Synthetic Oil

[Rod Knock]

@Burla @HEMIMANN is this redlines new formula for sp? I wasnt sure the 0w40 would get reformulated but check that ad pack out

Looks like the Castrol EDGE 0W-40 did really well, considering that all these lubes ran in a GDI Twin Turbo V6 engine that shears oils pretty badly. Shame for the RedLine though.

@HEMIMANN said a while ago, and I quote:

There's no more hot stable oil than Red Line.

I beg to differ, as RedLine sheared beyond belief for such an expensive oil. Looking at that 405F flashpoint, the searing is due to heat, not fuel dilution. Out of all the oils used in the engine shown in the UOA above, Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40 performed the best. At $21.99 for a 5-quart jug, and considering that it's full of Organic Friction Reducers, it's hard to beat. In Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40, a Titanium-based additive takes the place of the Molybdenum for boundary lubrication situations where Moly would be used otherwise. Castrol does this to lower the spASH of their oil to 1.1%.

Friction Modifiers:

Article on OMFs: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/art...ves have,substrates in a tribological contact
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_modifier

Molybdenum doesn't coat anything, as @Burla theorized. Organic Friction Modifiers do: OFMs are amphiphilic surfactants, such as fatty acids, often derived from fats and vegetable oils. OFMs are important additives in modern engine oils and are also employed in fuels. They adsorb on metal surfaces and self-assemble to form incompressible monolayers which prevent asperity contact and reduce friction and wear.

 

[knightjp]

I'm honored that @FalconHemi would mention my name. I'm hardly qualified to answer or advise anyone on this.. What led me to believe that hot climates and thiner oils kill the HEMI engine was the fact that @Burla himself said so when I had my HEMI tick. Also the added fact that my brother's Durango has used 5W30 oil in its engine since new and has considerably more mileage without ever experiencing the tick.

I have to agree with @Burla on the superiority of Redline.
I recently had to buy another Ram and I had my mechanic check the engine. He said that he could hear the faintest sound of a lifter tick.. Perhaps if left unchecked, it would need have needed to do the same repair.
We did an oil change with Redline 5W30 and tick is gone. The engine is sounding so much better than when I bought it.
Looking at the truck's history with the previous owner, I saw that the dealer used a mixture of Mopar 5W30 and 5W20; whichever was in stock at the time.
My mechanic has since then done other vehicles with HEMI engines and all have experienced the tick. Since my case, he is constantly recommending Redline 5W30 to the customers because he saw what it did to my engine. He was a skeptic before...

The only trouble I see is that Redline can be hard to come by at times and I will need to find an alternative from time to time. Motul 300V was another that was recommended, but if I am honest, I didn't like the way my engine was sounding with that.. It sounded camy.. if that makes sense.
I would think about trying Amsoil 5W30 as well and see how that performs. But Redline would be my 1st engine oil of choice for my HEMI.

 

[MontanaHandyman]

I'm honored that @FalconHemi would mention my name. I'm hardly qualified to answer or advise anyone on this.. What led me to believe that hot climates and thiner oils kill the HEMI engine was the fact that @Burla himself said so when I had my HEMI tick. Also the added fact that my brother's Durango has used 5W30 oil in its engine since new and has considerably more mileage without ever experiencing the tick.

I have to agree with @Burla on the superiority of Redline.
I recently had to buy another Ram and I had my mechanic check the engine. He said that he could hear the faintest sound of a lifter tick.. Perhaps if left unchecked, it would need have needed to do the same repair.
We did an oil change with Redline 5W30 and tick is gone. The engine is sounding so much better than when I bought it.
Looking at the truck's history with the previous owner, I saw that the dealer used a mixture of Mopar 5W30 and 5W20; whichever was in stock at the time.
My mechanic has since then done other vehicles with HEMI engines and all have experienced the tick. Since my case, he is constantly recommending Redline 5W30 to the customers because he saw what it did to my engine. He was a skeptic before...

The only trouble I see is that Redline can be hard to come by at times and I will need to find an alternative from time to time. Motul 300V was another that was recommended, but if I am honest, I didn't like the way my engine was sounding with that.. It sounded camy.. if that makes sense.
I would think about trying Amsoil 5W30 as well and see how that performs. But Redline would be my 1st engine oil of choice for my HEMI.

Due to possible supply and delivery issues, I keep scouring the internet for the best deals to build up a little stockpile. Every time another RL order gets delivered, my wife is like(insert exploding head emoji here!) Lol

 

[Rod Knock]

Due to possible supply and delivery issues, I keep scouring the internet for the best deals to build up a little stockpile. Every time another RL order gets delivered, my wife is like(insert exploding head emoji here!) Lol

I think they're just cleaning out their pipeline for the reformulated version. I'm curious how that'll turn out.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Burla @HEMIMANN is this redlines new formula for sp? I wasnt sure the 0w40 would get reformulated but check that ad pack out

I see the most recent UOA is Red Line HP 0W-40. First, this oil is either blended or sheared down to an SAE 30 grade. SAE 40 grade starts @ 12.5 cSt.

I strongly encourage using a 5W-30, or 0W-30 in winter. In either case, these multigrades start where your oil ended up for viscosity. They don't shear down or evaporate, as my recent UOA shows. They cost a bit less too, due to less additive needed to make such wide multigrades.

I do not have a UOA or VOA for Red Line HP 0W-40. Spec Sheets don't show additives, of course. I do have a VOA of Red Line HP 5W-30. I will show below the change in your additive pack compared to my VOA, despite being differing viscosity multigrades (don't know if or how much difference this makes):

Moly -163
Boron -121
Calcium -805
Magnesium +139
Phosphorous +264
Zinc -295

These changes in additives seem to indicate the oil is intended for API SN+ or SP applications (LSPI resistance).

 

[Rod Knock]

These changes in additives seem to indicate the oil is intended for API SN+ or SP applications (LSPI resistance).

API SP has superseded API SN+. Nevertheless, why would they formulate an API-compliant lubricant when RedLine historically never obtained API licensing for any of their lubricants, except for the Professional Line, which is just rebranded Kendall products? I might add that badge engineering contributes to brand dilution a la Royal Purple, when RP started putting their name on cookie-cutter API compliant formulations, then sold them at Walmart at incredible markup.

Could it have something to do with their corporate overlord trying to squeeze more profit from them, as Calumet did with RP?

Since you brought it up, what would those API SN+ or SP applications be, and what's the difference, in your opinion, between API SN+ and API SP?

What exactly is LSPI resistance?

I strongly encourage using a 5W-30, or 0W-30 in winter.

If RedLine is going the way of watering down their product lines, what's the point?

[Edit]

In the UOA that @Travis8352 posted, the Magnesium to Calcium ratio is incorrect. They can be nearly equal with Mg slightly higher or Ca be substantially lower, but never can Ca be substantially higher in motor oil that claims to offer LSPI protection. I reserve further judgment until more RedLine UOAs with the new formulation show up.

 

[Travis8352]

I see the most recent UOA is Red Line HP 0W-40. First, this oil is either blended or sheared down to an SAE 30 grade. SAE 40 grade starts @ 12.5 cSt.

I strongly encourage using a 5W-30, or 0W-30 in winter. In either case, these multigrades start where your oil ended up for viscosity. They don't shear down or evaporate, as my recent UOA shows. They cost a bit less too, due to less additive needed to make such wide multigrades.

I do not have a UOA or VOA for Red Line HP 0W-40. Spec Sheets don't show additives, of course. I do have a VOA of Red Line HP 5W-30. I will show below the change in your additive pack compared to my VOA, despite being differing viscosity multigrades (don't know if or how much difference this makes):

Moly -163
Boron -121
Calcium -805
Magnesium +139
Phosphorous +264
Zinc -295

These changes in additives seem to indicate the oil is intended for API SN+ or SP applications (LSPI resistance).

Its not my uoa so i really dont know. The ad pack caught my eye is all

 

[Rod Knock]

Motul 300V was another that was recommended, but if I am honest, I didn't like the way my engine was sounding with that..

Motul 300V is high-performance oil for motorcycle engines: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products?facets[application]=632&facets[engine_type]=26&facets[range]=21.

I'm not sure why you would try that in your HEMI. Who recommended it to you?

I would think about trying Amsoil 5W30 as well and see how that performs.

That one performs as well as any other oil in its class. It performs the same as Pennzoil Platinum (and Ultra) 5W-30, Mobil 1 (and EP) 5W-30, Castrol EDGE (and EP) 5W-30, Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30, and so on. It's classified as a fuel economy motor oil.

RedLine 5W-30 is classified as an ACEA A3/B4 oil. AMSOIL SS 5W-30 and Motul 300V are not. If you want to make a fair comparison, run another motor oil in the same class and then judge. Try Castrol EDGE 5W-30 A3/B4, Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 (A3/B4). It's even fair to compare it to oils in the ACEA C3 class like Mobil1 ESP 5W-30, Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40, and so on. I would start here and learn the ACEA classifications: https://360.lubrizol.com/2016/ABCs-of-ACEA. The US doesn't use ACEA classifications. We have three ILSAC oil viscosities that can't even meet the bare minimum of ACEA C2 or A5/B5. Everyone is comparing them like they're markedly different, namely ILSAC 0W-20, ILSAC 5W-20, and ILSAC 5W-30. They perform and are formulated very similarly. There is a reason why Europe doesn't use ILSAC lubricants: because they're crap.

Lubrizol 360 Comparison Tool for OEM Approvals and motor oil Classifications: https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Lubrizol is an additive manufacturer. They are the ones who formulate the motor oils for RedLine. The entire RedLine High-Performance line is formulated and blended at the theoretical level. RedLine never performs engine sequence testing or submits its oils for API licensing or OEM approvals. However, because their products are not API licensed, they're also not liable for any damage that their products might do to your engine. They don't offer any warranty, implied or otherwise. Use it at your own risk.

In other words, RedLine doesn't have one of these:

Mobil 1 Engine Test Lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-zDt9FGJi8

Valvoline Engine Test Lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGgX0Mwy5Ao

AMSOIL Mechanical Lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQDyZdbIgmU&t=50s

There is plenty of information out there. Please do your research before following forum advice. I would be cautious before pouring motorcycle oil into my expensive HEMI. What if the person who advised you to try Motul 300V told you to give extra-v1rgin olive oil a try?

Another good resource to educate yourself on lubricants is the YouTube channel Lubrication Explained: https://www.youtube.com/c/LubricationExplained

Keep in mind that you are just as capable as everyone else of deciphering, understanding, and learning all this stuff. Lubricant classifications and basic metallurgy (lifter issues) are easy to understand, and the resources are out there on the web.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Red line 15304 label old to new?

 

[Travis8352]

I think that bottom lable is the really old label and the other 2 are the more recent ones for the pasf few years. Maybe im wrong

 

[huntergreen]

My favorite comedic duo of all time is Laurel and Hardy.

View attachment 482477

I’m an Abbot and Costello guy .

 

[crackerjack1957]

I think that bottom lable is the really old label and the other 2 are the more recent ones for the pasf few years. Maybe im wrong

I purchased the below in 4/2021
I think the 5w30 in black label are the older........most selling now have 5w30 in white

EDIT: I see you are correct by RedLine image on their page!!!

 

[HEMIMANN]

@crackerjack1957 - top pic is what shows on Red Line website. Middle pic has french subtitles. Red Line website shows a Euro Series, but bottle label is different.

Where did you get the middle and bottom pics?

 

[crackerjack1957]

@crackerjack1957 - top pic is what shows on Red Line website. Middle pic has french subtitles. Red Line website shows a Euro Series, but bottle label is different.

Where did you get the middle and bottom pics?

Just image links from google.......yeah I see Redline sight has the black lettered 5w-30 as latest now.
Should have looked there 1st.
Just trying to purchase older version of 15304/ 5w30

 

[crackerjack1957]

5w30 white label & black are on eBay
Amazon also but that doesn't mean you get what you see......could be old image

 

[HEMIMANN]

5w30 white label & black are on eBay

If they're that old, I wouldn't want them. PAO & POE have very long shelf lives, but who knows about the additive shelf lifes.

 

[crackerjack1957]

If they're that old, I wouldn't want them. PAO & POE have very long shelf lives, but who knows about the additive shelf lifes.

Was just trying to avoid the newer formula.......photo images could just be old & not updated

 

[Rod Knock]

I’m an Abbot and Costello guy .

The Three Stooges are pretty entertaining IMHO.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Was just trying to avoid the newer formula.......photo images could just be old & not updated

Gotcha.

From the UOA @Travis8352 dug up, Red Lines add pack looks to have changed quite a bit for SN+ / SP. Even though they haven't API-labeled. Not sure what they're doing.

 

[Rod Knock]

From the UOA @Travis8352 dug up, Red Lines add pack looks to have changed quite a bit for SN+ / SP. Even though they haven't API-labeled. Not sure what they're doing.

The additive package didn't change. It's more like that NISSAN VR30DDTT twin-turbo GDI beat the living p1$$ out of RedLine 0W-40. A drop of around 4~5 cSt @ 100C due to shearing doesn't bode well for RedLine. This goes to show that RedLine is not suitable for this kind of engine, and I'm sure that they're aware of it, and that's why they're updating the formulation.

The reformulated oils aren't available yet on the market. They will be once the channels are most of the old stuff. No one wants to be stuck with older inventory.

You're welcome, and now feel free to ignore my post, though I hope you realize that I'm just trying to help.