Time for some new heads

[ScottS]

Part two of this thread: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/time-for-a-new-engine.154379/

Have put about 9K miles on the new engine. About two weeks ago, I noticed that the engine would stumble and miss for ten or twenty seconds on initial startup and then smooth out and run fine all day. A few days ago, I was filling the tank and the engine just shut off. I restarted it and there's a random top end rattle on the passenger side that sounds a lot like the bent valve I had when the timing was off. I haven't had time to confirm, but I suspect it has dropped a valve seat. This engine has never overheated. Since I have spent 8K on this rebuild, I now do not trust these heads and am leaning toward some brand new castings (Thitek). Any thoughts/other recommendations?

 

[WY.Ram]

Part two of this thread: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/time-for-a-new-engine.154379/

Have put about 9K miles on the new engine. About two weeks ago, I noticed that the engine would stumble and miss for ten or twenty seconds on initial startup and then smooth out and run fine all day. A few days ago, I was filling the tank and the engine just shut off. I restarted it and there's a random top end rattle on the passenger side that sounds a lot like the bent valve I had when the timing was off. I haven't had time to confirm, but I suspect it has dropped a valve seat. This engine has never overheated. Since I have spent 8K on this rebuild, I now do not trust these heads and am leaning toward some brand new castings (Thitek). Any thoughts/other recommendations?

New heads - this is a great topic for me. My 6.4 had a hard tick about 7days ago as I pulled off the Interstate. I had been driving it fairly hard 85 to 90mph but Temps and oil pressure were all well within specs, drove another 10mi going 25mph to 35mph, the tick cleared but that was my warning, I think. A valvetrain upgrade has been on the table for the last 40k mi or so, its time before the good parts of the motor get trashed.

I'm hesitating between having these OE heads machined and all new parts put in or just making the jump to a set of Thytek heads. It looks like they sell a fairly aggressive head for the 5.7L Hemi for $3700, Im hoping they do a set for the 6.4L BGE. Also, I couldnt quite discern if those heads were naked or loaded, core return or free and clear. (Well, far from free).

I have yet to read of anyone running Thytek heads on their Hemi or really any other aftermarket heads, i havent used the search function either tho. Ill try that, very thirsty for info myself. I dont think we could go wrong with Thytek, go broke for a bit maybe. One major variable for me is if the heads come assembled and dialed in or if that part is on us. Im not equipped or knowledgeable in such detailed cylinder head assembly nor do I have any place that I know who offers such a service, I'd probably have to throw a dart at a f Google search and ........well f that.

For the gold you have invested in your current setup, I'm assuming a decent amount of head work is included in that and you don't sound as though you would recommend investing too much into the OE heads?

I've had Jay Greene do some tuning on mine, phenomenal, and I was going to see what he suggests as a good match for one of his custom valve train setups. I haven't reached out to him yet, been buried with work but next day or two is looking doable.

You probably have much more info than me, I'll offer up any thing I learn from Jay and continue to follow your thread to see what you decide, for sure.

Scattered post sorry, it was a hella long night at work. I'm too waxed to even try to clean it up. I just keep adding more words......


'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd • 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels • Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium • CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 • z36, EBC • Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint • Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics • AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass •.................

 

[Wild one]

New heads - this is a great topic for me. My 6.4 had a hard tick about 7days ago as I pulled off the Interstate. I had been driving it fairly hard 85 to 90mph but Temps and oil pressure were all well within specs, drove another 10mi going 25mph to 35mph, the tick cleared but that was my warning, I think. A valvetrain upgrade has been on the table for the last 40k mi or so, its time before the good parts of the motor get trashed.

I'm hesitating between having these OE heads machined and all new parts put in or just making the jump to a set of Thytek heads. It looks like they sell a fairly aggressive head for the 5.7L Hemi for $3700, Im hoping they do a set for the 6.4L BGE. Also, I couldnt quite discern if those heads were naked or loaded, core return or free and clear. (Well, far from free).

I have yet to read of anyone running Thytek heads on their Hemi or really any other aftermarket heads, i havent used the search function either tho. Ill try that, very thirsty for info myself. I dont think we could go wrong with Thytek, go broke for a bit maybe. One major variable for me is if the heads come assembled and dialed in or if that part is on us. Im not equipped or knowledgeable in such detailed cylinder head assembly nor do I have any place that I know who offers such a service, I'd probably have to throw a dart at a f Google search and ........well f that.

For the gold you have invested in your current setup, I'm assuming a decent amount of head work is included in that and you don't sound as though you would recommend investing too much into the OE heads?

I've had Jay Greene do some tuning on mine, phenomenal, and I was going to see what he suggests as a good match for one of his custom valve train setups. I haven't reached out to him yet, been buried with work but next day or two is looking doable.

You probably have much more info than me, I'll offer up any thing I learn from Jay and continue to follow your thread to see what you decide, for sure.

Scattered post sorry, it was a hella long night at work. I'm too waxed to even try to clean it up. I just keep adding more words......


'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd • 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels • Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium • CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 • z36, EBC • Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint • Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics • AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass •.................

There's a few guys on the high performance ram facebook pages running Craigs/Thetiek's heads.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/930...if_id=1593367588023477&notif_t=group_activity

This is a good site for 6.4 builds

https://www.facebook.com/groups/261520041117278

 

[ScottS]

New heads - this is a great topic for me. My 6.4 had a hard tick about 7days ago as I pulled off the Interstate. I had been driving it fairly hard 85 to 90mph but Temps and oil pressure were all well within specs, drove another 10mi going 25mph to 35mph, the tick cleared but that was my warning, I think. A valvetrain upgrade has been on the table for the last 40k mi or so, its time before the good parts of the motor get trashed.

I'm hesitating between having these OE heads machined and all new parts put in or just making the jump to a set of Thytek heads. It looks like they sell a fairly aggressive head for the 5.7L Hemi for $3700, Im hoping they do a set for the 6.4L BGE. Also, I couldnt quite discern if those heads were naked or loaded, core return or free and clear. (Well, far from free).

I have yet to read of anyone running Thytek heads on their Hemi or really any other aftermarket heads, i havent used the search function either tho. Ill try that, very thirsty for info myself. I dont think we could go wrong with Thytek, go broke for a bit maybe. One major variable for me is if the heads come assembled and dialed in or if that part is on us. Im not equipped or knowledgeable in such detailed cylinder head assembly nor do I have any place that I know who offers such a service, I'd probably have to throw a dart at a f Google search and ........well f that.

For the gold you have invested in your current setup, I'm assuming a decent amount of head work is included in that and you don't sound as though you would recommend investing too much into the OE heads?

I've had Jay Greene do some tuning on mine, phenomenal, and I was going to see what he suggests as a good match for one of his custom valve train setups. I haven't reached out to him yet, been buried with work but next day or two is looking doable.

You probably have much more info than me, I'll offer up any thing I learn from Jay and continue to follow your thread to see what you decide, for sure.

Scattered post sorry, it was a hella long night at work. I'm too waxed to even try to clean it up. I just keep adding more words......


'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd • 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels • Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium • CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 • z36, EBC • Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint • Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics • AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass •.................

Jay did my tune. I have his cam and lifter kit. He likes https://www.besracing.com heads, which are distributed by http://www.highhorseperformance.com/

My heads have not been "worked" other than valve job and adding Jay's spring and pushrod recommendations.

I haven't talked to them yet (BES) about how they address the valve seat problem, but since my heads have never overheated and seem to have dropped a seat "just because", I'm leery of all stock castings. I would have to be convinced about the reliability of the seats in all of these stock casting ported heads that are out there. Specifically, what have they done to the seats to fix the inherent problem. I actually bought new seats for my heads at the time of the build, but my machine shop wanted $25 each to install them. Hindsight is what it is, but the fact is that I had spent every cent I had and they told me not to worry about it since the heads had never run hot.

The thing that has me leaning toward new Thitek castings is the fact that everything is new and their approach to the valve seat issue is convincing. And, as an added bonus, the heads are interchangeable from left to right. They offer them bare or fully assembled with beehive or double springs and your choice of valve size. https://www.shophemi.com sells them assembled for $3800. But they are obviously more expensive.

Then there is this option: https://shop.inertiamotorsports.com/main.sc

Their heads sound like they are on par with BES, but they're still stock castings. But their write-up in that link is very informative. Of course it could be snake oil, but that's why I throw it out there; in case anyone has any experience with them.

I would love to be able to trust stock castings simply because of the cost difference, but I've got to have reliability since I often work out of this truck and my Impala doesn't tote a ladder very well. And, just in case someone is tempted to say, "modded vehicles aren't reliable for work"; don't. The Impala is an LT based 383 6 speed with ported heads and all the rest with over 20K miles and zero problems from the start as an EMS response vehicle. There's no excuse not to have the best of both worlds with today's technology. Uh oh.... I'm on the verge of a rant there. Sorry. Just a little frustrated.

 

[Wild one]

Jay did my tune. I have his cam and lifter kit. He likes https://www.besracing.com heads, which are distributed by http://www.highhorseperformance.com/

My heads have not been "worked" other than valve job and adding Jay's spring and pushrod recommendations.

I haven't talked to them yet (BES) about how they address the valve seat problem, but since my heads have never overheated and seem to have dropped a seat "just because", I'm leery of all stock castings. I would have to be convinced about the reliability of the seats in all of these stock casting ported heads that are out there. Specifically, what have they done to the seats to fix the inherent problem. I actually bought new seats for my heads at the time of the build, but my machine shop wanted $25 each to install them. Hindsight is what it is, but the fact is that I had spent every cent I had and they told me not to worry about it since the heads had never run hot.

The thing that has me leaning toward new Thitek castings is the fact that everything is new and their approach to the valve seat issue is convincing. And, as an added bonus, the heads are interchangeable from left to right. They offer them bare or fully assembled with beehive or double springs and your choice of valve size. https://www.shophemi.com sells them assembled for $3800. But they are obviously more expensive.

Then there is this option: https://shop.inertiamotorsports.com/main.sc

Their heads sound like they are on par with BES, but they're still stock castings. But their write-up in that link is very informative. Of course it could be snake oil, but that's why I throw it out there; in case anyone has any experience with them.

I would love to be able to trust stock castings simply because of the cost difference, but I've got to have reliability since I often work out of this truck and my Impala doesn't tote a ladder very well. And, just in case someone is tempted to say, "modded vehicles aren't reliable for work"; don't. The Impala is an LT based 383 6 speed with ported heads and all the rest with over 20K miles and zero problems from the start as an EMS response vehicle. There's no excuse not to have the best of both worlds with today's technology. Uh oh.... I'm on the verge of a rant there. Sorry. Just a little frustrated.

Lets see a picture of this so-called dropped seat.The seat issues aren't very common on the 09+ Hemi's,and as far as i can tell you haven't pulled the heads yet,and you're assuming it's a dropped seat,so lets have a picture of this dropped seat.

 

[ScottS]

Lets see a picture of this so-called dropped seat.The seat issues aren't very common on the 09+ Hemi's,and as far as i can tell you haven't pulled the heads yet,and you're assuming it's a dropped seat,so lets have a picture of this dropped seat.

Mighty observant of you to "assume" that I am "assuming" a dropped seat, since I specifically said, "I haven't had time to confirm, but I suspect it has dropped a valve seat." When I pull the heads, I will post some pics. In the mean time, I would appreciate any input folks might have concerning after market heads. That's what the post was all about. In fact, your comment that this is not common for "09+ Hemi's" is actually helpful. So, thanks for that.

 

[Wild one]

Mighty observant of you to "assume" that I am "assuming" a dropped seat, since I specifically said, "I haven't had time to confirm, but I suspect it has dropped a valve seat." When I pull the heads, I will post some pics. In the mean time, I would appreciate any input folks might have concerning after market heads. That's what the post was all about. In fact, your comment that this is not common for "09+ Hemi's" is actually helpful. So, thanks for that.

You're better off asking about aftermarket heads on the high performance facebook pages. You'll find more info about them on the active facebook pages then you will here.I posted a couple links above,if you're not member of them,probably worth your time joining them,as you'll find more info on hi-po engine builds on facebook

 

[WY.Ram]

This thread has given me great info so far, I will definitely check out included links and start preparing my wife for the upcoming cost verse that of a new truck. Lol

I too liked the left-right symmetrical design from Thitek, figured if they are assembled then Im sure to be able to get them on the correct bank, at least one of em anyway.

Anybody like free beer, indoor engine work, and have valvetrain / head swap experience with modern Hemi engines?? (No experience necessary but Beer volume based on experience (internal Hemi engine work experience, not beer drinking experience, but both would be in your favor, lol))!
CO based, flexible schedule -weekdays, weeknights, weekends, whatever works.

Requirements - non negotiable, gotta love your RAM.

'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd • 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels • Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium • CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 • z36, EBC • Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint • Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics • AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass •.................

 

[ScottS]

This thread has given me great info so far, I will definitely check out included links and start preparing my wife for the upcoming cost verse that of a new truck. Lol

I too liked the left-right symmetrical design from Thitek, figured if they are assembled then Im sure to be able to get them on the correct bank, at least one of em anyway.

Anybody like free beer, indoor engine work, and have valvetrain / head swap experience with modern Hemi engines?? (No experience necessary but Beer volume based on experience (internal Hemi engine work experience, not beer drinking experience, but both would be in your favor, lol))!
CO based, flexible schedule -weekdays, weeknights, weekends, whatever works.

Requirements - non negotiable, gotta love your RAM.

'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd • 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels • Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium • CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 • z36, EBC • Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint • Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics • AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass •.................

Heck, if I lived out your way, I'd come help just for grins. I enjoy doing my own work, just not redoing it....again. But I ain't giving up on the beast. Pretty soon ol' Murphy's gotta go mess with someone else.

 

[ScottS]

Step one. Remove spark plugs.
Found this one in the second hole from the front on the passenger side.



With an inspection camera, I can see tiny pot marks on top of the piston. Not sure at this point whether this plug just failed or something rattling around in there broke it. Further investigation to come as time allows.

 

[ScottS]

Compression check was good. Replaced the plug and all is well. Would never have thought a spark plug could make so much noise.

 

[Wild one]

Compression check was good. Replaced the plug and all is well. Would never have thought a spark plug could make so much noise.

Dropped seats aren't as big a problem on the newer heads like they used to be on the older pre-09 heads.Those plugs have definitely seen better days,i hope you replaced all the plugs,not just those 2,lol.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Delete

 

[ScottS]

Dropped seats aren't as big a problem on the newer heads like they used to be on the older pre-09 heads.Those plugs have definitely seen better days,i hope you replaced all the plugs,not just those 2,lol.

The rest looked a lot better. Only about 9K miles on them.