Tow mode or not ?

[ramffml]

Notice the "and" in that section. No reason to use Tow/Haul if the tranny is not hunting and you're not towing in "hilly areas".

The Ram manual is like a buffet around here, we pick and choose from it as we see fit lol. The question is, what gives your truck the best performance? That is will be with T/H activated. Running it on heavier loads is critical, running it on lighter loads doesn't hurt anything whatsoever.

Doesn't work that way with the Cummins. CC holds the speed amazingly well up and down hills, even with a trailer, with no dramatics. Might kick down from 6th to 5th now and again, but none of the high revving frenetics of the gas motors.

The Cummins redlines at what, 3200 or so? You're definitely going to be working it near that point, just like gas motors work best near their redline. It's all relative.

 

[turkeybird56]

Doesn't work that way with the Cummins. CC holds the speed amazingly well up and down hills, even with a trailer, with no dramatics. Might kick down from 6th to 5th now and again, but none of the high revving frenetics of the gas motors.

NEVA had a Cummins. Only Diesel I ever owed was the ED, which of course not a Big Diesel, and behaved more like a gasser. SO I can only really attest to a gas vehicle.

 

[JayLeonard]

Doesn't work that way with the Cummins. CC holds the speed amazingly well up and down hills, even with a trailer, with no dramatics. Might kick down from 6th to 5th now and again, but none of the high revving frenetics of the gas motors.

Yes I use cruise in the mountains and hills when I can. It works especially well when there are switchbacks if going slow and geared down.

 

[John Jensen]

The Cummins redlines at what, 3200 or so? You're definitely going to be working it near that point, just like gas motors work best near their redline. It's all relative.

To make such a statement tells me you have never towed with a 2019+ HO.

I frequently tow my 9800 lb pull trailer over a 6%, 8 mile grade with some 8% sections. I tow in TH with CC set at either 60 or 65mph. As post #40 said, it climbs in 6th gear, some stretches it drops to 5th gear. I don't know why you say what you say as it is impossible to even get close to redline rpm at 65mph in 5th gear. Pulling my trailer 70mph in 6th gear I'm at 1855-60 rpm.

By the way, gas motors may work best near redline but not true for diesels. It isn't relative, diesels work best at torque levels.

 

[ramffml]

To make such a statement tells me you have never towed with a 2019+ HO.

I frequently tow my 9800 lb pull trailer over a 6%, 8 mile grade with some 8% sections. I tow in TH with CC set at either 60 or 65mph. As post #40 said, it climbs in 6th gear, some stretches it drops to 5th gear. I don't know why you say what you say as it is impossible to even get close to redline rpm at 65mph in 5th gear. Pulling my trailer 70mph in 6th gear I'm at 1855-60 rpm.

By the way, gas motors may work best near redline but not true for diesels. It isn't relative, diesels work best at torque levels.

You're pulling less than a third of the weight that the cummins can pull (35K +), no surprise your experience shows its hardly working. I'm pulling half my rated weight (well, the 3.92 is rated at 12000 and I pull half that) and my hemi will sit at 2300 RPMs all day long.

Gas motors work best just above peak torque, for the hemi that's going to be around 4500 to 5000 RPMs.

 

[John Jensen]

You're pulling less than a third of the weight that the cummins can pull (35K +), no surprise your experience shows its hardly working. I'm pulling half my rated weight (well, the 3.92 is rated at 12000 and I pull half that) and my hemi will sit at 2300 RPMs all day long.

Gas motors work best just above peak torque, for the hemi that's going to be around 4500 to 5000 RPMs.

I wasn't knocking your Hemi which is a great engine (now discontinued) and I'm glad you are pleased with it. Most owners are.

My only point was what you said is wrong, as it is impossible to even get close to redline in the example being discussed.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Sure would be nice if whatever Stellantis is now gave us a modern V8 for trucks. Hemi was, and is, always a race car engine where siamese valve breathing kicks in at 5,000 rpm (documented on recent Engine Masters dyno episode).

Yeah, it was fun for awhile to say you had a Hemi, but that wore off quickly. Give us a 4 valve head and tuned for lower rpm torque. Oh, well - my fantasy is just that.

 

[John Jensen]

Sure would be nice if whatever Stellantis is now gave us a modern V8 for trucks. Hemi was, and is, always a race car engine where siamese valve breathing kicks in at 5,000 rpm (documented on recent Engine Masters dyno episode).

Yeah, it was fun for awhile to say you had a Hemi, but that wore off quickly. Give us a 4 valve head and tuned for lower rpm torque. Oh, well - my fantasy is just that.

Do you suppose their new 3.0L Hurricane Twin-Turbo 510 I6 engine in the Jeep Wagoneer is their answer?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Do you suppose their new 3.0L Hurricane Twin-Turbo 510 I6 engine in the Jeep Wagoneer is their answer?

It's a European engine. It's not the answer. We've got Fiat and Peugeot dictating North American auto needs now. Dodge is dead and buried, thanks to Daimler-Benz driving them to bankruptcy. Chrysler was always just small enough for bigger companies to buy and sell. I remember Daimler paid $35B and sold for $7B. Horrendous opposite culture nonfit. Same with Fiat and Peugeot.

 

[ramffml]

I wasn't knocking your Hemi which is a great engine (now discontinued) and I'm glad you are pleased with it. Most owners are.

My only point was what you said is wrong, as it is impossible to even get close to redline in the example being discussed.

I didn't say you were hitting redline. I said it's all relative to redline. The hemi might be sitting at 80% redline to make peak power, but the cummins will be working at that same approx percentage. I've seen enough heavy towing videos on youtube, no question it will rev up high (relative to its redline). Your redline is much lower, so it just feels like you're cruising comfortably because you never see high RPMs.

I'm not 100% pleased with the hemi, mostly that's due to how it is tuned to run quite hot and there is that hemi tick that is always lurking there in the background. I don't have it, I hope to keep it that way. But in terms of daily driving and towing what I need to tow, it's a great choice. Performance is not lacking in any way as far as I'm concerned, even though at times it will need to rev high. She wants to sing, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ramffml]

It's a European engine. It's not the answer. We've got Fiat and Peugeot dictating North American auto needs now. Dodge is dead and buried, thanks to Daimler-Benz driving them to bankruptcy. Chrysler was always just small enough for bigger companies to buy and sell. I remember Daimler paid $35B and sold for $7B. Horrendous opposite culture nonfit. Same with Fiat and Peugeot.

The 3.0 has already been in production for years, it's basically the 2.0 T they put in the jeeps etc except now they just "bolted" another 2 cylinders on and did some tuning. But it basically was designed starting from the 2.0.

We'll see, I like to stay optimistic!

To your point above about the race engine, I thought the 6.4 BGE was a different tune/design, based on the other hemis but built specifically for truck duty? I've never towed with one, but reports here say it's a fantastic tow machine with the 8 speed anyway (seen enough reports about second(?) gear with the 6 speed).

 

[HEMIMANN]

The 3.0 has already been in production for years, it's basically the 2.0 T they put in the jeeps etc except now they just "bolted" another 2 cylinders on and did some tuning. But it basically was designed starting from the 2.0.

We'll see, I like to stay optimistic!

To your point above about the race engine, I thought the 6.4 BGE was a different tune/design, based on the other hemis but built specifically for truck duty? I've never towed with one, but reports here say it's a fantastic tow machine with the 8 speed anyway (seen enough reports about second(?) gear with the 6 speed).

Yes they took the Gen 3 Hemi and mod'd it as best they could for truck application. It is still not a truck engine from the ground up, is my point. Might be too much to ask, but the market today is / was not mostly cars, then a few trucks! It is mostly trucks with some cars.

I think the 6.4 truck was called 'Apache', or some such project code name. Yeah, they did some outlandishly stout things to the base motor like a forged steel crank, sodium-fill valves (really?!), PCM tuning, etc. But it STILL is a siamese valve race engine!

Open the breathing up @ low rpm with 4 valves per cylinder. Get rid of the crappy stove pipe exhaust manifold, use a tube or header. I doubt the thing could make enough torque to need race features like forged crank and sodium valves - those are either for diesel torque or high speed racing.

In fact, didn't they take some of the race engine architecture and plunk it into the 'Apache'? i.e. - they really developed some of this stuff for the Hellcat - not a towing truck.

 

[jejb]

The Ram manual is like a buffet around here, we pick and choose from it as we see fit lol. The question is, what gives your truck the best performance? That is will be with T/H activated. Running it on heavier loads is critical, running it on lighter loads doesn't hurt anything whatsoever.

That is not the question the OP asked. I never said running T/H when not needed hurt anything, just that I agree with the owners manual that it is not needed if the tranny is not doing a lot of hunting.

The Cummins redlines at what, 3200 or so? You're definitely going to be working it near that point, just like gas motors work best near their redline. It's all relative.

You need to drive a Ram HD diesel. They make their max torque, which is what pulls trailers, at about 1500-1700rpm. When mine kicks down on a big hill or mountain, it might be in the 2100rpm range in 5th for the rest of the climb, but nowhere near redline. I've owned both gas and diesel 3/4ton's over the years, pulling the same loads over the same mountains. Totally different experience in the diesel.

 

[jejb]

NEVA had a Cummins. Only Diesel I ever owed was the ED, which of course not a Big Diesel, and behaved more like a gasser. SO I can only really attest to a gas vehicle.

And I'm talking about the Cummins HD motors here. Both the one in our Ram and the one in our diesel pusher are low revving torque machines. The Duramax and PowerStroke V8 diesels I owned ran a bit more like a V8 gas motor, but the torque was still pretty low in the curve, and were not high revving climbers either.

 

[Riccochet]

I pretty much drive my 6.4 2500 in tow/haul 100% of the time, towing or not. It disables MDS which I can't stand when driving around town. I really don't care about saving that extra 1% of fuel that the computer is looking for by going to the highest gear possible.

The only exception is if I'm on a long highway drive, not towing, with cruise set I'll turn it off.

 

[68PowerWagon]

I am fairly certain my 16' 2500 locks out 6th when I am in tow haul, & of coarse MDS is disabled. The MDS doesn't bother me as much as it does other people. I do admit that the fuel savings with it is little to none. Seems like it costs more than what it saves over the lifetime of the vehicle. Probably would have been better off to do the engine shut off at stop lights like some other car makers. Can't say I would ever get used to that either.

 

[boblonben]

The 3.0 has already been in production for years, it's basically the 2.0 T they put in the jeeps etc except now they just "bolted" another 2 cylinders on and did some tuning. But it basically was designed starting from the 2.0.

We'll see, I like to stay optimistic!

To your point above about the race engine, I thought the 6.4 BGE was a different tune/design, based on the other hemis but built specifically for truck duty? I've never towed with one, but reports here say it's a fantastic tow machine with the 8 speed anyway (seen enough reports about second(?) gear with the 6 speed).

Do not know you got your info from but it is way off. The 2.0L in-line four is a joint Chrysler-Fiat design that came off the original Neon engine - used all over the world under various manufactures - like BMW, MB, Mazda, Nissan, etc. etc. It is even built in Brazil by VW as a pure ethanol fuel motor. And they are all great motors, reliable etc. The 3.0L V6 is yes a Fiat design, bought from GM and Vilberse of Italy and once again a great small diesel motor. Some mods were made by Chrysler for the North American market - i.e. more highway driving at our speeds, not European highway modes. Anyway, they are good motors, as is the Peugeot V6 , fours, and their desiels, some of the best in the world. So why knocking them, the world is the market now and we need to think that way, rather than stuck in old think. cheers

 

[ramffml]

Do not know you got your info from but it is way off. The 2.0L in-line four is a joint Chrysler-Fiat design that came off the original Neon engine - used all over the world under various manufactures - like BMW, MB, Mazda, Nissan, etc. etc. It is even built in Brazil by VW as a pure ethanol fuel motor. And they are all great motors, reliable etc. The 3.0L V6 is yes a Fiat design, bought from GM and Vilberse of Italy and once again a great small diesel motor. Some mods were made by Chrysler for the North American market - i.e. more highway driving at our speeds, not European highway modes. Anyway, they are good motors, as is the Peugeot V6 , fours, and their desiels, some of the best in the world. So why knocking them, the world is the market now and we need to think that way, rather than stuck in old think. cheers

I wasn't talking about the 3.0 eco diesel, I was talking about the new "hurricane" 3.0 turbo gasser which is replacing the hemi. The new 3.0 turbo is based off the block/design from the 2.0 turbo.

 

[DocCletus]

2021 3500 with the HO engine and Aisin tranny. Fixing to start pulling a 5th wheel (13K dry weight). I think yow/haul is a given, but what about the exhaust brake, on all the time or only when going downhill on long grades?

 

[Stephen Yale]

2019 RAM 1500 Rebel 5.7l Hemi. Tow mode disables 8th gear for me and limits to 7th. Only ever use tow mode when towing so I don't know if it disables 8th when a trailer is not attached. I will try.