Temperature related starting issues

[BHop88]

G'day all,

Firstly, I've done my searches here and not having any similar threads posted from what I can find. I've taken my truck to many mechanics for this issue and no one seems to have a solution. I'll post the issue and what's been done and hopefully some of you may be able to help.

2017 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman V6

When I go to work, I park outside. When I'm at home, I'm in a temperature regulated parkade (+15 degrees celsius on average). When the temperature is above -5 degrees celsius, I have no starting issues. When the temperature outside drops below -5 degrees celsius, I later have issues starting the truck.

To be clear, when I have my truck at work and it's left outside the cold and I start it to go home, there are no issues starting. The start issue becomes an issue the following day, in the parkade, in controlled temperature. If the previous day had been below -5 degrees celsius, I go home, then try to start the next day, the truck struggles and whimpers before eventually turning over and starting. Sadly, I can notice it getting worse and worse and believe one day it'll just not turn over.

I'd normally go after the Starter, Battery, or Alternator but it just doesn't make sense to me that the temperature of the previous day affects the starting temperature at home in a controlled temp. In summer, early fall, late spring...zero issues. As soon as it drops below -5...issues. I would normally expect cold starts and starting the truck outside in the cold to be an issue, but to have the vehicle outside, start fine, then have problems the following day inside is the head scratcher.

Bit of a long winded post but just wanting to make it clear that the issue isn't starting outside in the cold.

I've had the battery replaced, lines and connectors serviced, and every now and again have the Knocker Circuit 2 sensor trip. I had my mechanic do a visual inspection of the sensor and no issues.

If anyone has heard of something similar to this I'm all ears for things to try. It makes me think there is a computer issue but this is not my forte of knowledge.

Cheers,

Brandon

 

[Burla]

How old is new battery?? Hemi's need a lot of CCA to start, you lose CCA as battery ages.

Cold extends battery life but kills capacity...

 

[Burla]

You have your battery thermal wrap on it? They even have plug in thermal wraps you can leave on a timer ready to go when you start the truck.

 

[star_deceiver]

When was the battery replaced last? Might be on its way out again.

 

[Wild one]

G'day all,

Firstly, I've done my searches here and not having any similar threads posted from what I can find. I've taken my truck to many mechanics for this issue and no one seems to have a solution. I'll post the issue and what's been done and hopefully some of you may be able to help.

2017 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman V6

When I go to work, I park outside. When I'm at home, I'm in a temperature regulated parkade (+15 degrees celsius on average). When the temperature is above -5 degrees celsius, I have no starting issues. When the temperature outside drops below -5 degrees celsius, I later have issues starting the truck.

To be clear, when I have my truck at work and it's left outside the cold and I start it to go home, there are no issues starting. The start issue becomes an issue the following day, in the parkade, in controlled temperature. If the previous day had been below -5 degrees celsius, I go home, then try to start the next day, the truck struggles and whimpers before eventually turning over and starting. Sadly, I can notice it getting worse and worse and believe one day it'll just not turn over.

I'd normally go after the Starter, Battery, or Alternator but it just doesn't make sense to me that the temperature of the previous day affects the starting temperature at home in a controlled temp. In summer, early fall, late spring...zero issues. As soon as it drops below -5...issues. I would normally expect cold starts and starting the truck outside in the cold to be an issue, but to have the vehicle outside, start fine, then have problems the following day inside is the head scratcher.

Bit of a long winded post but just wanting to make it clear that the issue isn't starting outside in the cold.

I've had the battery replaced, lines and connectors serviced, and every now and again have the Knocker Circuit 2 sensor trip. I had my mechanic do a visual inspection of the sensor and no issues.

If anyone has heard of something similar to this I'm all ears for things to try. It makes me think there is a computer issue but this is not my forte of knowledge.

Cheers,

Brandon

Stop in at your local Canadian Tire and grab one of these battery load testers.These old school toaster testers are still one of the best battery testers available to the home guy who wants to test his battery

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

 

[Dean2]

How far do you drive home after the start in Cold weather. Cold start sucks lots of juice, short trip home, not far enough to full recover charge. I agree with the other guys, think your battery is on the way out. Easy check, take a meter and read your battery voltage before you start the truck in the parkade the next morning. Anything below 12.9 time for new battery. Most guys have volt meters but like Wild One said, the toaster style load tester is an even better tool.

 

[BHop88]

Thanks fellas.

The issues started in the winter of 2021/2022. I replaced the battery in spring of 2022 and had numerous servicing's since, including leaving the truck overnight at mechanic shops to try and replicate the issues. Jobs changing shortly and i'll have a bit longer of a drive home and will drive some highways tonight. Previously the drive would be 10-15 minutes and wouldn't get above 50km/hr so that could be it.

The flutter was worse at the start of today en route to work and ended up with a P26AB (07E*) code which I see is a Collant Bypass valve issue. I've had this code before, it's been inspected by two different mechanics and cleared after being checked ok.

Will give the highway a go, get a volt meter and hope for for some improvements before finding a new mechanic. The truck runs fine, it's just these damn parkade starts.

Will keep an eye to this thread and update if certain things seem to work or not work. Appreciate the input

 

[crash68]

The flutter was worse at the start of today en route to work and ended up with a P26AB (07E*) code which I see is a Collant Bypass valve issue.

I don't think this valve would cause the starting issue as it just switches coolant from the heater core to the transmission TMU. Although if the valve is leaking internally it could mess the electronics affecting the ECM.

 

[RamDiver]

Thanks fellas.

The issues started in the winter of 2021/2022. I replaced the battery in spring of 2022 and had numerous servicing's since, including leaving the truck overnight at mechanic shops to try and replicate the issues. Jobs changing shortly and i'll have a bit longer of a drive home and will drive some highways tonight. Previously the drive would be 10-15 minutes and wouldn't get above 50km/hr so that could be it.

The flutter was worse at the start of today en route to work and ended up with a P26AB (07E*) code which I see is a Collant Bypass valve issue. I've had this code before, it's been inspected by two different mechanics and cleared after being checked ok.

Will give the highway a go, get a volt meter and hope for for some improvements before finding a new mechanic. The truck runs fine, it's just these damn parkade starts.

Will keep an eye to this thread and update if certain things seem to work or not work. Appreciate the input

A drive time of 10 or 15 minutes, especially after sitting all day in the cold is much too short to recharge your battery.

I'll bet the starting gets much worse after multiple days of cold weather.

Do you have any ability to plug in a battery minder while parked overnight?

Most batteries won't survive any extended period of this type of abuse. A load test will let you know if that battery is worth keeping.

The toaster style load testers, as linked above, are the best. You will never see false positive results on these.

.

 

[Wild one]

Thanks fellas.

The issues started in the winter of 2021/2022. I replaced the battery in spring of 2022 and had numerous servicing's since, including leaving the truck overnight at mechanic shops to try and replicate the issues. Jobs changing shortly and i'll have a bit longer of a drive home and will drive some highways tonight. Previously the drive would be 10-15 minutes and wouldn't get above 50km/hr so that could be it.

The flutter was worse at the start of today en route to work and ended up with a P26AB (07E*) code which I see is a Collant Bypass valve issue. I've had this code before, it's been inspected by two different mechanics and cleared after being checked ok.

Will give the highway a go, get a volt meter and hope for for some improvements before finding a new mechanic. The truck runs fine, it's just these damn parkade starts.

Will keep an eye to this thread and update if certain things seem to work or not work. Appreciate the input

A multimeter/volt meter is good to have,but to actually load test a battery you want a battery tester.The one i linked to,is still one of the best battery testers a home guy can have.Stay away from the digital style battery testers,they aren't as good at letting you know the actual state of your battery

 

[BHop88]

A drive time of 10 or 15 minutes, especially after sitting all day in the cold is much too short to recharge your battery.

I'll bet the starting gets much worse after multiple days of cold weather.

Do you have any ability to plug in a battery minder while parked overnight?

Most batteries won't survive any extended period of this type of abuse. A load test will let you know if that battery is worth keeping.

The toaster style load testers, as linked above, are the best. You will never see false positive results on these.

.

Just wanting to ask a question in regards to this.

When it comes to "abuse". Would the truck fair better by remaining outside in all temps vs being parked in a temperature controlled parkade?

Will be picking up a couple things today and see if the battery is the issue. It's a new battery and proper for the truck so just weird that the battery would be going out so soon

 

[Dean2]

Just wanting to ask a question in regards to this.

When it comes to "abuse". Would the truck fair better by remaining outside in all temps vs being parked in a temperature controlled parkade?

Will be picking up a couple things today and see if the battery is the issue. It's a new battery and proper for the truck so just weird that the battery would be going out so soon

No, parking outside all the time will just make it worse. It is possible your alternator is not throwing a full charge either. Fifteen minutes is not a long time to recharge the draw from cold starting but on a new battery and if the Alternator is throwing out between 14.5 and 15 volts on the drive home, it should get it charged. If the alternator is showing the right output on your gauges, I would perma mount a Noco 2 amp smart charger in there and plug it in every night when you get home.

 

[RamDiver]

Just wanting to ask a question in regards to this.

When it comes to "abuse". Would the truck fair better by remaining outside in all temps vs being parked in a temperature controlled parkade?

Will be picking up a couple things today and see if the battery is the issue. It's a new battery and proper for the truck so just weird that the battery would be going out so soon

As Dean mentioned, no, leaving your truck in the cold does not address the issue.

The problem that has been created by your SOP, is that the battery is placed under a significant load during every start in the morning, driven a short distance, where the alternator has insufficient time to recharge it, and then sits in the cold all day.

This sort of battery abuse will have an accumulative effect. You might get away with this action, now and again, with a healthy battery but, doing this day in, and day out, the battery life expectancy will fly out the window and it WILL die a pre-mature death.

I would strongly suggest you suspend any related purchases other than a battery load tester and/or a multimeter.
A load tester will quickly determine if your battery is not useful for another season.

A quick check of your alternator performance using a multimeter would also be advisable.

Test and verification are always best before replacing most parts. Some people have luck with the parts cannon approach but troubleshooting and testing will teach you valuable skills and likely reduce costs significantly.

If the alternator is showing the right output on your gauges, I would perma mount a Noco 2 amp smart charger in there and plug it in every night when you get home.

^^^^^^
And this would be a great idea to remedy the lack of charging on frequent short trips.
I plan to do something similar to deal with my occasional short trips into town during the cold season.

.

 

[GTyankee]

First thing to look at is the proper battery size.
I don't know what battery size goes into a V6.

You can never go smaller than the OEM size, it will alway cause issues.

I once had a under sized battery in a performance car.
If i drove around 100 miles & shut that vehicle off, i would have to wait until the engine block was cold before i could start it.

I started carrying a set of 8 gauge jumper cables with me
I would beg people to jump that car, some times i bribed them with the brew of their choice.

One day i drove that vehicle to a battery shop that rebuilt batteries in the back room.
I drove to the back door to buy a battery for my 1956 Chevy truck, after i put the battery in the car, the car decided that it was a good time to give me trouble.

Without being asked, the guy jumped off the dock & looked at the car battery.
Almost immediately, he told me that the battery was under sized.
I left there a happy soul

 

[Wild one]

Just wanting to ask a question in regards to this.

When it comes to "abuse". Would the truck fair better by remaining outside in all temps vs being parked in a temperature controlled parkade?

Will be picking up a couple things today and see if the battery is the issue. It's a new battery and proper for the truck so just weird that the battery would be going out so soon

Did you stop by your local Crappy Tire and pick up one of these yet,they're cheaper at Crappy Tire then Princess Auto.

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

 

[BHop88]

Heh appreciating the comments and personal stories thanks all.

So after hearing about the quick drives home at low speed being a battery killer, I decided on my last night shift to take some highways home. Added a few minutes but got up to 100km/hr in some spots. The temp overnight got down to around -9 so would've been within the threshold of a **** start the following day in the parkade.

Alas, my truck started just fine the following day (go figure). The temps have risen and will be higher over the next couple of days so I'm not expecting any starting issues. I'll be out later today to pick up a the volt meter a few of you have suggested and will be monitoring as the temps drop again. I've changed where I work now since the start of this post and involved a longer drive and highway driving so hoping not to have any replicated issues.

As for the battery, from memory I did some research for my specific vehicle and came to this.

https://tires.costco.ca/Batteries/Product?ItemNo=270545&batteryname=Group-H7-Automotive-Battery&BatteryType=Automotive&lang=en-ca

Will post back if I find this to be a faulty battery or simply just an idiot and got the wrong one. I do remember mentioning this to my mechanics when the issue was going on and the battery / connectors were tested and every seemed to be working correctly.

Cheers

 

[RamDiver]

Heh appreciating the comments and personal stories thanks all.

So after hearing about the quick drives home at low speed being a battery killer, I decided on my last night shift to take some highways home. Added a few minutes but got up to 100km/hr in some spots. The temp overnight got down to around -9 so would've been within the threshold of a **** start the following day in the parkade.

Alas, my truck started just fine the following day (go figure). The temps have risen and will be higher over the next couple of days so I'm not expecting any starting issues. I'll be out later today to pick up a the volt meter a few of you have suggested and will be monitoring as the temps drop again. I've changed where I work now since the start of this post and involved a longer drive and highway driving so hoping not to have any replicated issues.

As for the battery, from memory I did some research for my specific vehicle and came to this.

https://tires.costco.ca/Batteries/Product?ItemNo=270545&batteryname=Group-H7-Automotive-Battery&BatteryType=Automotive&lang=en-ca

Will post back if I find this to be a faulty battery or simply just an idiot and got the wrong one. I do remember mentioning this to my mechanics when the issue was going on and the battery / connectors were tested and every seemed to be working correctly.

Cheers

That's great news if your battery is still functional.

If the battery linked above, is what you have installed, that is more than sufficient but could still use a bit of help from a block heater and an occasional trickle charge, especially in your winter climate conditions.

You say that, you have a longer drive to work, including some highway but, you didn't say how long the drive is in minutes.

Also, you haven't indicated if you have the ability to plug in a trickle charger or block heater, inside your "parkade".

If you read your manual, it does suggest plugging in below a specific temperature. If you have to pay the hydro, install a timer to pre-heat for 3 hours before your expected departure time.

I plan to buy a less expensive, low-current Noco charger to install under the hood, as Dean suggested. I won't constantly use it, just periodically and definitely after short trips, especially in the winter.

.

 

[turkeybird56]

A drive time of 10 or 15 minutes, especially after sitting all day in the cold is much too short to recharge your battery.

I'll bet the starting gets much worse after multiple days of cold weather.

Do you have any ability to plug in a battery minder while parked overnight?

Most batteries won't survive any extended period of this type of abuse. A load test will let you know if that battery is worth keeping.

The toaster style load testers, as linked above, are the best. You will never see false positive results on these.

.

DITTO REF above. Short trips on these electrical gremlin monsters do in a battery quick also. I even have that problem here in TX, where it does not normally get cold, tho it was 38F this AM and they talking under freezing for a few mornings (Frozen Boird). My truck does not run as often, mostly short stints to town, so I do track what the TIPM is telling alt system to charge. I know when battery has drained down a bit, when I see the system commanding 14.8V to charge. SO I will run around for a while, to get it down to 14.5/6 before parking. BUT if I just do not have the time, I have a Harley Davidson 850 Ma weather proof 12V battery tender, which I use on my MC and Lawn Mower. I just go to garage, bring up to the house and hook up to the RAM and leave plugged in overnight to bring battery to full charge.

FTR: All my trips are short duration, so I have learned to keep an eye on battery state, just how these beasts are now.

 

[Marshall]

My truck is OK, but wife has a Honda CRV, in winter it may sit for a week or two, in the garage.
After a week or 2 most times it will not start as they use a puny little battery , it has been load tested is good, faily new. If used every few days , it always starts fine.
I have used a good meter and current draw is where it should be at , so no problem there.
I got a little battery minder , 2 amp and installed on the battery frame and plug it in if it going sit for a while.
It will hold the battery at 13.2v and spins over faster then usual.
I would do that if you have power at your parking space.
As Ramdiver said , too short of a drive, If I run up town for a fast trip , I will use the gear buttons and keep it in 4 or5 th to keep the RPM's up around 2k when it warms up.

 

[turkeybird56]

My truck is OK, but wife has a Honda CRV, in winter it may sit for a week or two, in the garage.
After a week or 2 most times it will not start as they use a puny little battery , it has been load tested is good, faily new. If used every few days , it always starts fine.
I have used a good meter and current draw is where it should be at , so no problem there.
I got a little battery minder , 2 amp and installed on the battery frame and plug it in if it going sit for a while.
It will hold the battery at 13.2v and spins over faster then usual.
I would do that if you have power at your parking space.
As Ramdiver said , too short of a drive, If I run up town for a fast trip , I will use the gear buttons and keep it in 4 or5 th to keep the RPM's up around 2k when it warms up.

My Honda Motorcycle does OK, since it is a 2006, does not have all those systems or an alarm running in the background. If I do not run the bike for 2 weeks when sitting in winter, I plug in the tender and let it bring it back up to a full state charge then goes into tender mode. Also do use on my riding lawn mower, as that battery is always not where it needs to be, since it is fully dependent upon a magneto to charge when running. I think I am going to go and get a 12 Volt 2 position switch and cut into the lighting wiring, and interrupt the front headlights. Newer mower, lights on all the time, would definitely help to not have to power the lights when trying to start in winter. Just a thought.

BUT back on TOPIC: These new rolling computers need to have a good battery charged up well, or when they get weak, you are gonna get the Christmas tree warning lights on the dashboard and possible no start if it is battery related. The idea of wiring in a Noco charger/tender not a bad idea for the Northern tier folks where their vehicles and subjected to many many days of sub zero temps.