Well this is one of the lower milege cam failures

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Wild one

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Ok. Cool, thanks for sharing. Move along. Not interested in exchanging with you any further.
Guess you should of kept your mouth shut when you took a dig at me a few posts back in post #40.Hell dude i was perfectly happy letting you go on your merry way,but no you just had to flap your lips,and take another dig at me.
What the hell did you think was gonna happen :cheers:

"Besides, we can't talk about the 3.6 on this post, or somebody will get upset. This is a HEMI post and only HEMI posts are allowed. :D"
 

EdGs

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Seeing alot of posts from those who have had lifter/cam failure, makes me wonder if the heatreating of the cams/lifter rollers was up to par.

But then again, once a roller starts getting hung up, you have drag and such which does not take long to wear itself and whatever it's in contact with, regardless of the heat treat quality.

It would be interesting to look at records and see if engines that have failures were from batches that were installed in the vehicles around the same time. Maybe the records would show clusters of vehicles affected, and potentially clusters of bad parts.

It is probably difficult to do this since failures are so scattered across different model years. But maybe there's a group of failures here and another group of failures there, etc. That may point to poor QC at the supplier level.

Most likely alot easier not to give a crap, push on, and just replace the engine, instead of trying to look for where/why the failure started. Until failures are such that they are forced to.
 

oledirteh

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Guess you should of kept your mouth shut when you took a dig at me a few posts back in post #40.Hell dude i was perfectly happy letting you go on your merry way,but no you just had to flap your lips,and take another dig at me.
What the hell did you think was gonna happen :cheers:

"Besides, we can't talk about the 3.6 on this post, or somebody will get upset. This is a HEMI post and only HEMI posts are allowed. :D"

ok, you are my kinda people. no ho mo
 

Scottly

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It would be interesting to look at records and see if engines that have failures were from batches that were installed in the vehicles around the same time.
I looked at those records and assembled a study, which determined that it affects all engines between 2003 and 2024. :favorites37:
 

Yardbird

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It is wild how a failure can happen on a "new" part, and others seem to last forever.

The human factor is always involved somehow. I wonder how many failures are related to things being built on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning. Or before a break.

It would be interesting if it could be determined if part failures could be traced to a batch, but that is virtually impossible to prove since parts are not serialized.
Don't worry. Things are going to get much better soon. I read this from a Stellantis article, and a new day of quality is on the horizon.

The automaker will strive to source 80% of its supply from low-cost countries by 2028, Knight said, an effort she said would significantly reduce overall expenses.
 

EdGs

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Don't worry. Things are going to get much better soon. I read this from a Stellantis article, and a new day of quality is on the horizon.

The automaker will strive to source 80% of its supply from low-cost countries by 2028, Knight said, an effort she said would significantly reduce overall expenses.
Too late, since they no longer have a v8 option. Not interested in any of their current offerings, especially at the prices they want.
 

Yardbird

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I'm not too concerned about having a V-8, as I haven't owned one since a light pole got knocked onto my Gran Marquis almost 6 years ago. I draw my line at turbos and GDI.

Although, my line has moved quite a few times throughout the years........
 

DA Smith

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Thanks for letting me know the "real world truth", I wasn't aware. I only keep up with the fake world truth.

All manufacturers have flaws. That's a given. There are plenty of Pentastar failures to commensurate my post.

Besides, we can't talk about the 3.6 on this post, or somebody will get upset. This is a HEMI post and only HEMI posts are allowed. :D
You are welcome, I'm always happy to let people know what is happening in the real world instead of getting their news from just a few people on a forum. Also you brought up the 3.6 in your post about needing huge and numerous warehouses to hold all of the junk 3.6 parts.
 

star_deceiver

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Some will blame the brand/type of oil but I don't buy into that at 5K OCIs and low mileage on the clock.
If you and your guy were using the cheap bulk conventional 5w20 that comes in barrels in your fleets, that a bean counter at a company would buy because cheap is good, vs. a really good name brand synthetic 5w30 at double the price, there’s one big problem. $1000 in oil changes saved means nothing after the first $3000 cam job. There is a massive world of difference between cheap and quality oil, filters too.

Secondly, what were the idle/drive times like on these trucks? Mine idles between 550-650rpm, which is way too low. It’s nice to have a real world rounded picture to determine how failures occur.
image.jpg
 
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BenchTest

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If you and your guy were using the cheap bulk conventional 5w20 that comes in barrels in your fleets, that a bean counter at a company would buy because cheap is good, vs. a really good name brand synthetic 5w30 at double the price, there’s one big problem. $1000 in oil changes saved means nothing after the first $3000 cam job. There is a massive world of difference between cheap and quality oil, filters too.

Secondly, what were the idle/drive times like on these trucks? Mine idles between 550-650rpm, which is way too low. It’s nice to have a real world rounded picture to determine how failures occur.
View attachment 551584
I don't have the data in front of me to expand on this with any level of integrity as I no longer work at the company (haven't for a couple of years now). Oil used met API/Mopar spec at the time of services, however, I cannot say specifics as the fleet was serviced across several states and various locations. I didn't personally do the services, so I can only go by what was reported. Also, idle/drive times varied widely based on who the vehicle was assigned to and what their role was. Some were road warriors and some were inner-city/urban with traffic/idle times.


As far as my friend's fleet vehicles, I don't have any data on what was ran in them.

Short of running straight 50 weight with sand in it, there's no reason that spec oil shouldn't be doing it's job. Whether that is high end premium oil or basic spec oil. If it meets the minimums, low mileage cam/lifter failure shouldn't be a thing. Yes, I agree, over the long-term, higher quality oils will provide longer service life. But failures inside of 150k (and sooner in quite a few examples) is poor quality or quality control. As an example of that, I've had numerous vehicles over the years that have ran well into the 250K+ range that were ran in extreme heat, idled just about all day (started at 730AM and ran until late day routinely), and done so on basic bulk oils (most of the time conventionals pushing out to 6K OCI's). We didn't experience rotating assembly failures in that mileage range. Sludge build up? Yes, we had that. Pop a valve cover or just look down into the fill port and you could see it. That's the byproduct of conventional oils living in those conditions. We knew that and accepted it as the vehicles would typically be rotated into retirement by then.
 

BenchTest

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You are welcome, I'm always happy to let people know what is happening in the real world instead of getting their news from just a few people on a forum. Also you brought up the 3.6 in your post about needing huge and numerous warehouses to hold all of the junk 3.6 parts.
Well, if you've paid attention to any of my posts, you'll know that my information isn't from "just a few people on a forum." As I've said several other times, there is a reason that every parts house and online retailer stocks/sells parts for the Pentastar. They need a lot of parts to keep them going. If the issues were not prevalent, the parts wouldn't be so widespread available. There wouldn't be thousands of pages populating when you do a simple search engine inquiry. It's a real group of issues experienced by a lot of people. I don't know the percentages of failures, nor do I care, as those number don't impact my day to day.
 
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Wild one

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I don't have the data in front of me to expand on this with any level of integrity as I no longer work at the company (haven't for a couple of years now). Oil used met API/Mopar spec at the time of services, however, I cannot say specifics as the fleet was serviced across several states and various locations. I didn't personally do the services, so I can only go by what was reported. Also, idle/drive times varied widely based on who the vehicle was assigned to and what their role was. Some were road warriors and some were inner-city/urban with traffic/idle times.


As far as my friend's fleet vehicles, I don't have any data on what was ran in them.

Short of running straight 50 weight with sand in it, there's no reason that spec oil shouldn't be doing it's job. Whether that is high end premium oil or basic spec oil. If it meets the minimums, low mileage cam/lifter failure shouldn't be a thing. Yes, I agree, over the long-term, higher quality oils will provide longer service life. But failures inside of 150k (and sooner in quite a few examples) is poor quality or quality control. As an example of that, I've had numerous vehicles over the years that have ran well into the 250K+ range that were ran in extreme heat, idled just about all day (started at 730AM and ran until late day routinely), and done so on basic bulk oils (most of the time conventionals pushing out to 6K OCI's). We didn't experience rotating assembly failures in that mileage range. Sludge build up? Yes, we had that. Pop a valve cover or just look down into the fill port and you could see it. That's the byproduct of conventional oils living in those conditions. We knew that and accepted it as the vehicles would typically be rotated into retirement by then.
Hard to get data on a fictionalized story dude. Personally i think you're embellishing a couple failures into massive failures,as no outfit is going to keep running trucks that are failing on a daily basis,the way you're making the story out to be.
If there were that many 3.6 failures we'd see a pile of guys on here and facebook yelling about their 3.6's,and that's not happening here or on facebook.
 
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Yardbird

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A Record! Pentastar Engine Production Tops 10 Million​

February 27th, 2019 by Ryleigh Salmon

Making history, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has officially produced over 10 million of its award-winning Pentastar engines! The Pentastar engine family was originally introduced in 2010 as a 3.6-liter V6, and now consists of six different variations that power more than half of all Fiat Chrysler Automobiles including Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep vehicles. Since its inception over nine years ago, the Pentastar family has found itself on the annual Wards 10 Best Engines list six different times! And in Canada, where the country remains subarctic for more of the year, the mighty Pentastar engine has been the best-selling engine for the last six consecutive years.........

How many do you think have been made by now? That's a lot of engines.
 

BenchTest

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A Record! Pentastar Engine Production Tops 10 Million​

February 27th, 2019 by Ryleigh Salmon

Making history, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has officially produced over 10 million of its award-winning Pentastar engines! The Pentastar engine family was originally introduced in 2010 as a 3.6-liter V6, and now consists of six different variations that power more than half of all Fiat Chrysler Automobiles including Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep vehicles. Since its inception over nine years ago, the Pentastar family has found itself on the annual Wards 10 Best Engines list six different times! And in Canada, where the country remains subarctic for more of the year, the mighty Pentastar engine has been the best-selling engine for the last six consecutive years.........

How many do you think have been made by now? That's a lot of engines.
Somebody posted 14 million as the current #, I believe.
 

oledirteh

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are the PenStar's an Italian based motor? I'm pretty sure if its anything like a EcoDiesel the oil should have a additive with it to be in spec.
 

Sherman Bird

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Tell me about it. I've had to replace the fuel pumps in my push mower and Kubota tractor because I don't use them enough. I started putting in fuel stabilizer in there. But now, I need to change the tires on the tractor because they dry rotted in the barn. It's a used tractor sure, but shheeeeeeeesh. I spend more money fixing it than I do using it.
Ozone is the bad actor regarding tire rot. I have climate controlled my shop, including dehumidification. This has really helped in keeping my long term projects better for longer, partially by reducing ozone in the air. Degradation, however, is inevitable!
 

PA Ram

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Thats why I didnt wait and did my cam swap before having issues. Bought parts slowly over a year period.
Good idea, may have to start doing this. I don't have any issues on my 2017 Ram 1500 5.7,but also don't want to wait till they fail. I have an unlocked PCM so I have mds disabled. Will probably go with a non-mds cam swap. My 2005 5.7 Ram had the lifters go and the infamous manifold warp and broken bolts. I've already swapped to BD manifolds on my 2017 due to broken bolts. Both manifolds were badly warped.
 

nlambert182

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I get a kick out of folks howling about how bad one brand is and how they're going back to another. I've owned them all, and all of them have had their fair share of flaws.

Which company makes the most bulletproof V8? None of them.

FCA's Hemi's could eat cams and lifters.
GM's LS engines could eat cams and lifters.
Ford's engines could have problems with oil consumption and timing chain tensioner issues.
Toyota's engines could have head gasket failures because of coolant issues.
Nissan's engines could have timing chain/sludging issues.

Which company makes the most bulletproof V6? None of them.

FCA's Pentastar could have a cylinder head failure or rocker arm failure.
GM's V6 could have timing chain, oil consumption, and overheating issues.
Ford's Ecoboost could have failing intake valves that crack and fall into the combustion chamber.
Toyota's V6 engines could fail from debris in the engine.
Nissan's V6 engines could fail from cracked timing chain guides and have oil consumption problems.


Which company makes the most bulletproof diesel? None of them.

We all know the stories on the Powerstroke. I know 6.0 & 6.4 problems better than most. The 6.7 is decent, but could still fail from an injector pump failure or a rod bearing failure.

Duramax's could fail from fuel starvation, water pump failures, and overheats.

As much as I swear by a Cummins, they have issues too. Could either be an injector pump failure, flex plate failure, emissions, etc...

I'm not even getting into transmissions, etc. on any of these vehicles.

Every manufacturer is racing each other to the bottom. I'd rather have a truck where the problems are known and where known fixes are out there so that IF they happen, I know how to solve them.
 

Sherman Bird

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I get a kick out of folks howling about how bad one brand is and how they're going back to another. I've owned them all, and all of them have had their fair share of flaws.

Which company makes the most bulletproof V8? None of them.

FCA's Hemi's could eat cams and lifters.
GM's LS engines could eat cams and lifters.
Ford's engines could have problems with oil consumption and timing chain tensioner issues.
Toyota's engines could have head gasket failures because of coolant issues.
Nissan's engines could have timing chain/sludging issues.

Which company makes the most bulletproof V6? None of them.

FCA's Pentastar could have a cylinder head failure or rocker arm failure.
GM's V6 could have timing chain, oil consumption, and overheating issues.
Ford's Ecoboost could have failing intake valves that crack and fall into the combustion chamber.
Toyota's V6 engines could fail from debris in the engine.
Nissan's V6 engines could fail from cracked timing chain guides and have oil consumption problems.


Which company makes the most bulletproof diesel? None of them.

We all know the stories on the Powerstroke. I know 6.0 & 6.4 problems better than most. The 6.7 is decent, but could still fail from an injector pump failure or a rod bearing failure.

Duramax's could fail from fuel starvation, water pump failures, and overheats.

As much as I swear by a Cummins, they have issues too. Could either be an injector pump failure, flex plate failure, emissions, etc...

I'm not even getting into transmissions, etc. on any of these vehicles.

Every manufacturer is racing each other to the bottom. I'd rather have a truck where the problems are known and where known fixes are out there so that IF they happen, I know how to solve them.
Ah! Yes! The quest for the repair-free truck/car continues! All the manufacturer must do is use buzzwords like "dependable", "World Class", and an assorted line of crap used since the 1920's!

Truth be told, a vast quantity of these failures and others stem from the combination of the EPA, Government CAFE requirements and the penchant for horsepower/speed pure and simple are never satiated.

When I first got into the trade of fixing automobiles, the manufacturers' warranty was 12 months, 12,000 miles.
Carbon was just as big an issue then, as it is now. However, sans a computer controlled engine management system, a fellow could drive his rough running, smoky car for a long time before having to do any major repairs.

I performed a "top job" cylinder head, valve grind on MANY cars/ Trucks back then with maybe 40,000 miles on it. Ditto for rebuilding automatic transmissions at such an early time. It was the norm.

I also remember how much more filthy our air was, and how a big Olds 98 got 8-9 MPG.

The bodies rusted to nothing at light speed back then... and so many other issues.

Nowadays, folks routinely get 20+ MPG from trucks, 38 MPG from cars. The air is less stinky, the cars and trucks routinely go 200,000 plus miles dependably, and with comfort and convenience and safety as never seen.

Yet, folks still love to grouse! I wonder if those folks who drive horse drawn buggies in Pennsylvania complain about their rigs?! ;)
 

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