Which hd would be better?

[dieselscout80]

I have a 2500 and I like it.

That said if you are going to be towing a 5th wheel I would want a 3500.

The coil springs on the 2500 are inboard and with top heavy loads it will rock side to side.

There is way more difference between the 2500 and 3500 than just the springs. The rear frame, receiver hitch and sway bars to name a few.

 

[mtofell]

3500 is the right tool but the ride is noticeably more jarring than the coils on the 2500 (yes, I've driven both). OP's theory about same/similar parts is generally accurate. Airbags a "band-aid"?? I guess we can all have our opinions but I'm pretty sure most of us would be damn happy rolling along in a Prevost diesel pusher chassis riding on nothing but a bunch of "band-aids".

Then, there's always the, "your insurance company will deny an accident claim and you'll go to jail in an accident," argument. Neither one is true but I do get the argument and personally try to stay in compliance.

Commercial trucks, bridge weights and pretty much everything that matters runs off axle weights and IMO those (including tires, of course) are ultimately what's most important to stay safe.

 

[Longhorn1500]

Yep, those are sizeable trailers! I wouldn't want to be towing that (I've seen both) with anything smaller than a 3500, and preferably DRW. Pretty much everyone has said the same thing.

 

[62Blazer]

I would be interested in hearing more details about the differences between a 2500 and 3500. From my understanding the main thing was the coils on the 2500 vs. leafs on a 3500. I could understand if the rear frame rails or hitch was a little beefier, but also don't know how that would have any impact on how it tows a 5th wheel?
I can also understand having the leaf springs mounted more outboard would be a little more stable. Though I will say that airbags mount further outboard also which should help. I personally have airbags on a 2500 and they make a world of difference in stability and the "porpoising" going down the road with a trailer. I don't think airbags are a band-aid. Also don't understand when people say all they do is keep the rear end from sagging for looks or something.....I think they definitely make the whole towing experience more enjoyable and the truck much more stable.
Personally think the biggest decision is whether you should be a DRW vs. SRW, and that is more important than the 2500 vs. 3500 debate.

 

[lpennock]

There is a huge difference in top heavy load sway control based on where the springs are mounted. My 06 3500 srw had Stable load bump extensions for the outboard overload springs and had considerably less felt sway than my 18 DRW with factory air until I add a Roadmaster sway bar to the 18. After adding the sway bar the sway control with the truck camper was very similar between the two trucks with the DRW having a slight edge.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Any tow load over 50% of the vehicle weight requires antisway bars per U.S. DOT.

The end.

 

[David Oakes]

Any tow load over 50% of the vehicle weight requires antisway bars per U.S. DOT.

The end.

Any *bumper hitch* tow load (and really, most aren't much problem for the 3500's built in sway control anyway). And it varies by state, not US DOT. Even most states don't require them by law, but all do highly recommend them.

5th wheel hitches don't come with antisway bars (and that was what the op was specifying) so it's really a moot point for this conversation.

 

[dieselscout80]

Any tow load over 50% of the vehicle weight requires antisway bars per U.S. DOT.

The end.

I thought the non air ride 3500 Rams didn’t have rear sway bars.

Also, do you have a source/link for that information?

 

[crash68]

Also don't understand when people say all they do is keep the rear end from sagging for looks or something.....I think they definitely make the whole towing experience more enjoyable and the truck much more stable.

If one is towing a tag-along trailer, using just airbags to level the truck/trailer is a false security, it actually makes the front end of the truck lighter. I've posted a video on this very thing and have had people swear it's nothing more than a sales pitch.
As for a fiver or gooseneck trailer, your correct that one can dial in how the truck handles the load with airbags. We'll leave it at that or the payload police will get their panties in a bunch.

 

[lpennock]

Any tow load over 50% of the vehicle weight requires antisway bars per U.S. DOT.

The end.

I thought the non air ride 3500 Rams didn’t have rear sway bars.

Also, do you have a source/link for that information?

I think we are getting confused between the anti-sway bars that are part of the suspension vs the sway control bars that are part of a equalizer hitch. My original post about the Roadmaster sway bar was the add on suspension sway bar for controlling body sway. While the coil spring 2500 has a rear sway bar I don't think the 3500 has one, at least my 06 and 18 didn't. I think HEMIMANN is talking about the sway control in a equalizer hitch and I would sure like to see the regulation that requires it.

 

[dieselscout80]

I think we are getting confused between the anti-sway bars that are part of the suspension vs the sway control bars that are part of an equalizer hitch. My original post about the Roadmaster sway bar was the add on suspension sway bar for controlling body sway. While the coil spring 2500 has a rear sway bar I don't think the 3500 has one, at least my 06 and 18 didn't. I think HEMIMANN is talking about the sway control in an equalizer hitch and I would sure like to see the regulation that requires it.

I really want to see the reg.

But if it’s true then most equipment trailers are breaking that requirement.

 

[mtofell]

I would be interested in hearing more details about the differences between a 2500 and 3500. From my understanding the main thing was the coils on the 2500 vs. leafs on a 3500.

I've lost track in recent years but back in 2014 when I bought my 2500 the only difference was coils/leafs and the badging. Within a few years they changed the rear axle and I think more recently some other things. My 2500 RAWR is 6500# which I believe was the same as the 3500 (SRW). I believe newer 2500s are 6000# and they now have different part #s from the 3500.

 

[dieselscout80]

Doesn’t look like trailer sway bars are a USDOT requirement (if we can believe AI).

 

[HEMIMANN]

I really want to see the reg.

But if it’s true then most equipment trailers are breaking that requirement.

Google U.S. DOT might also be under NHTSA

 

[lpennock]

Google U.S. DOT might also be under NHTSA

You said it was a requirement and others have called BS so why don't you post the requirement?

 

[Dean2]

You said it was a requirement and others have called BS so why don't you post the requirement?

My take on these kind of things is, hemiman is a long time contributor with a good reputation. He made a comment some or a few disagree with. Up to them to prove him wrong. If I post that the world is round, speed limit violations result in fines, or a bizillion other things I completely believe to be true, and folks disagree, I am not going to be the one posting the proofs.

 

[lpennock]

My take on these kind of things is, hemiman is a long time contributor with a good reputation. He made a comment some or a few disagree with. Up to them to prove him wrong. If I post that the world is round, speed limit violations result in fines, or a bizillion other things I completely believe to be true, and folks disagree, I am not going to be the one posting the proofs.

Problem with your argument is the statement it a regulation. If there is no regulation requiring it no search will produce proof the statement is wrong. So the person claiming it is a regulation should easily be able to produce it since they obviously seen it before. If they can't produce it then they must have made it up.

 

[dieselscout80]

Problem with your argument is the statement it a regulation. If there is no regulation requiring it no search will produce proof the statement is wrong. So the person claiming it is a regulation should easily be able to produce it since they obviously seen it before. If they can't produce it then they must have made it up.

I don’t think he made up, but I want to see chapter and verse of the reg.

On the internet there are many things that are stated as fact, but often there isn’t documentation to back it up leading to false information.

 

[HEMIMANN]

You said it was a requirement and others have called BS so why don't you post the requirement?

Because I work off of memory when I bought my trailer.
You dont like it, stop answering.

 

[nlambert182]

If it's just springs why not just add bags

It's not "just" springs. The 3500 frame has additional frame gussets and if you opt for a 3500 SRW with a 6.7 HO, you also get a 12" rear vs. an 11.5" . Airbags do not increase your capacity at all, they only mask an overweight issue. If the airbag fails all of the weight now sits on that spring.

If you're towing a 5th wheel I would suggest going ahead and at least opting for the 3500 SRW so that you get the leaf sprung suspension. I'd suggest the 6.7 Cummins, but know that it removes about 900 lbs of available payload due to the weight of the engine.

The below is my opinion based on about 20 years of towing everything from small bumper pulls up to 43' triple axle toyhaulers with Ram 2500s and 3500s and tons of personal research so take from it what you wish.

Everything below is based on 400 lbs worth of passengers, no aftermarket accessories on the truck, and a fifth wheel hitch weighing 300 lbs (B&W companion).

2013- current 2500s - Payload is the killer. If you opt for something such as a Bighorn crew cab 4x4 with the 6.7 you're going to be in the range of 1,800 to maybe 2,000 lbs payload capacity depending upon the trim level and configuration of the truck. That will leave you with about 1,300 lbs of available payload (pin weight) or a trailer with a gross weight of 6,500 lbs. If you choose a higher trim level then your payload will decrease further.

2013- current 3500 SRWs - You could get between 3,600-3,800 lbs of payload depending on the configuration. If you opt for the same truck as above, you're looking at about 3,100 lbs of available payload (pin weight) or a trailer with a gross weight of 15.5k lbs.

2013-current 3500 DRWs - You could get between 5,500 - 5,700 lbs of payload depending on the configuration. That leaves about 5k lbs of available payload or a trailer GVWR of 25k lbs.


At the end of the day, always buy more truck than you need. Never try to build the truck up to meet a spec.