottom of the tank can’t hurt.

Check the simple stuff first
The starter is supposed to spin without holding the key in the start position, that is nothing to do with the truck not starting.

 

[Aurelius]

Thanks, Marshall. Yes, I still have the bypass on the pump relay.

I didn't know that the fuel pump could work intermittently.

In the 3 key positions: On, Acc, and start, where should the fuel pump be heard? I would guess accessories? So, if I turn the key to ACC & don't hear the pump, does that make it likely that it is the pump?
Best, Steve S.

 

[Aurelius]

Forgot to ask: If it is the fuel pump, would there be codes?

 

[Marshall]

I should not run in acc, just when in run / start if you have key.
I have a push button start, so no key.
so I am not even sure on that if I even have a run, ?
I would have to go and check, if you push brake and button, it starts, if you don't hold brake it will not start, it will be in acc. mode .
someone may have more to say on that.

If you took the cap off the pressure port on the fuiel rail , you should see gas spray out when spinning the starter.
I really hate doing that my self.

 

[Marshall]

I don't have a code reader, so can't say, don't think so.

 

[Aurelius]

Thanks, Marshall, very helpful. Since she is starting and running fine now, I may have to wait a bit before testing. At the next no-start, I will listen as the starter turns & if there is any question, will check the fuel rail.
Best, Steve S.

 

[Wild one]

I should not run in acc, just when in run / start if you have key.
I have a push button start, so no key.
so I am not even sure on that if I even have a run, ?
I would have to go and check, if you push brake and button, it starts, if you don't hold brake it will not start, it will be in acc. mode .
someone may have more to say on that.

If you took the cap off the pressure port on the fuiel rail , you should see gas spray out when spinning the starter.
I really hate doing that my self.

No fuel pressure port on a Hemi,you need to use an adapter that ties in between the fuel rail and fuel line that will allow you to connect a fuel pressure gauge.
I use a common easily to get nitrous fuel pressure adapter to hook a gauge to,as i have a few kicking around,lol.
This kit will also work,and is cheap enough it won't break the bank.

Amazon.com

For the Canucks.

BETOOLL Fuel Pressure Test Kit 0-100PSI with 9.49,7.89,6.30 Fuel Line Fittings : Amazon.ca: Automotive

BETOOLL Fuel Pressure Test Kit 0-100PSI with 9.49,7.89,6.30 Fuel Line Fittings : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

 

[Aurelius]

Thanks again, Wild One. Makes sense.

 

[RamDiver]

No fuel pressure port on a Hemi,you need to use an adapter that ties in between the fuel rail and fuel line that will allow you to connect a fuel pressure gauge.
I use a common easily to get nitrous fuel pressure adapter to hook a gauge to,as i have a few kicking around,lol.
This kit will also work,and is cheap enough it won't break the bank.

Amazon.com

For the Canucks.

BETOOLL Fuel Pressure Test Kit 0-100PSI with 9.49,7.89,6.30 Fuel Line Fittings : Amazon.ca: Automotive

BETOOLL Fuel Pressure Test Kit 0-100PSI with 9.49,7.89,6.30 Fuel Line Fittings : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

Blood y hell, now I need to drive to NY.

$30 US does not equal $72 Canadastan.

Too bad I blew $28 on a jug of RL SI-1 in Canada yesterday when Advanced Auto in NY sells it for $16.

I'll stock up for next time.

.

 

[Aurelius]

2011 Ram 1500 (Tradesman) – Key (Not a Fob) Starting Issue

After replacing the battery, crankshaft sensor, bypassing the starter relay, and replacing the starter, have narrowed the issue down to one of two possible causes:

• WIN Module
• Fuel Pump

Symptoms:​

• When the truck starts, it fires up instantly and runs like new.
• When it does not start, the starter engages and continues to crank until it times out automatically (roughly 5 seconds).
• After the starter stops, I notice a fuel smell near the front of the truck.
• If I leave the key inserted and continue to try to crank, the starter continues turning until it times out with each attempt.
• If I remove and reinsert the key, after several attempts, the truck starts immediately and runs normally. It behaves normally with subsequent starts.

WIN Module Considerations:​

Based on forum suggestions, I’ve looked into cleaning the WIN module. This seems simple and might be worth trying because:

1. It’s good preventive maintenance (?), even if it’s not causing the issue.
2. It could actually resolve the problem.
3. It seems like a quick & interesting project to tackle.

Concerns About WIN Module Cleaning:​

• The videos I found were all for fob-operated trucks, not ones using a key.
• Some suggested wiggling the fob, which does not help in my case.

Fuel Pump Question:​

Could this be a fuel pump issue where it initially fails to send enough fuel, but after several attempts, the right amount builds up, allowing the engine to start and run normally because it vacuum-pulls the fuel even if the pump itself is weak?
I appreciate any insights or confirmation from those familiar with this type of issue!

Thanks!

 

[Burla]

When fuel pump also fails sporadically it can likely be TIPM and not fuel pump persay...

TIPM Fuel Relay Test and Bypass Solutions - Most 2007-2021 Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, Jeep, VW Vehicles

Visit https://verticalvisions.com to build your own, order from us, or obtain additional details. We do not sell these on Amazon. If your 2007-2021 Dodge, ...

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[Aurelius]

Thanks, Burla. I did this last week