What can Ram do to the 3500 to really get it right?

[thebuilderman]

So I just got off the phone with Stellantis. They own Chrysler. So of course no real info but we may be able to build a 2022 on line as soon as 2 weeks to a month from now. 5/26/21.
From everything I can read it looks like the new tranny will be the Allison but as of now it’s the best kept secret in America!
I can tell with the online build for 2021 you can’t option a Laramie like you could just a month and a half ago. I thought it was the chip shortage and it still could be but the person I spoke with said it was because you can’t order a 2021 anymore. Not sure if I’m buying that but maybe if you order now a 2021 you’re limited to what’s available now.
Anyway I’ll be checking in a month. One can only hope that Chrysler will grow a brain. Maybe figure out that at least the USA wants more than a 6 speed tranny.

 

[TimboRam77]

According to the salesman who posted the "I'm waiting on the 2021 hd then changed to waiting on the 22''

Nothing will change for 22 has been confirmed. Well only a digital rearview and maybe wiring for a trailer rear view. My first choice when purchasing my current truck was a 3500 srw but due to the numerous ram diesel shortcomings I went 5.7. This salesman now is waiting on the 23 for numerous things to be fixed.

 

[thebuilderman]

According to the salesman who posted the "I'm waiting on the 2021 hd then changed to waiting on the 22''

Nothing will change for 22 has been confirmed. Well only a digital rearview and maybe wiring for a trailer rear view. My first choice when purchasing my current truck was a 3500 srw but due to the numerous ram diesel shortcomings I went 5.7. This salesman now is waiting on the 23 for numerous things to be fixed.

What shortcomings are you hearing about the Cummins? I know all 3 manufacturers have the emissions crap issues but have been having them since mid 2007 and I’m sure they’re working out those issues. But most places you can’t legally delete that crap.
From everything I can tell and all the extensive reading I’ve done the major change to the heavy duty diesel will be a transmission and that is what I’m waiting for. That should happen by the end of ‘21. I’m in construction and I would probably destroy a 1/2 ton truck plus I want to get a toy hauler trailer and maybe one day a fifth wheel so a 1 ton HD is in my future and it’ll have to be a Cummins cuz, for me, once you go diesel you can’t go back to gas. I love my current Cummins.
As someone else posted previously, albeit rudely, salespersons are often misinformed. That being said I do and continue to ask them but I personally never take what they say as an absolute.
I appreciate your post, thanks, maybe I will have to lease the next truck but I don’t think I have the luxury to wait for the ‘23.
Regarding your truck you just purchased, congratulations! Did you mean 6.4 for the HD trucks? I didn’t know they still have the 5.7 as a gas option for the HD’s, maybe for the 1500’s they do.

 

[corneileous]

As someone else posted previously, albeit rudely, salespersons are often misinformed. That being said I do and continue to ask them but I personally never take what they say as an absolute.

You got that right. Lol. I had a salesman before I bought my truck who didn’t know the difference between the built in trailer brake controller from the air ride controls. Lol.


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[thebuilderman]

You got that right. Lol. I had a salesman before I bought my truck who didn’t know the difference between the built in trailer brake controller from the air ride controls. Lol.


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Wow! That salesman must have been sellin candy bars the week prior.

 

[TimboRam77]

What shortcomings are you hearing about the Cummins? I know all 3 manufacturers have the emissions crap issues but have been having them since mid 2007 and I’m sure they’re working out those issues. But most places you can’t legally delete that crap.
From everything I can tell and all the extensive reading I’ve done the major change to the heavy duty diesel will be a transmission and that is what I’m waiting for. That should happen by the end of ‘21. I’m in construction and I would probably destroy a 1/2 ton truck plus I want to get a toy hauler trailer and maybe one day a fifth wheel so a 1 ton HD is in my future and it’ll have to be a Cummins cuz, for me, once you go diesel you can’t go back to gas. I love my current Cummins.
As someone else posted previously, albeit rudely, salespersons are often misinformed. That being said I do and continue to ask them but I personally never take what they say as an absolute.
I appreciate your post, thanks, maybe I will have to lease the next truck but I don’t think I have the luxury to wait for the ‘23.
Regarding your truck you just purchased, congratulations! Did you mean 6.4 for the HD trucks? I didn’t know they still have the 5.7 as a gas option for the HD’s, maybe for the 1500’s they do.

My slow response is because I've been working hard and that is good. I also am a Cummins fan and really tried hard to go diesel again but feared many issues.
1. as you have pointed out is emissions. Personally preferring but not needing a diesel I compromised by getting a 5.7 limited which has no emissions issue I'm aware of.
2. Transmission. My previous diesel was a transmission disaster and the new hd Rams simply did not drive like a truck that was in harmony. The asian may work for heavy loads but for my use was too clunky. 68rfe no way.
3. hp pump. This one may be resolved but at the time I did my research the cp4 was still in use and is a fail. The cp3 in my 3rd gen was great. I ran experimental fuels and the cp3 didn't care.
4. interior. not a full 5th gen, close but a compromise especially the rear
5. cab. It's a 4th gen cab and I can't get the seat low enough.
Also I believe the salesman because he states and shows the obvious and it's not a positive review.
I really would rather have a 3500 cummins and if they fix these shortcomings I'd buy. 4th truck in 4 years.

What shortcomings are you hearing about the Cummins? I know all 3 manufacturers have the emissions crap issues but have been having them since mid 2007 and I’m sure they’re working out those issues. But most places you can’t legally delete that crap.
From everything I can tell and all the extensive reading I’ve done the major change to the heavy duty diesel will be a transmission and that is what I’m waiting for. That should happen by the end of ‘21. I’m in construction and I would probably destroy a 1/2 ton truck plus I want to get a toy hauler trailer and maybe one day a fifth wheel so a 1 ton HD is in my future and it’ll have to be a Cummins cuz, for me, once you go diesel you can’t go back to gas. I love my current Cummins.
As someone else posted previously, albeit rudely, salespersons are often misinformed. That being said I do and continue to ask them but I personally never take what they say as an absolute.
I appreciate your post, thanks, maybe I will have to lease the next truck but I don’t think I have the luxury to wait for the ‘23.
Regarding your truck you just purchased, congratulations! Did you mean 6.4 for the HD trucks? I didn’t know they still have the 5.7 as a gas option for the HD’s, maybe for the 1500’s they do.

 

[thebuilderman]

My slow response is because I've been working hard and that is good. I also am a Cummins fan and really tried hard to go diesel again but feared many issues.
1. as you have pointed out is emissions. Personally preferring but not needing a diesel I compromised by getting a 5.7 limited which has no emissions issue I'm aware of.
2. Transmission. My previous diesel was a transmission disaster and the new hd Rams simply did not drive like a truck that was in harmony. The asian may work for heavy loads but for my use was too clunky. 68rfe no way.
3. hp pump. This one may be resolved but at the time I did my research the cp4 was still in use and is a fail. The cp3 in my 3rd gen was great. I ran experimental fuels and the cp3 didn't care.
4. interior. not a full 5th gen, close but a compromise especially the rear
5. cab. It's a 4th gen cab and I can't get the seat low enough.
Also I believe the salesman because he states and shows the obvious and it's not a positive review.
I really would rather have a 3500 cummins and if they fix these shortcomings I'd buy. 4th truck in 4 years.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah it looks like the 5th gen will be 2023. From what I read is they know about the cp4 fail and went back to the cp3. Im really hoping the Allison transmission happens sometime this year. It’s supposed to but we’ll see. If not I’ll be waiting for the ‘23!

 

[TimboRam77]

My slow response is because I've been working hard and that is good. I also am a Cummins fan and really tried hard to go diesel again but feared many issues.
1. as you have pointed out is emissions. Personally preferring but not needing a diesel I compromised by getting a 5.7 limited which has no emissions issue I'm aware of.
2. Transmission. My previous diesel was a transmission disaster and the new hd Rams simply did not drive like a truck that was in harmony. The asian may work for heavy loads but for my use was too clunky. 68rfe no way.
3. hp pump. This one may be resolved but at the time I did my research the cp4 was still in use and is a fail. The cp3 in my 3rd gen was great. I ran experimental fuels and the cp3 didn't care.
4. interior. not a full 5th gen, close but a compromise especially the rear
5. cab. It's a 4th gen cab and I can't get the seat low enough.
Also I believe the salesman because he states and shows the obvious and it's not a positive review.
I really would rather have a 3500 cummins and if they fix these shortcomings I'd buy. 4th truck in 4 years.

2nd part due to computer issues.

If you drive a f250 diesel back to back with a Ram hd asian I believe you'll get what I'm saying about harmony. But
f250 10 speed is a fail.
my pre-shortage f250 attempt to order or purchase was an exercise in dealer arrogance. I got a deal on my current 1500 and a 10 year mopar warranty. Didn't like ford anyway but tried.
hope this helps. I put much time in research reference my statements.
HATE I had to part with my 5th gen. It was the best taken care of 3rd gen ever and had been highly customized. Got taken out by a semi and he was at fault and charged. What I have now is good and fits me better but it is not a cummins

 

[thebuilderman]

2nd part due to computer issues.

If you drive a f250 diesel back to back with a Ram hd asian I believe you'll get what I'm saying about harmony. But
f250 10 speed is a fail.
my pre-shortage f250 attempt to order or purchase was an exercise in dealer arrogance. I got a deal on my current 1500 and a 10 year mopar warranty. Didn't like ford anyway but tried.
hope this helps. I put much time in research reference my statements.
HATE I had to part with my 5th gen. It was the best taken care of 3rd gen ever and had been highly customized. Got taken out by a semi and he was at fault and charged. What I have now is good and fits me better but it is not a cummins

I’m not a big Ford fan. But they are a smart company when it comes to making money. I think Ram is a better product but by no means a great product.
If I could get away with a 1500 I would. 10 year Mopar warranty!!!! Wow!! Never heard of that.
With that in mind I feel better about getting a truck the first year of the refresh. But I tell you what, I will go over the warranty and fine print nine ways to Sunday! Seems like the dealers/manufacturers try hard to get out of warranty.
I’m sure the manufacturers were caught flat footed and now all auto’s seem to be selling for top top dollar. I was at a Ram dealer a couple days ago and he showed me all the special orders. 15. 14 of them were cancelled by the manufacturer. It’s definitely not a good time to buy anything so wait I will.

 

[Scottly]

Couple things....My '21 Ram 3500 has the CP3 pump on the Cummins. And beware the Allison hype. My 2020 Chevy 2500 had the 10sp "Allison", which was the 10sp tranny that was a joint effort between Ford/GM, that GM paid a license fee to Allison to label as such. If you look at the case, it's the same 10sp under the F250. Not that I care if it works OK (and it did for the short time I had it), but if Allison is willing to sell it's name to GM for that I'd have a hard time trusting whatever is being put under the Ram just because of the PAST reputation of Allison Labs. Make sure it's the real deal, if you're banking on that. Otherwise, you might be in the same boat as those people that think their Eco-Diesel is somehow closer to a Cummins than the Maserati it came out of.

 

[thebuilderman]

Couple things....My '21 Ram 3500 has the CP3 pump on the Cummins. And beware the Allison hype. My 2020 Chevy 2500 had the 10sp "Allison", which was the 10sp tranny that was a joint effort between Ford/GM, that GM paid a license fee to Allison to label as such. If you look at the case, it's the same 10sp under the F250. Not that I care if it works OK (and it did for the short time I had it), but if Allison is willing to sell it's name to GM for that I'd have a hard time trusting whatever is being put under the Ram just because of the PAST reputation of Allison Labs. Make sure it's the real deal, if you're banking on that. Otherwise, you might be in the same boat as those people that think their Eco-Diesel is somehow closer to a Cummins than the Maserati it came out of.

Eco-diesel closer to a Cummins. Got a laugh from that.
Regarding the Allison, I hear you. But I’m sure they made money letting GM use the name.
From everything I read and hear is that Allison designed and built a tranny for the Cummins. ZF also has a tranny for the Cummins that’s used in a lot of mid size trucks. I can’t remember what it’s called.
I also spoke with an engineer who worked with Allison on their tranny for the Cummins. I think it’ll be the real deal. I’m good with either the ZF or the Allison. Of course I’d prefer the Allison. I also think the Aisin is a great tranny but when not under load it has a lot to be desired.
I think Stellantis probably knows the 10speed GM and Ford is using is a piece of s***. I bet Allison knows as well. I highly doubt Allison will let that happen again.

 

[Scottly]

I also think the Aisin is a great tranny but when not under load it has a lot to be desired.
.

Ehhh...Mine is a bit clunky. I guess I learned to ignore that. it seems to work well with the traction control turned off and the tow/haul mode turned on....When I remember to do all that.

 

[TimboRam77]

I’m not a big Ford fan. But they are a smart company when it comes to making money. I think Ram is a better product but by no means a great product.
If I could get away with a 1500 I would. 10 year Mopar warranty!!!! Wow!! Never heard of that.
With that in mind I feel better about getting a truck the first year of the refresh. But I tell you what, I will go over the warranty and fine print nine ways to Sunday! Seems like the dealers/manufacturers try hard to get out of warranty.
I’m sure the manufacturers were caught flat footed and now all auto’s seem to be selling for top top dollar. I was at a Ram dealer a couple days ago and he showed me all the special orders. 15. 14 of them were cancelled by the manufacturer. It’s definitely not a good time to buy anything so wait I will.

I had a lifetime mopar on my 19 limited 1500. I purchased the 19 in mid 2018. The truck was lemoned, however Ram treated me great. I was warned about 1st year for a new generation. 21 limited and no more lifetime is available so my deal included the 10 year mopar. Here is the key thing for extended warranty. Get an exclusionary not an inclusive. An exclusionary states exactly what is not covered. An inclusive, well good luck with those unless you are very savvy...
This reply relates to the op in that the inability to get any worthwhile extended warranty especially emissions on a cummins bent me back to a non-diesel. I just could not make a diesel work and imo neither can Ram or they would bet more in warranty insurance. The ecodiesel if mated with a gde would be a perfect setup but the epa has too much power and that path will unfortunately be eradicated. gde fixes everything the epa has mandated to kill ice and protect and foster ev. It's hard to accept but ev is the future and ice is going the way of the dinasour. In fact ice seems to already be halted with the chip shortage, real or fabricated, it's already happening. Burnem if you gottem.

 

[MoparProud]

Couple things....My '21 Ram 3500 has the CP3 pump on the Cummins. And beware the Allison hype. My 2020 Chevy 2500 had the 10sp "Allison", which was the 10sp tranny that was a joint effort between Ford/GM, that GM paid a license fee to Allison to label as such. If you look at the case, it's the same 10sp under the F250. Not that I care if it works OK (and it did for the short time I had it), but if Allison is willing to sell it's name to GM for that I'd have a hard time trusting whatever is being put under the Ram just because of the PAST reputation of Allison Labs. Make sure it's the real deal, if you're banking on that. Otherwise, you might be in the same boat as those people that think their Eco-Diesel is somehow closer to a Cummins than the Maserati it came out of.

There is no Allison hype. Like you stated, the 10 speed Allison is a GM-built, GM-designed unit with joint development with Ford. We know this.

The relevance regarding an Allison-built 9 speed simply isn’t there. I’d let darn near anyone use my name if they paid me millions in licensing fees. GM ran an Allison-built Allison since 2001 and wanted to maintain the Duramax/Allison branding. Fine.

If the 5th gen comes out with the 9 speed Allison, I’ll be ordering a 3500 Max Tow

 

[John Jensen]

I like my 2020 HO and Aisin. I drive it empty and towing and see no need for more gears, the Aisin performs as advertised. 1:1 is still 4th gear in all the 8 or 10 speeds. The need for more gears is marketing hype to keep up with Ford and Chevy. Sure, they will be smoother, I guess "better" if you want your truck to shift like a car.

I believe the Aisin is still the strongest tranny in the pickup world. It's the only one medium duty rated.

 

[caulk04]

Put the ZF 8HP75-LCV or ZF-8HP90-LCV behind the SO and HO Cummins and call it a day. Aisin is meh at best and ZF has their proverbial **** in a pile when it comes too transmissions.

Lol, not even close. 900nM rating is ~660 lb/ft. No way they can just uprate the same basic trans architecture that's behind the 3.6 to a Cummins. They tried that with the first gen Cummins and we're still living by the 'dodge trans issues' fallout from that. Why you think the Ford trans is called the 10R140? 1400nM ~1000lb/ft.

1:1 is still 4th gear in all the 8 or 10 speeds.

No, it's not. 6th in the 8HP45/70/75/90 is 1:1.

 

[MoparProud]

I like my 2020 HO and Aisin. I drive it empty and towing and see no need for more gears, the Aisin performs as advertised. 1:1 is still 4th gear in all the 8 or 10 speeds. The need for more gears is marketing hype to keep up with Ford and Chevy. Sure, they will be smoother, I guess "better" if you want your truck to shift like a car.

I believe the Aisin is still the strongest tranny in the pickup world. It's the only one medium duty rated.

It is not marketing hype. It’s real. Period. The only reason you “see no need” for more gears is because you haven’t driven one with more.

It’s been a proven fact in semis for decades. It’s been proven fact in the Charger/300/Challenger since they went 8 speed across the board. It’s been proven in the 1500 since it went 8 speed. It’s also been proven in the ‘19 and newer 6.4 Hemi HD trucks.

It’s not conjecture it’s stone cold fact. You’ll wonder what you were thinking when you drive the new truck with more gears.

 

[John Jensen]

It is not marketing hype. It’s real. Period. The only reason you “see no need” for more gears is because you haven’t driven one with more.

It’s been a proven fact in semis for decades. It’s been proven fact in the Charger/300/Challenger since they went 8 speed across the board. It’s been proven in the 1500 since it went 8 speed. It’s also been proven in the ‘19 and newer 6.4 Hemi HD trucks.

It’s not conjecture it’s stone cold fact. You’ll wonder what you were thinking when you drive the new truck with more gears.

Bad statement, you have no knowledge about what I have or haven't driven.

You are correct that more gears produces a smoother process. And under the right conditions, maybe better mpg. I'm only saying, they aren't necessary. The six gear Aisin is still the strongest tranny available in the pickup world.

Not sure what all the "proven facts" are in your response. Care to share a few? My mind is open to any proven facts that support more gears.

 

[John Jensen]

No, it's not. 6th in the 8HP45/70/75/90 is 1:1.

Thanks
I appreciate the correction. Learn something new every day.

 

[MoparProud]

Bad statement, you have no knowledge about what I have or haven't driven.

You are correct that more gears produces a smoother process. And under the right conditions, maybe better mpg. I'm only saying, they aren't necessary. The six gear Aisin is still the strongest tranny available in the pickup world.

Not sure what all the "proven facts" are in your response. Care to share a few? My mind is open to any proven facts that support more gears.

Actually, I GUARANTEE you haven’t driven either the ZF or any Allison test mules. So no, it’s not a bad statement. Come on guy, you make this too easy.

And yes, more gears IS necessary. More gears keeps the engine closer to optimal operating range and torque, which equates to better fuel economy and fewer emissions released as the engine is consuming the optimal fuel as much as possible. An extremely basic understanding of how an engine works leads to no other conclusion. They don’t blow millions on more gears for fun and hype guy. Again, come on. This is kindergarten stuff here.

Facts is facts jack. Because you don’t like them doesn’t make them any less accurate. Not trying to be rude either