Well this is one of the lower milege cam failures

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Sherman Bird

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Thanks for letting me know the "real world truth", I wasn't aware. I only keep up with the fake world truth.

All manufacturers have flaws. That's a given. There are plenty of Pentastar failures to commensurate my post.

Besides, we can't talk about the 3.6 on this post, or somebody will get upset. This is a HEMI post and only HEMI posts are allowed. :D
I'm thinking, that in today's world of manufacturing, combined with Fiat's extremely poor quality issues going WAY back, metallurgy from the annals of Italian quality from the old country, might be at the root of all these ailments in the engines.

Back in 1977, GM began reducing the amount of nickel in cast iron cylinder heads and engine blocks to save money. The results were cracks for no apparent reason in coolant passages leaking coolant into the cylinders and crankcases of new car engines.

Later, the casting of all aluminum engines (Northstar) was rife with coolant seepage to the outside world, and into other forbidden places within the engine. Their engineers came up with pills made from walnut shells, ginger, pepper, and a few other ingredients to plug up these points of seepages. Ain't THAT a kick in the head?!

I wonder if the old school Hemis were so riddled with cam/lifter failures? The predecessor of the 3.6 was an engine design (4.0L in-line 6) from Hudson/Studebaker/ AMC. Those engines also had cam/lifter failures after FCA took over.

The 3.7L/4.7L engines from the Mercedes era were from a basic 1960's Mercedes design, but they had their unique problems.

MAYBE the curse isn't from the materials these engines are made from so much, but the fact that they are laden with EEC computer systems which require extreme heat, and are capable of self destruction due to the algorithm of keeping a stoic of 14.7:1. come hell or high water. I've seen exhaust valves that looked like someone plasma cut them from the extremes of cylinder heat/ leanness, ala the computer EEC parameters.
 

EdGs

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It is wild how a failure can happen on a "new" part, and others seem to last forever.

The human factor is always involved somehow. I wonder how many failures are related to things being built on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning. Or before a break.

It would be interesting if it could be determined if part failures could be traced to a batch, but that is virtually impossible to prove since parts are not serialized.
 

Hagar1

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It is wild how a failure can happen on a "new" part, and others seem to last forever.

The human factor is always involved somehow. I wonder how many failures are related to things being built on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning. Or before a break.

It would be interesting if it could be determined if part failures could be traced to a batch, but that is virtually impossible to prove since parts are not serialized.
Well, to a certain extent, part failures can be traced to a "batch" by referring to the MDH on the vehicle door tag. The manufacturer know when that vehicle came down the line and can go back to the exact people that worked on it.
 

Sherman Bird

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It is wild how a failure can happen on a "new" part, and others seem to last forever.

The human factor is always involved somehow. I wonder how many failures are related to things being built on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning. Or before a break.

It would be interesting if it could be determined if part failures could be traced to a batch, but that is virtually impossible to prove since parts are not serialized.
That statement is not true of GM of yore. They did keep track of manufacture of parts by batch number. What they do now is anyone's guess.
 

star_deceiver

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There are plenty of Pentastar failures to commensurate my post.
There’s been about 14 million Pentastar 3.6L engines made. You’ve managed to point out their most common flaws, oil filter housing and lifters. Knowing this, one can take steps to try and mitigate or avoid these problems, like using better oil and changing it far more often than the 16000km oci, and buying spare parts for the day something fails.

Now, how many of those 14000000 engines have had these issues? I’m willing to bet it’s far less than 1%.
 

huntergreen

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The key to hemi longevity is treating them like a sports car, IMHO. High RPMs, sustained lengthy drives and the best oil you can afford. My 11 before it was sold at 150k got semi synthetic, up to about 80k, then RP then finally redline. At 150k, no engine problems, guy who purchased still drives daily no engine problems. My supercharged truck, redline, my 2016, redline, my new 2024, redline.

As the old fram commercial use to say, pay now or pay later.

Most don't keep a vehicle long enough to worry about issues, they drive and trade about warranty time.

I avg 10 years or more, so you have to invest in maintenance.

I've got 1 penstar in my 22 jeep. Doubtful it will cause problems but it might.

My experience
My 15 wrangler has 150000 miles, thanks to daughter who believes it’s hers, still runs like new. Not one repair, just maintenance. Enjoy your Jeep.
 

huntergreen

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Never said there weren't many happy owners. I said that these forums don't exist for people to sing praises. People seek out support due to a failed product. That's why the forums are here. People supporting people with vehicle issues. I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. My original comment still stands, and that is, I won't buy another RAM. I've turned enough wrenches on this truck (prematurely based on miles, but out of necessity) to know that the quality isn't there. I have friends with similar vehicles that have similar problems. And it's not from "poor maintenance" like you suggest. Proportions can be gauged by doing a quick internet search of these failures and seeing how many hits you get back. Every Charger, Challenger, RAM, Chrysler product forum is FULL of failed Pentastars (I believe that VW has this offering in some of their vehicles too, but never looked into it). It's why every parts house in North America has Pentastar parts and 10,000 internet sites have parts for it. It's a hugely widespread, in use engine with just as many failures. I don't own a hemi, so I can't speak directly of their failures, but it's obvious that the 5.7 has had it's share of shortcomings. BTW, why did you decide to regurge this story for your original post?
I get you’re upset, but what other brand guarantees you won’t have the same issue?
 

BenchTest

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I'm thinking, that in today's world of manufacturing, combined with Fiat's extremely poor quality issues going WAY back, metallurgy from the annals of Italian quality from the old country, might be at the root of all these ailments in the engines.

Back in 1977, GM began reducing the amount of nickel in cast iron cylinder heads and engine blocks to save money. The results were cracks for no apparent reason in coolant passages leaking coolant into the cylinders and crankcases of new car engines.

Later, the casting of all aluminum engines (Northstar) was rife with coolant seepage to the outside world, and into other forbidden places within the engine. Their engineers came up with pills made from walnut shells, ginger, pepper, and a few other ingredients to plug up these points of seepages. Ain't THAT a kick in the head?!

I wonder if the old school Hemis were so riddled with cam/lifter failures? The predecessor of the 3.6 was an engine design (4.0L in-line 6) from Hudson/Studebaker/ AMC. Those engines also had cam/lifter failures after FCA took over.

The 3.7L/4.7L engines from the Mercedes era were from a basic 1960's Mercedes design, but they had their unique problems.

MAYBE the curse isn't from the materials these engines are made from so much, but the fact that they are laden with EEC computer systems which require extreme heat, and are capable of self destruction due to the algorithm of keeping a stoic of 14.7:1. come hell or high water. I've seen exhaust valves that looked like someone plasma cut them from the extremes of cylinder heat/ leanness, ala the computer EEC parameters.
I remember the "Cadillac Pills" or "Cadillac Tablets". I have some AC Delco branded ones laying around somewhere. They work too.
 

BenchTest

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Now, how many of those 14000000 engines have had these issues? I’m willing to bet it’s far less than 1%.
I couldn't tell you that answer. I don't think any person could tell you that answer with any level of certainty.
 

BenchTest

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I get you’re upset, but what other brand guarantees you won’t have the same issue?
I don't think any brand guarantees anything beyond their initial warranty period. The particular issues I've discussed have happened well within warranty timeframes for a lot of customers. That would be the primary reason MANY dealerships have (or had, I don't know the current waits) vehicles waiting on cams/lifters/oil filter adapters sitting on their lots. Same reason the general public can't walk into a dealer parts house and buy what they need to make the repairs (again, don't know if that's the current situation, but was for quite some time). The upsetting part is that MOPAR put the same low quality parts in as replacements under warranty so that the consumer can continue to have the same failure/rates. Another upsetting part is that these parts were "redesigned/updated" several times and still have the same failures. It took the aftermarket to engineer a solution to several problems. Yes, that happens with all auto manufacturers, but we're discussing RAM and my discontent with them continuing to produce low quality. They have the lowest resale for a reason. They have the highest new vehicle purchase incentives for a reason. The simple fix for RAM and any other manufacturer - stand by your product and make it right. Even if it costs you money as a manufacturer, it'll pay in the long run through customer loyalty. Maybe not 100% across the board, but people remember what manufacturer treated them wrong and which one treated them right. This applies to every industry.
 

JHoward

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I don't think any brand guarantees anything beyond their initial warranty period. The particular issues I've discussed have happened well within warranty timeframes for a lot of customers. That would be the primary reason MANY dealerships have (or had, I don't know the current waits) vehicles waiting on cams/lifters/oil filter adapters sitting on their lots. Same reason the general public can't walk into a dealer parts house and buy what they need to make the repairs (again, don't know if that's the current situation, but was for quite some time). The upsetting part is that MOPAR put the same low quality parts in as replacements under warranty so that the consumer can continue to have the same failure/rates. Another upsetting part is that these parts were "redesigned/updated" several times and still have the same failures. It took the aftermarket to engineer a solution to several problems. Yes, that happens with all auto manufacturers, but we're discussing RAM and my discontent with them continuing to produce low quality. They have the lowest resale for a reason. They have the highest new vehicle purchase incentives for a reason. The simple fix for RAM and any other manufacturer - stand by your product and make it right. Even if it costs you money as a manufacturer, it'll pay in the long run through customer loyalty. Maybe not 100% across the board, but people remember what manufacturer treated them wrong and which one treated them right. This applies to every industry.

I mean, for Pete's sake ... there are other brands, sell or trade up on something else and go post on whatever brands forum and discuss your discontent that comes about, lol!

Happy motoring, and hammer down!
 
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BenchTest

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I mean, for Pete's sake ... there are other brands, sell or trade up and go post on whatever brands forum and discuss your discontent that comes about, lol

Happy motoring, and hammer down!
Insightful. Thanks for sharing.
 

huntergreen

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I don't think any brand guarantees anything beyond their initial warranty period. The particular issues I've discussed have happened well within warranty timeframes for a lot of customers. That would be the primary reason MANY dealerships have (or had, I don't know the current waits) vehicles waiting on cams/lifters/oil filter adapters sitting on their lots. Same reason the general public can't walk into a dealer parts house and buy what they need to make the repairs (again, don't know if that's the current situation, but was for quite some time). The upsetting part is that MOPAR put the same low quality parts in as replacements under warranty so that the consumer can continue to have the same failure/rates. Another upsetting part is that these parts were "redesigned/updated" several times and still have the same failures. It took the aftermarket to engineer a solution to several problems. Yes, that happens with all auto manufacturers, but we're discussing RAM and my discontent with them continuing to produce low quality. They have the lowest resale for a reason. They have the highest new vehicle purchase incentives for a reason. The simple fix for RAM and any other manufacturer - stand by your product and make it right. Even if it costs you money as a manufacturer, it'll pay in the long run through customer loyalty. Maybe not 100% across the board, but people remember what manufacturer treated them wrong and which one treated them right. This applies to every industry.
Along with quality parts, customer service is gone.

I worked in healthcare and have limited mechanical skill or knowledge so take this for what it’s worth. I’ve read all the different premises on why hemi lifted and cams fail. Nothing has been pinpointed to the actual cause. My life experience tells it’s a quality control issue at the parts mfg. the mfg that submits the lowest bid is awarded the contract. It’s not just autos , it’s home appliances, lumber, cloths, electronics, tools ect.

As I said, I get why you’re upset, but now it comes Down to how the dealer takes care of you.
 
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BenchTest

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As I said, I get why you’re upset, but now it comes Dow to how the dealer takes care of you.
I'm beyond my warranty, so it's all on me now. As I've mentioned in other posts, I had a fleet of Pentastar equipped vehicles, as did a friend of mine. A lot of them went back during their warranty periods, and some multiple times for the same failure. Almost all of them have had cam/lifter issues at one point (either inside or outside of warranty). It's been a learning experience for sure. And as a couple of others have eluded to: our oil change intervals were not to blame as we adhered to 5K changes pretty routinely. That's not to say there wasn't a rogue guy who ran his excessively long once or twice here and there. Overall 5K was adhered to. Some will blame the brand/type of oil but I don't buy into that at 5K OCIs and low mileage on the clock. I've seen the lifters and lash adjusters (and removed/replaced them myself at times) come out. They really look like poor metallurgy. I'm not educated enough in metal compounds, nor do I have the equipment to prove/disprove that, but that's how it appears to me. I've read about redesigns from MOPAR that were supposedly implemented in subsequent generations, but they seem to have similar failures. Maybe they'll get it figured out or retire the 3.6L.... who knows. Thanks for the replies.
 

DILLIGAF

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This is why i run Redline 5w30 in my 3.6L and do 5000km oil changes .

Another engine that the douche nozzles at dodge want you to run water in just like the HEMI :rolleyes: :think:

At least a lifter Job is easy on these if you actually do them right away when they start getting noisy.

You guys know I keep my stuff for 10+ years and beat the living sh!te out of them. So Ill have a Lifter job and oil cooler job thread here in a few years and just like the HEMI I wont actually wait to have a failure. Im doing the lifters oil cooler and Baxter performance upgrade at 100xxxkm .... :favorites37: i just hit 70xxxkm

Wife gave me the OK for an 8 speed swap on her jeep :cool: She loves my truck now with that trans.
 
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OP
OP
W

Wild one

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I'm beyond my warranty, so it's all on me now. As I've mentioned in other posts, I had a fleet of Pentastar equipped vehicles, as did a friend of mine. A lot of them went back during their warranty periods, and some multiple times for the same failure. Almost all of them have had cam/lifter issues at one point (either inside or outside of warranty). It's been a learning experience for sure. And as a couple of others have eluded to: our oil change intervals were not to blame as we adhered to 5K changes pretty routinely. That's not to say there wasn't a rogue guy who ran his excessively long once or twice here and there. Overall 5K was adhered to. Some will blame the brand/type of oil but I don't buy into that at 5K OCIs and low mileage on the clock. I've seen the lifters and lash adjusters (and removed/replaced them myself at times) come out. They really look like poor metallurgy. I'm not educated enough in metal compounds, nor do I have the equipment to prove/disprove that, but that's how it appears to me. I've read about redesigns from MOPAR that were supposedly implemented in subsequent generations, but they seem to have similar failures. Maybe they'll get it figured out or retire the 3.6L.... who knows. Thanks for the replies.
One question,if you had a fleet of 3.6's with issues at your disposal to observe,why in hell did you buy one .Something doesn't add up either you're not the sharpest crayon in the box,or you're fabricating a story to back up your ridiculous claims .Which is it?
 

BenchTest

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One question,if you had a fleet of 3.6's with issues at your disposal to observe,why in hell did you buy one .Something doesn't add up either you're not the sharpest crayon in the box,or you're fabricating a story to back up your ridiculous claims .Which is it?
<null>
 
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