Tire Balancing on lifted truck-(solved)

[RaptorHD]

Here is a good video on how the centramatic balancers work, the benefits of using these is very apparent, fuel savings, longer tread life, less wear and tear on the drivetrain etc etc...

How Centramatic Balancers Work

Video demonstration showing how on-board wheel balancers from Centramatic work.

www.youtube.com

Cheers!

 

[heckcat9]

Physics... for the shafts to be in a position to wobble or shake, they would have to spin--really fast! This is why they do not balance CV shafts for the most part..
Ok, Physics; The farther weight is applied from the center or rotation, the more the force is felt. Since a CV shaft is not very large in diameter any imbalance would be minimal..
This is why tires and wheels need to be balanced, not only does what I said apply, but the wheel in rotation stores energy, so when you put Precession in to play the steering components will amplify any issues with worn components.
Mostly, when you get wobble from steering, the steering system moves back and forth (left to right) and the hydraulics try to compensate to force the wheel the opposite direction but its reaction is too slow so by the time it could compensate its behind and amplifies the error and the wobble will get worse fast until you slow down and reduce the effect and your are fighting precession...

A 35" tire at 70mph is spinning around 670 rpm. The axle, the brake disc, wheel, tire, all one unit. A small imperfection at the tread surface is moving around at a circumferential speed of 70mph (same as the road speed) but an imperfection at a reference radius of 1.5 inches is only going 6mph around its path and only imparts 0.7% as much force assuming identical mass.

A loose axle could produce vibration but first you would want to find out why it became loose (they don't just do that on their own) and also the scale at which this could produce vibration is dramatically lower than the scale at which a wheel problem would produce vibration. I'd be looking for another cause, even if the CV cup is damaged it's probably more symptom than genesis.

Thanks, I understand rotational inertia and how mass irregularities and their distances can affect the rotational axis/CoM and cause vibration. You both explained it differently but well haha.

My question was about the statement that our CV axles don't spin fast enough or at all in 2WD as I was under the impression their RPM scales with wheel RPM, which is now answered, thanks again. Bare with me I've only been a Ram owner for a few months here so I'm still getting to know these trucks.

 

[BWL]

If the CV joint has play in it then it's done so definitely needs changing and could be the cause. Depending on the type of lift the increased angle adds stress and causes it to fail sooner than in stock form. This is typical of spacer or spring lifts even with new UCAs, which many guys install to correct the ball joint alignment.

 

[RaptorHD]

If the CV joint has play in it then it's done so definitely needs changing and could be the cause. Depending on the type of lift the increased angle adds stress and causes it to fail sooner than in stock form. This is typical of spacer or spring lifts even with new UCAs, which many guys install to correct the ball joint alignment.

Will not cause the death wobble...

 

[RaptorHD]

Thanks, I understand rotational inertia and how mass irregularities and their distances can affect the rotational axis/CoM and cause vibration. You both explained it differently but well haha.

My question was about the statement that our CV axles don't spin fast enough or at all in 2WD as I was under the impression their RPM scales with wheel RPM, which is now answered, thanks again. Bare with me I've only been a Ram owner for a few months here so I'm still getting to know these trucks.

I never said it would not spin at all, its just not engaged to the whole drive train when in 2wd.

My explanation of the rotational forces comes from being a Gyrocompass Technician when I was in the Navy--back in the day I was also a Submariner (Nuclear) so I was basically an Instrumentation technician, later was an SF guy... At anyrate I have been to plenty of "Ahem" interesting schools and have learned alot about electronics, Nuclear Power, Diesels etc. Yeah, The Navy spent plenty of bucks on me..

 

[heckcat9]

Yeah, the death

I never said it would not spin at all, its just not engaged to the whole drive train when in 2wd.

My explanation of the rotational forces comes from being a Gyrocompass Technician when I was in the Navy--back in the day I was also a Submariner (Nuclear) so I was basically an Instrumentation technician, later was an SF guy... At anyrate I have been to plenty of "Ahem" interesting schools and have learned alot about electronics, Nuclear Power, Diesels etc. Yeah, The Navy spent plenty of bucks on me..

Nice man. I always regret not enlisting out of high school. A buddy of mine started out doing some clandestine work then shifted to a cushy office job in cyber with the AF. I took the college route and we both ended up as engineers but he had waaaay more fun getting there.

You totally did say "not engaged but it will spin". **** my read comprehension. These trucks seem to handle driveline vibrations well. In comparison the chinese CVs I very briefly had on my old Toyota caused some pretty gnarly vibration, even with the transfer case disengaged, and in 4WD, 55+ mph felt like the front end was about rumble apart.

 

[RaptorHD]

Yeah, the death

Nice man. I always regret not enlisting out of high school. A buddy of mine started out doing some clandestine work then shifted to a cushy office job in cyber with the AF. I took the college route and we both ended up as engineers but he had waaaay more fun getting there.

You totally did say "not engaged but it will spin". **** my read comprehension. These trucks seem to handle driveline vibrations well. In comparison the chinese CVs I very briefly had on my old Toyota caused some pretty gnarly vibration, even with the transfer case disengaged, and in 4WD, 55+ mph felt like the front end was about rumble apart.

Yup I sure did, how the system works in 2wd the transfer case drive shaft is not engaged, nor is your axle, you can see the wires etc on the front axle, so the only thing that spins is wheel, the rotor hub and the CV axle, not the gears or driveshaft..
So you see, the drivetrain is not engaged..

Funny, your friend and I have alot in common, I ended up after leaving the military doing stuff in other countries but my last job was with the USAF..

 

[heckcat9]

Yup I sure did, how the system works in 2wd the transfer case drive shaft is not engaged, nor is your axle, you can see the wires etc on the front axle, so the only thing that spins is wheel, the rotor hub and the CV axle, not the gears or driveshaft..
So you see, the drivetrain is not engaged..

Funny, your friend and I have alot in common, I ended up after leaving the military doing stuff in other countries but my last job was with the USAF..

That makes sense, that's what I originally assumed, but when I misread your post I thought you were implying the axles disconnect at the hubs somehow... I almost went out to double check my hubs to see if they are manual lockers.

That's pretty awesome, the Chair Force (LOL) seems to have some decent gigs. I've been looking at their cyber ops and intelligence roles but I'm not sure how I can take time off of my day job for basic + officer school while still paying the mortgage haha.

 

[BWL]

Will not cause the death wobble...

He didn't say death wobble as far as I read. Just a vibration at speed that shakes the steering wheel a bit. Wheel/tire problems as well as any Driveline issues could cause that. I get that when snow melts and freezes to the bottom of the wheel in the winter at times, but I know that's not the issue here.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the advice on the beads.... that is really what I wanted to know. I guess I'll keep hunting for a place that can balance them right.

I thought that was a lot of weight for one tire, so I decided to check the other tires. Below is a layout of how much weight on each wheel.
(not sure how much each square is)
Front left- 17 x squares / Front right - 4 x squares
Rear left - 4 x squares / Rear right - 18 x squares

I do not know how the off road shop balanced them... I was not impressed with their set up. They didn't even have a lift, just a guy jacking each tire up individually.

Op

Having spent a number of hours on a tire machine working for my dad back in the day, from the looks of your wheels and weight placement I have two observations and one recommendation

First observation it appears your wheels are being static balanced by the placement of the weights near the middle of the wheel. Most dynamic balancers will use stick on weights on the inside of the wheel and clamp on weights on the lip of the wheel on the back side, where you can't see. Putting them in the middle is what I was taught to be static balanced which could even be completed on a bubble machine.

Second, given your explanation of the amount of weights on each wheel, I was taught. You always put the tires with the least weight on the front if possible and those with heavier weights in the rear. This reduced shake.

Last, my recommendation, the two wheels with heavier weights, I recommend you ask the tire shop to break the tire down and spin it 180 degrees re inflate and then try balancing again. This moves the weight of the tire around and usually reduces the amount required to balance. That why some manufacturers put colored dots on tires to match up to the valve stem.

My .02, I would not replace parts until I got the tires properly balanced.

 

[Moose2]

I use balancing beads for the big tires, and even the smaller ones sometimes. Whatever my mood is. They work.

 

[DILLIGAF]

I use balancing beads for the big tires, and even the smaller ones sometimes. Whatever my mood is. They work.

I used them in my SxS tires now as well.

 

[czervika]

Did I miss the resolution post?

 

[kurek]

Did I miss the resolution post?

No, OP went to another shop who pointed at the CV axle and said that's the problem but some of us have our doubts.

 

[RaptorHD]

I use balancing beads for the big tires, and even the smaller ones sometimes. Whatever my mood is. They work.

Balancing beads SUCK!

I Run Commercial tires and run the centramatic balancers, most OTR drivers do too... Its the guys that like to run as cheap as possible choose the beads..

 

[Moose2]

I used them in my SxS tires now as well.

Definitely for the atvs and s s. Trucks and cars Depends on my mood, I have my own tire machine and cheap balancer but sometimes tires can be a real chore to balance. I have even gave up on some and static “bubble” balanced in a pinch.....doesn’t change the balance requirement, just saved my sanity in those times of severe brain sharts!!!
I purchased my own tire equipment years ago when they tightened up the areas that were fixable vs unfixable. Bottom line, beads work And better to have all options then none at all.

 

[kurek]

Centramatics are not officially available for 1500's.

They have a set which fit - barely - but it's not sold as compatible and it's truly within molecules of rubbing on the front caliper - in fact may not even absolutely clear the front caliper if you have brand new rotors and pads. With spacers somebody could mount the Centramatic between the hub spacer and the wheel but that only makes sense if you were going to use spacers already.

 

[Snacktime]

I would get rid of the Nitros, once they get a little out of wear they progressively get worse. Worst $1200 set of tires I have ever bought were my last Nittos. Only tires I have had to balance every rotation. Every time I rotated the fronts to the back I would get a rear tire vibration. I think Nitto had a bad run of tires and I ended up with a set. The amount of wheel weights in the picture is a symptom.

I think you are fighting a few things. CV shaft, worn front component (something causing the CV issues/to much lift) and out of round tire.

 

[GhostCost]

Sorry for the sidebar, but this thread title says "solved" but it doesn't seem to be solved after six pages. Is there a fix I missed somewhere?

 

[heckcat9]

Sorry for the sidebar, but this thread title says "solved" but it doesn't seem to be solved after six pages. Is there a fix I missed somewhere?

Some shop mentioned to OP that it may be the CV axles. It's a possibility, but it's less likely that it's the CVs causing the issue. OP hasn't updated yet.