What's better? 6.4L or the Cummins Diesel

[Toddz]

@sandawilliams, I agree with you. The 7.3 is impressive, but is still too young to know what bugs need to be worked out. Whereas the 6.4 has been around for a bit and has most of the bugs worked out.
I thought the Ram interior was the nicest of the big three, rides great for a hd. I also like the fact that it is a little shorter in length than the Ford when I get into the tight parking lots.
I think another factor when deciding gas or diesel is what vehicle are you coming from. I have always towed with a gas vehicle so to me this is by far the best tow vehicle I have owned. It doesn't bother me sitting at 4,000 rpms going up a steep hill. If I came from a diesel background, it might bother me having to rev. Almost like the two stroke vs four stroke argument for dirt bikers.

 

[Toddz]

One thing that comes up quite frequently especially when talking about the six speed trans matted to the 6.4 is the TFL Ike Gauntlet. What isn't considered is the Ram never drops below 4000 rpms in first so it had the power to tow the weight in that gear.
The other two held second a little longer.

When you look at the Chevy with the 6.0, yes it did the hill a minute faster with 13 percent less torque, but the trans gearing of the Chevy is 25 percent lower than Ram. The Ford is lower too because of the 4.30 gearing factor. The Ram 4.10 is equivalent to a Ford and Chevy 3.73 gearing wise.

I have a 4.10 now and I think the 66RFE should have also came with a 4.56. Now with the new 8 speed, that gearing difference isn't an issue and the 6.4 beat the new Chevy 6.6 up the hill.

The 4.10 is perfect for me, but when going above 11,000 pounds with the 66rfe, 4.56 + gears or a diesel is a better bet.

 

[jejb]

I also like the fact that it is a little shorter in length than the Ford when I get into the tight parking lots.

I hear that! I went from a quadrasteer that I'd bought new to a Mega cab. The Ram is far from an every day driver for us, but I hate parking lots when we do have it in town. My QS would turn inside an Accord.

I think another factor when deciding gas or diesel is what vehicle are you coming from. I have always towed with a gas vehicle so to me this is by far the best tow vehicle I have owned. It doesn't bother me sitting at 4,000 rpms going up a steep hill. If I came from a diesel background, it might bother me having to rev. Almost like the two stroke vs four stroke argument for dirt bikers.

Interesting analogy. I ride 2 stroke dirt bikes, and do get them revved up pretty hard at times. My 4 stroke dirt bikes were driven similarly, though. Of course, pistons only last 150-200 hours in those, because of the high revving.

But it's been my experience over 40+ years of driving and wrenching that any motor revving out hard a lot is not going to last. Engines are better these days, but still. Like all the bass boat guys I know. "Oh, these motors are made to be driven at full throttle all the time!". Yeah, I guess. But they blow up all the time on these guys. They just shrug it off as the price you pay. The 225 on the back of my Skeeter rarely sees more than 3500rpm (6K red line). It's cool to go blowing down the lake at 70+ with a big rooster tail, but I value longevity over speed on the water.

 

[Toddz]

I hear that! I went from a quadrasteer that I'd bought new to a Mega cab. The Ram is far from an every day driver for us, but I hate parking lots when we do have it in town. My QS would turn inside an

But it's been my experience over 40+ years of driving and wrenching that any motor revving out hard a lot is not going to last. Engines are better these days, but still. Like all the bass boat guys I know. "Oh, these motors are made to be driven at full throttle all the time!". Yeah, I guess. But they blow up all the time on these guys. They just shrug it off as the price you pay. The 225 on the back of my Skeeter rarely sees more than 3500rpm (6K red line). It's cool to go blowing down the lake at 70+ with a big rooster tail, but I value longevity over speed on the water.

I agree, that is why I try and drive the sweet spot of the 6.4 at 3500 to 4000 like your Skeeter when I tow.. My boat I drove the same way as you. This is why I feel the Ram programming locking the rpms at 4000 under heavy load on the ike gauntlet in 1st is not a bad thing. Even if I could, I would not have the engine sit at 5500 rpms to get up a hill a little faster.

 

[Toddz]

In the 2 stroke 4 stroke conversation I feel it is relevant because the older diesels were like the old 4 strokes (like my first 1969 Honda trail 50), they ran forever and you couldn't kill them.

Now the modern 4 strokes are like the modern diesels, they have added so much performance and tech that while they may last longer before repairs than a two stroke (ie gas engine), the repairs cost a fortune when they need a rebuild or repairs, which they need much more often than in the past.

 

[Bcryan]

1960 trail... damm I thought my 79 110 three wheeler was old.. can’t kill those old 4 stroke motors. Killed a lot of two strokes in my sleds and bikes over the years

 

[ErnieD]

@sandawilliams, I agree with you. The 7.3 is impressive, but is still too young to know what bugs need to be worked out. Whereas the 6.4 has been around for a bit and has most of the bugs worked out.
I thought the Ram interior was the nicest of the big three, rides great for a hd. I also like the fact that it is a little shorter in length than the Ford when I get into the tight parking lots.
I think another factor when deciding gas or diesel is what vehicle are you coming from. I have always towed with a gas vehicle so to me this is by far the best tow vehicle I have owned. It doesn't bother me sitting at 4,000 rpms going up a steep hill. If I came from a diesel background, it might bother me having to rev. Almost like the two stroke vs four stroke argument for dirt bikers.

The 6.4 reving high in a hard pull doesn’t scare me either. It’s where the Hemi makes max HP and Torque and it’s fine to use it there if needed. It’s the high rev tho that makes the Hemi super thirsty! To be transparent though, pulling 7400 trailer up La Veta pass I averaged 8.5-9.5 MPG on my trip from Denver to Taos. So it’s something to consider. My Cummins didn’t struggle one bit, and I could have gone up the pass going 75 mph but it wasn’t exactly a game changer in MPG on a hard uphill pull.

As for waiting on “bugs” for a new 7.3L, that’s a flawed logic from most of us buyers. I’m in fleet maintenance and can say that there’s no proof that bugs happen to early production engines with any consistency. The Godzilla is an old school big block push rod engine. If there one thing that Ford knows it’s big block gassers. Just for the record, I grew up a major Chevy 350 small block fan so it’s not like I’m a Ford guy either lol.

 

[Big Cheddar]

Its Black

 

[Big Cheddar]

I like the TFL guys but they only tell half the story....

This is the age old issue of trying to prove superiority of one thing over another while neglecting use-case and intended purpose. Comparing diesel to gas across the board is like comparing a roofing nailer to a pin nailer. Both are nailers but have entirely different use-cases.

I will agree hands down that the Cummins is far superior engine in a vacuum. Compare it to its peers (Duramax, Powerstroke, International, Cummins Commercial, etc) and the comparison is on a level playing field. The light duty Cummins in the Ram quickly gets left in the dust by the big boys. With that said, the Cummins is not the superior engine across the board when you factor in use-case. Off-road, payload, maintenance, fuel availability and consistency and EPA regulations favor gas. Towing and fuel mileage towing favor diesel. Resale and longevity are a push.

From personal experience, Diesel excels at towing but its Achilles heel is the payload of the vehicle it’s installed in such as the Ram 2500 with its paltry 2000# payload WITHOUT DRIVER, PASSENGERS, CARGO OR TRAILER TONGUE / PIN WEIGHT ADDED. Most 5th wheel trailers have a pin weight in the 1500-3000# range which blows your payload out of the water. 3500-5500’s have better payload but if you get north of 26000# you’d better have a CDL or your operating illegally.

Why do the diesel guys keep trying to convince everyone theirs is bigger, err better, than everyone else’s? Love the one you’re with...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed.
Below is my thoughts, and why I made the right choice for me.

I debated a long time between diesel, and gas. I wanted to justify a Diesel. I really wanted one. I plan on this being my last Truck purchase. That said. I decided on the Power Wagon for a lot of personal reasons:
1. I wanted a Heavy Duty Truck that would go anywhere in the Mountains, I wanted to go and not break something trying to get there.
2.The Hemi engine is over 500 #'s lighter than the Cummins. That's a big difference in Weight when going through Deep Mud, and Snow in deep rutted roads. Plus the extra weight on components that both trucks share. Hubs, Bushings, Tie Rods, Steering Box etc.
3.I don't tow often, or heavy.
4. It has a 12,000# Winch. I didn't have to add. Plus. Where it's Bolted. It doesn't add any length to an already long Truck. Can Make a difference in the Mountains
5. The Springs are softer. Giving me better Suspension travel, better Off road performance, all 4 wheels will stay planted much longer in deep ruts than a Stiff sprung Diesel Towing Rigs.Much better ride on, or off road.
6. I have Front & Rear Axle lockers. I didn't have to add them.
7. A Disconnecting Sway Bar. Allows even more Suspension Travel. Plus I don't have to Crawl around in the Mud to Unbolt it/ bolt it back.
With all of the above. It still won't go a lot more places an HD Diesel will go .But it will go some places the HD Diesels can't . No matter where it goes. It will take me there more comfortably. Again. Apples , and Oranges. But if I was planning on towing Regular, and Heavy. I would go Diesel, and not even look at a Gasser. I guess that's why we're all happy with our Choice. None of them are perfect. But for those of us that gave it a lot of thought. Our choice was the best for us. As long as our priorities, or circumstances don't change. You Diesel Guys won't go Gas. And us Gas guys won't go Diesel.

 

[Big Cheddar]

I don't think anyone said it was. This thread is about towing, not other use cases.

Resale is not even close to being a push. You saying that just hurts your credibility.

He asked which is best? The 6.7 CTD, or the 6.4 Hemi. The OP asked that question. He didn't specify use in the OP.

 

[Big Cheddar]

I don't think any of us are saying "don't buy a diesel". We're just trying to help out OP by pointing out pros and cons is all. No point getting your personality associated with a damned piece of metal.

I don't care if anybody wants a diesel . I don't care what your reason is. The OP didn't ask any of that. Let's keep the thread on track for the OP and not get so defensive about why WE "like" one or the other, hey?

I mostly agree. However . A lot of us explained why we picked one over the other . That Could be helpful to the OP. Since he didn't put down any intended use. We pointed out the reasons. We chose the way we did. He should be better equipped to make an informed decision . If he Reads the reasons for our choices, on both sides.

 

[jejb]

He asked which is best? The 6.7 CTD, or the 6.4 Hemi. The OP asked that question. He didn't specify use in the OP.

You obviously have not read the entire thread. I never said he specified use in the first post.

 

[Big Cheddar]

You obviously have not read the entire thread. I never said he specified use in the first post.

Guilty as charged. I Read the original post . Containing the original question. Based my comments on that. Determined there was nothing to learn. By Reading the ensuing ******* match between Gassers, and Oil Burners. Tried to smooth out the ruffled feathers on both sides a little . By pointing out that neither choice is perfect. They're both compromises. And left. Carry on.