synthetic oil question

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

SD38-2

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Posts
129
Reaction score
40
Location
Indiana
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7 Hemi
I have been running Amsoil SS 5w20 in my 14 ram 1500 since the first oil change @ 5000 miles, truck has 48k on it now. I've had no issues with using the Amsoil SS 5w20. Now I've read in a few posts about some that run red line 5w30. I know red line is a great oil but I thought the hemi had to run 5w20 because of the MDS. Is the 5w30 ok to run without any issues? I don't get any engine noise running the Amsoil SS 5w20. What are the benefits to using a 5w30 oil? Sorry if this is a dumb question but before I bought my 14 ram 1500 in 2014 I own a 2nd gen cummins for about 10 yrs and I just fed it Rotella 15w40 or valvoline premium blue 15w40.
 
Last edited:

Kap1

Ex Ram 1500 2013 owner
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Posts
680
Reaction score
560
Ram Year
2022 Tundra
Engine
3.5 vvti
What kind of issues are you having?
 

crazykid1994

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Posts
5,063
Reaction score
5,064
Location
Florida
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
The thicker oil doesn’t squeeze out under load as easily. That’s really the only benefit. Some people are noticing the 5w30 seems to be helping reduce wear in their motors and other people aren’t seeing any difference whatsoever. I switched after 10,000 miles to the redline 5w30 because I noticed a little tick noise at startup after it sat for a while (a week or more) and because it’s hot here in south Florida so the 5w30 will be thicker for our summer (basically all year here until now for about 2 months then back to 80+ again) which helps keep the oil from shearing or wearing out faster


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SyN

6.7L CTD Owner
Joined
May 6, 2014
Posts
3,104
Reaction score
4,852
Location
Tornado Alley
Ram Year
2017 4WD - Tow Prep Pkg - Off-Road Pkg - 3:42s w/Anti-Slip
Engine
6.7L CTD
The 5W-30 just adds extra film strength over the 5W-20.
If your Ram is ONLY a daily driver/Church on Sunday/Grocery getter.
Stick with the 5W-20!

If your Ram is worked: Regular medium towing or heavy towing?
Think about going to a 5W-30!
No harm will occur nor will any warranty be voided.

Just think of All the owners who have their Rams serviced at ****** lube places! Do they really Know exactly what brand or actual viscosity is being pumped into their new or low mileage engine?
I have caught the local **** Shop pumping in (the totally wrong brand & viscosity) into my work truck.
(I requested PYB 10W-30 & caught them pumping in Castrol 5W-20). They are a Castrol ****** lube business. Ya I blew the **** Up on them! Don’t Trust these A$$ Clowns!
They will pump in what they want.

My 5.7L really reacted well to PUP SRT 0W-40.

I even ran PUP 10W-30 during the summer months with ZERO issues & still averaged 19.5 mpg.

IF: Your 5.7L is silky smooth & quiet while running the SS 5W-20 ——->Stick with it!
It is a Very Robust / Stout oil!
 
Last edited:

blackbeautyhemi

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2013
Posts
2,190
Reaction score
1,317
Location
Lewistown, PA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
5.7 HEMI
And isn’t there a little better cleaner or something in the 30 than the 20? I thought I read that somewhere on here but could be mistaken.
 

Nutshell

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Posts
658
Reaction score
472
Ram Year
2020
Engine
5.7 HEMI
While 5W20 is fine, inside of a 400 HP truck, guys (myself included) are running 5W30. I guess I sleep a little better but there is really no evidence you won't be 100% fine with 5W20. If it works, keep using it.
 

SyN

6.7L CTD Owner
Joined
May 6, 2014
Posts
3,104
Reaction score
4,852
Location
Tornado Alley
Ram Year
2017 4WD - Tow Prep Pkg - Off-Road Pkg - 3:42s w/Anti-Slip
Engine
6.7L CTD
And isn’t there a little better cleaner or something in the 30 than the 20? I thought I read that somewhere on here but could be mistaken.

It’s possible in some oil brands.
Remember: Every viscosity has a totally different additive package when it comes to the amount (ppm) of Additives.

Thus the reason I am partial to 10W-30 synthetic.
Especially 10W-30 high mileage oils.
M1 HM oils are extremely robust / Stout & have extremely low pour points.
 

Burla

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
27,470
Reaction score
57,571
Ram Year
2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4
Engine
Hemi
The 5W-30 just adds extra film strength over the 5W-20.

That is really it end of story read this, the most important feature of any oil is always viscosity, and 5w30 is considered a thin oil anyway. It is just that 20 weights are super thin. As to answer your question why redline, it is because it is ester/pao based and that provides performance in the extreme conditions that cannot be matched with group 3 oil. This is specifically why it is proven a good choice under ticking conditions, COLD CLIMATES, and towing etc.

However, the question remains always is that extra cost worth it in the specific application of a gas engine, most people say it is not. There are many things they put into group 3 oils such as Vii's and Detergents and a list of other additives that make up for what happens naturally with esters. The argument for esters/pao base is much stronger for other applications like the gears and tranny, thus is why the new tranny fluid is specifically PAO based.

If you are happy with what you are using, follow the if it aint broke don't fix it crowd, maybe consider same brand just go to 30 weight. Learn about how UOA's work if you want to take the argument further. With the newest spec ilsac gf-6 which Amsoil currently has I believe and most oils do not yet, all oils will be very similar in additive package. If you want something radically different like Redline, you have to leave the API oils or maybe look at GtL base oils.

The Amsoil formulas are very new and dramatically different then they were a couple months ago, it will be a while before we see a lot of uoa's and see how it is going. M1 had made the switch to a GF-6 friendly formula many years ago, I believe the only company to do so, other then M1 every group 3 oil selling company will have new formulas that nobody can say for sure it is or isn't good for any application. It is an unknown.

There has been a lot of debate and trouble with the GF-6 spec, the goal of providing a lspi friendly oil that also meets CAFE standards is proving to be a hard sell because these formulas are leading to excessive wear. This is why they keep pushing the GF-6 spec back, it is a very large quagmire for the oil industry. Read here and decide if you want to run an oil that was built to meet GF-6 in your hemi.

from link

Two tests have proven particularly challenging to complete. The Sequence IVB test evaluates a lubricant’s ability to prevent wear in modern valve trains. The Sequence VH test evaluates a lubricant’s ability to prevent engine deposit buildup, more commonly known as “sludge and varnish.”

Well it is apparent that the "wear" protection will never be achieved in comparison to the current GF-5 spec. It is a bunch of garbage to think they will achieve this, unless they embrace esters and pao's which is not likely. There is only so much you are going to get out of group 3 oil. Like Clint says, you just need to know your limitations. They will meet every other goal, low additives to help DI turbo's and thinner oils to to give better fuel economy in a lab, but these will come at a cost and the cost will be the oils will be less effective at preventing wear in a long oil change interval. Someday someone will invent a self healing Vii and all of these things will be possible, but until then there is a cost for going to low additive -thinner oils.

A lot of this challenge can be avoided by simply going to 30 weight and not worrying about fuel economy. Running 20 weight gf-6 is a risk, that is why the spec keeps getting pushed back.

Did you want a less detailed answer, my bad :)
 
Last edited:

SyN

6.7L CTD Owner
Joined
May 6, 2014
Posts
3,104
Reaction score
4,852
Location
Tornado Alley
Ram Year
2017 4WD - Tow Prep Pkg - Off-Road Pkg - 3:42s w/Anti-Slip
Engine
6.7L CTD
Please! Please! Remember & don’t get suckered in (brainwashed) into believing 5W-30 or even for that matter 10W-30 are thick oils.
Especially Synthetic 5W-30 / 10W-30 oils!

5W-20 once @ operating temp has the viscosity of H2O!

Thick oils in my opinion begins at 15W-40 / 10W-60 / 15W-50 / 5W-50 / 20W-50 / etc
 

Ramnewbie

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
3,884
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
That is really it end of story read this, the most important feature of any oil is always viscosity, and 5w30 is considered a thin oil anyway. It is just that 20 weights are super thin. As to answer your question why redline, it is because it is ester/pao based and that provides performance in the extreme conditions that cannot be matched with group 3 oil. This is specifically why it is proven a good choice under ticking conditions, COLD CLIMATES, and towing etc.

However, the question remains always is that extra cost worth it in the specific application of a gas engine, most people say it is not. There are many things they put into group 3 oils such as Vii's and Detergents and a list of other additives that make up for what happens naturally with esters. The argument for esters/pao base is much stronger for other applications like the gears and tranny, thus is why the new tranny fluid is specifically PAO based.

If you are happy with what you are using, follow the if it aint broke don't fix it crowd, maybe consider same brand just go to 30 weight. Learn about how UOA's work if you want to take the argument further. With the newest spec ilsac gf-6 which Amsoil currently has I believe and most oils do not yet, all oils will be very similar in additive package. If you want something radically different like Redline, you have to leave the API oils or maybe look at GtL base oils.

The Amsoil formulas are very new and dramatically different then they were a couple months ago, it will be a while before we see a lot of uoa's and see how it is going. M1 had made the switch to a GF-6 friendly formula many years ago, I believe the only company to do so, other then M1 every group 3 oil selling company will have new formulas that nobody can say for sure it is or isn't good for any application. It is an unknown.

There has been a lot of debate and trouble with the GF-6 spec, the goal of providing a lspi friendly oil that also meets CAFE standards is proving to be a hard sell because these formulas are leading to excessive wear. This is why they keep pushing the GF-6 spec back, it is a very large quagmire for the oil industry. Read here and decide if you want to run an oil that was built to meet GF-6 in your hemi.

from link

Two tests have proven particularly challenging to complete. The Sequence IVB test evaluates a lubricant’s ability to prevent wear in modern valve trains. The Sequence VH test evaluates a lubricant’s ability to prevent engine deposit buildup, more commonly known as “sludge and varnish.”

Well it is apparent that the "wear" protection will never be achieved in comparison to the current GF-5 spec. It is a bunch of garbage to think they will achieve this, unless they embrace esters and pao's which is not likely. There is only so much you are going to get out of group 3 oil. Like Clint says, you just need to know your limitations. They will meet every other goal, low additives to help DI turbo's and thinner oils to to give better fuel economy in a lab, but these will come at a cost and the cost will be the oils will be less effective at preventing wear in a long oil change interval. Someday someone will invent a self healing Vii and all of these things will be possible, but until then there is a cost for going to low additive -thinner oils.

A lot of this challenge can be avoided by simply going to 30 weight and not worrying about fuel economy. Running 20 weight gf-6 is a risk, that is why the spec keeps getting pushed back.

Did you want a less detailed answer, my bad :)
I have yet to see any gf6 oils on the shelf, more and more Dexos1 Gen 2 oils but no gf6.


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

Ramnewbie

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
3,884
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
From what I've been reading even when gf6 does come out there will be a gf6a and a gf6b. The a will address the more traditional weights and be backwards applicable and b will address the newer thin weights.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

Burla

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
27,470
Reaction score
57,571
Ram Year
2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4
Engine
Hemi
Even though technically Amsoil is saying their new oil is only GF-5, it was built for the GF-6 spec, they are betting their new formula will meet GF-6. Their old formula ALREADY met GF-5, the new formula took out additives so to guarantee 100% effectiveness for LSPI, the main reason for GF-6 spec. However, as stated before simply avoid the 20 weight and you will have adequate protection from wear. The entire mess of the industry and decision making owners have to make go away simply by using 30 weight oil, and a reasonably OCI. Everyone is "saying" their low calcium oils are still long oil change interval oils, I wouldn't buy into that unless I did a UOA myself. I certainly wouldn't trust a UOA from shady sources, invest in your own uoa.
 

Ramnewbie

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
3,884
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Even though technically Amsoil is saying their new oil is only GF-5, it was built for the GF-6 spec, they are betting their new formula will meet GF-6. Their old formula ALREADY met GF-5, the new formula took out additives so to guarantee 100% effectiveness for LSPI, the main reason for GF-6 spec. However, as stated before simply avoid the 20 weight and you will have adequate protection from wear. The entire mess of the industry and decision making owners have to make go away simply by using 30 weight oil, and a reasonably OCI. Every is "saying" their oils are still long oil change interval oils, I wouldn't buy into that unless I did a UOA myself. I certainly wouldn't trust a UOA from shady sources, invest in your own uoa.
This is just my bet but I'm thinking that all the new dexos1Gen2 oils were formulated to meet gf6 standards. The way I understand it is that they have agreed on gf6 standards but they are arguing over test methods to certify that the oils meet those standards. I can't see any oil company spending the time and money to develop a new formula just to meet a GM standard when they know a new API standard is just down the road. We have a couple of cases of store brand 0/16 in the store and it's still listed as gf5 sn.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

tenappolee01

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Posts
2
Reaction score
3
Location
castleton ontario canada
Ram Year
2012
Engine
hemi
Where synthetic oils shine, is cold weather starting. I remember the tests chrysler did years ago in the arctic circle with cold weather starting tests. They employed the use of see thru valve covers to see how long it took for conventional oils to reach the top of the pushrods. In most cases it was well over two minutes!!!! Prime environment for excessive wear and failure over time. Most synthetics have a pour point of -45 degrees which certainly keeps the wear to a minimum. Also the service manager at the dealership where i bought my 2012 ram 1500, always says to use the viscosity recommended by the manufacturer, just in case of warranty issues, although it is not a big factor in determining repair responsibility.
 

Ramnewbie

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
3,884
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
It's been along time since I read about this so my timeline might not be quite correct but the original need/ idea for synthetics came about because of WWII. Lubrication in extremely cold temps. I think they were first introduced in aircraft engines and then very slowly made it to the auto industry. If you read the marketing hype Amsoil was the first API certified synthetic oil, however it's always been rumoured that they buy their base from Mobil. Sooooo, the only thing you can really say is the 2 of them have been in synthetics longer than anyone else. I'm not saying that that makes either one the best, just they've been around longer.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

Burla

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
27,470
Reaction score
57,571
Ram Year
2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4
Engine
Hemi
API is an American thing, synthetics were in Europe decades earlier. Certainly Amsoil has never made any synthetic oil, they are a blender. All interesting, but not really relevant to what oil is today. Most oils are a shell of what they used to be. it is been going down hill since 1992, only a very few companies didn't lower their standards, cemented in 1999 when you could officially call ground oil synthetic.
 
Last edited:

Ramnewbie

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
3,884
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
API is an American thing, synthetics were in Europe decades earlier. Certainly Amsoil has never made any synthetic oil, they are a blender. All interesting, but not really relevant to what oil is today. Most oils are a shell of what they used to be.
Yeah, I never claimed that Amsoil ever made any oil, they have always just been a blender.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top