Stumped. Will not start.

[dchapma1957]

Starting a new topic as the motor is all back together from the cam/liffters. First, let me say thanks to all the folks that comment and offer their insight. Greatly appreciated.

Engine will not start. Yesterday I thought it was not getting fuel and when I tested the external relay it was not getting 12 volts to the repay. OK, easy enough. This morning I repaired the 12 volt wire to the external relay, using a new one with a new inline fuse (which tests good). Still would not start. It sounds like it is sort of firing.

To eliminate that relay for sure I made a jumper and directly powered the fuel pump. Same result, it sounds like it wants to. I don't want to burn up the starter.

No CEL codes.

Things I know for sure.
I know for certain I got the cam/crank timing correct. I checked it 4 times, using the marks on the timing chain and gear/phaser. I even painted the tooth on the crank gear yellow so it would be easy to see, and I drew and arrow on the phaser pully where that notch mark is on that gear.
Phaser at 12 O-Clock and Crank dot at 6. And the timing chain links all lined up.

I went slowly putting in the pushrods and you can't get intake and exhaust swapped because they simply wouldn't fit. I made sure the ball was in the cup on each rocker using a mirror so I could clearly see it seated properly. And when I put them in I wiggled it so I could feel it slip into the lifter. I could see maybe missing one or two pushrods but the motor would till start and run crappy and generate misfire codes..

I double checked that all the sensors are connected securely. Cam position, etc - I accounted for every connector in the harness.

When I had the intake off most of the gas ran out of the fuel rails. How does all that air get purged. I know the pump puts pressure in the gas but what if air is trapped in the rails - there is no schrader valve to bleed them.

Outside of pulling the valve covers and hand cranking the motor while watcching each and every valve, I am open to suggestions.

I don't have any starting fluid spray here and will have to wait until this afternoon to get some.

Thoughts?

 

[dchapma1957]

More information. using my TopDon OBDC diagnostic tool I can:
Tottle each fuel injector and feel/hear them activate.
Toggle the fuel pump relay and can hear the pump run in the gas tank.

In the live data I can see multiple cylinder misfires when cranking the motor trying to start.

Looks like I am goin gto have to pull the valve covers back off and check all the pushrods. I will pull a plug out of each cylinder and hand crank watching each and every rocker. Dammit!

 

[Burla]

What were all of the codes that popped up originally before you cracked it open?

 

[dchapma1957]

P0305, cylinder 5 misfire and that was confirmed with the wiped lifter and cam.

 

[dchapma1957]

I also have confirmed +12V to the ignition coils. Well, one of them but they are all in parallel on the source 12Volts.

If the cam/crank were not timed I would expect popping / backfiring as the spart would hit with a valve still open and I am getting none of that. And I checked that multiple times to make sure it was aligned properly.

Getting those valve covers off now that everything is assembled is going to be a real pain.

 

[Burla]

Just from reading the board, a few times this has happened it turned out to be Camshaft Position Sensor or a ground issue. Not sure either is your issue here, no codes makes first unlikely.

 

[dchapma1957]

UPDATE:
I pulled the coils and one sparkplug from each Cylinder and did a compression test.
Results:
Cylinder. PSI
1. 0
2. 200
3. 0
4. 205
5. 25
6. 0
7. 0
8. 0

I had good compression before starting so it isn't rings, etc.

These were reconditioned heads. There is no way I missed that many pushrods. My guess here is that somehow, maybe wen I put the tensioner on the cam slipped a tooth? But I know I checked it after!

If the cam timing were off a tooth wouldn't all the cylinder compressions be bad, why 2 good ones? I really do not want to pull these heads again.

I guess pull the valve covers, rotate by hand and watch for valve action. If I see them all moving it has to be cam timing. Right?

 

[Ken226]

I guess pull the valve covers, rotate by hand and watch for valve action. If I see them all moving it has to be cam timing. Right?

Yea, that's the right course of action.

Something is bad wrong there. Either cam timing is way off, pushrods bent, valves bent, a combination of the aforementioned, or something.

Those 0 readings are concerning. If the cam was off by a few teeth, there would still be something. My first thought is that the cam timing was way off, and things got bent. I really hope not.

 

[dchapma1957]

Mystery solved and I am a freaking moron!

Using a borescope, I sighted into all the cylinders. 2 and 4, which have normal compression looked great. 6 and 8 - well, it appears I left those blue shop towels in the intake ports when I bolted on the intake manifold, same with cylinders 1, 3, 5, and 7.

I got interrupted putting that manifold on, so I started to pull the towels and when I came back to it must have thought I pulled them all. So 6 of the 8 cylinders have those blue Scott shop towels stuffed in there, keeping the intake valve open, causing 0 compression and all the issues.

Hopefully I can fish them all out after pulling the intake, rotating the motor to get the intake valve open and fish, or suck them out. Otherwise, I will have to pull the heads and I really do not want to do that! I have a small claw grabber.

If I can get most of it out and the valve to close, any small particles should burn up.

 

[Burla]

dang, hey glad you found it.

 

[Ken226]

Mystery solved and I am a freaking moron!

Using a borescope, I sighted into all the cylinders. 2 and 4, which have normal compression looked great. 6 and 8 - well, it appears I left those blue shop towels in the intake ports when I bolted on the intake manifold, same with cylinders 1, 3, 5, and 7.

I got interrupted putting that manifold on, so I started to pull the towels and when I came back to it must have thought I pulled them all. So 6 of the 8 cylinders have those blue Scott shop towels stuffed in there, keeping the intake valve open, causing 0 compression and all the issues.

Hopefully I can fish them all out after pulling the intake, rotating the motor to get the intake valve open and fish, or suck them out. Otherwise, I will have to pull the heads and I really do not want to do that! I have a small claw grabber.

If I can get most of it out and the valve to close, any small particles should burn up.

 

[Ken226]

I'm glad you got it figured out and it wasn't anything major. The sort of thing we all do occasionally.

Sounds like you'll have it running in short order.

 

[dchapma1957]

IF I can get the towels out and didn't bend a valve or 2. Otherwise I am back to pulling the heads again. Not sure this old body is ready for round 2.

 

[DILLIGAF]

So im not the only one that does stupid sh1te I always blame the edibles or my ADHD ! It makes me fell better...

Glad you found it. And glad you have the balls to admit it

My biggest ph0ck-up was starting a fresh rebuild without oil .

 

[Ken226]

At this point in the saga, many of us feel emotionally invested. Like, coming to the final scenes of a movie.

Popcorns out, and we're all pulling for ya, hoping for a clean finish that doesn't require a sequel. Don't leave us hanging.

In fact, at this point, a short video clip of it starting up is in order

 

[J-13GTP]

The first time I had mine apart I got everything back together and kinda running. No power and didn't want to pull itself. Sounded mechanical ok thou. Start poking around, misfire codes for all cylinders on the drivers side. I never plugged any of the injectors in on the drivers side. It was a relief to find something easy.

 

[diymirage]

man, i hate to say this, but i cant see the valves surviving that

 

[dchapma1957]

Spent 5 hours fishing everything out today. Several cylinders the wadded up pieces came out whole - I though I was in for a good day.

Using a borescope, hand cranking the engine to open the intake valve I went through the firing order and laid out the pieces I pulled out and for the most part they are whole sheets, some missing small pieces. I poked and prodded, then used a small gun barrel wire brush. I could get it past the open intake and spinning it would pick up the tiny pieces.

Then I did compression checks. All Cylinders over 200 Lbs except 8 and 5 - they have 0! Spent another hour on those two cylinders, not really seeing any more paper towell - still 0, so it looks like those two cylinders kissed the valves. It doesn't take much!

So tomorrow I get to pull the heads for the second time in the last two weeks and start all over again. I ordered 2 Intake and 2 Exhaust valves from Melling, head gaskets, etc. I hope my ancient spring compressor fits. I plan to just Lap the valves.

So the movie saga continues. Please return for part 2 in a few days

The incoming hurricane may cramp my style for a couple days as I am doing this in my driveway!

 

[Ken226]

Bummer. So close.

 

[dchapma1957]

Part 2:
Cylinder 8:
Popped the valve covers off this morning.#8 exhaust valve not moving - yep, I got that pushrod in the wrong hole. Took out the rod and it is slightly bent. So need new pushrod there. Then it ocurred to me the valve may also be bent so did a compression test and it came in at 220. Then did a leakdown and it held pressure - so no need to pull the right head! Yea, at least something went right.

Cylinder 5:
Popped the valve covers off and all valves moving as they should. Looked again using the borescope to try and find anything left in there - the intake valve is clear of all debris but I cannot see the exhaust. So, I brought it around to the cylinder 5 valve overlap and I lit a small fire in the cylinder to try and burn up any left over piece of paper towel. Still only has 25 Lbs of compression. That head has to come off and probably the valves replaced on cylinder 5..

Parts on order, I am taking abreak. We have a hurricane coming and I did not want the motor opened up for several days. I will wait till I get parts and the hurricane passses then dive back in.

At least it is only 1 head.