Who has actually SEEN the "green ZF transmission instructions" on paper from ZF or dealership?

[BlingRam]

I'm obviously referring to these instructions that are all over this forum [and Jeep forums]... https://www.ramforum.com/threads/transmission-service-question.226059/#post-3100445

So I took my transmission to a local dealer to get the pan/filter replaced and do a "drain & fill". HUGE MISTAKE!! In "their system", they only show to level the vehicle (and not the "transmission pan rail").... so they would not honor the green instructions. I called another mechanic shop about what their instructions show, and he confirmed that AllData does not mention anything about leveling the transmission pan itself (altho, he mentioned that he could and would fill with the transmission level).

I have no doubt that these "green instructions" are real, because they mention "Chrysler", who is apparently the ONLY manufacturer that utilizes the ZF transmissions without them being level to the floor (Ram trucks and Jeeps are the only ones, AFAIK). However, both AllData and the PDF version of the ZF instructions state only that the vehicle needs to be level.

But I'm just trying to figure out who has actually seen these green instructions in real life (aka: not on this forum)..... Do these instructions come with a brand new truck in the glove box? ... or ONLY when ordering a new transmission from a Chrysler dealership?

~~~~~~

HORRIBLE DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE SIDE STORY (at "Cannon Coast Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat" in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The absolute WORST. Avoid like the plague!!!):

As mentioned above, taking my truck to the dealership was a HUGE mistake. I assumed that they'd know the proper way to do this transmission service, but they did not. They didn't even clean the gasket area, so there's dirt visibly between the gasket and the mating surface. When bringing it to their attention, they said "that's not important because it's not leaking -- any more". I had to bring it back, because one of the bolts was showing about 7 threads and was barely hanging on for dear life. They refused to drop the pan again to clean the gasket area, because "that fluid is expensive"... and they refused to refund even a portion of the inflated labor costs, because they "did the work", even if ALL of it was **** poor quality.

I had also asked them to do a coolant flush, and by the time I got home it was obvious that they did NOT properly bleed it. Even after bringing it back to them a second time, the coolant is STILL low after driving it home (even tho they claim they pressure tested it and there were no leaks). Absolutely TERRIBLE experience. No matter where you go, it's probably best to NOT ask them to do multiple jobs at the same time, because this tech ended up doing NEITHER job correctly.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

I have not seen any instructions except on this forum from a trusted member.

I've got multiple ram vehicles 6 to be exact, all with 8 speeds. I've serviced 4 of the 6 transmissions and have followed the green sheet to the best of my ability and leveled the pan not the truck.

I've never experienced a problem yet. Vehicles that I tow with, run across the country with that have to perform regardless of conditions, rain sleet snow heat, etc.

I have NEVER doubted the green sheet because of three things:

I trust the member who offered it up, even though I've never met him.

The steps appear organized and achievable, and my results and experience post service reflect what I expect from a post transmission service

Last, I'm 65 years old have a reasonably sound mind and have worked on vehicles since I was old enough to hold a light for my father, who was a mechanic.

Every transmission service up to the 8 speed had a dipstick where you could check if the fluid level was in range. This transmission doesn't. So it seems reasonable to me, it would require a process to get it full and full means level for it to run out the fill hole. Otherwise how would you know.

My opinion, follow the instructions or not, your truck, your money. But learn to think, just because you don't have a physical hard copy doesn't mean it's not true. It means you have the benefit of members with years of experience, who understand a process. Which by the way, you've shown you don't by making your post.

My .02 cents

 

[BlingRam]

To reiterate what I already stated earlier...

I have no doubt that these "green instructions" are real, because they mention "Chrysler", who is apparently the ONLY manufacturer that utilizes the ZF transmissions without them being level to the floor (Ram trucks and Jeeps are the only ones, AFAIK). However, both AllData and the PDF version of the ZF instructions state only that the vehicle needs to be level.

But I'm just trying to figure out who has actually seen these green instructions in real life (aka: not on this forum)..... Do these instructions come with a brand new truck in the glove box? ... or ONLY when ordering a new transmission from a Chrysler dealership?

I'm ultimately trying to figure out how to PROVE to the dealership (or any mechanic, really), who has "no evidence" of the "proper fill procedure"... that the green sheet is correct.

I hear a whine in the transmission after this transmission service that I didn't hear before. There's a chance that it's all in my head, but I don't think so. That's not something I can really prove, but I would really hope that there's something concrete I could offer this scammership, even if only the proper direction to look, so that they DO the job correctly in the future, as I'm sure I won't be the last person that asks them for a filter replacement and/or drain & refill.

 

[Burla]

See the motor city mechanic two part video. Mind you this is just to check fluid level. Sorry to Rick in advance, I forget he doesn't like part of this. Green paper + Motor City Mechanic > Dealer?

He does say level transmission, not truck!!

Part 1/2: Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram 8 speed 8HP70 transmission fluid level check

Please use the following link when ever using Amazon.com. Any purchases you make on Amazon will help support this channel.http://amzn.to/2mALgqSEveryone love...

youtu.be

 

[Burla]

Chat gpt = trifecta..

To change the fluid in your Ram 1500 8-speed transmission, you must have the transmission fluid pan perfectly level, not the truck's frame or body. Because the truck has a slight factory rake (nose-down), you will need to jack up the rear of the truck until the transmission pan itself is level. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The proper way to check and fill the transmission is to raise the vehicle off the ground, ensuring the transmission pan sits completely level. [1]
Because the ZF 8-speed is a sealed system with no dipstick, follow this strict step-by-step process for an accurate fluid change: [1, 2, 3]

1. • Level the Pan: Support the truck on jack stands. Jack up the rear end until a level placed flat against the transmission pan confirms it is perfectly level side-to-side and front-to-back. [1, 2]
   • Drain and Replace: Remove the fill plug first (to ensure you can refill it), then remove the drain plug and drain the old fluid. If your model has a plastic oil pan with an integrated filter, you will need to replace the entire pan. [1, 2, 3]
   • Initial Fill: Pump new fluid into the fill hole until it begins to trickle out. [1, 2]
   • Cycle the Gears: Start the engine and, with your foot firmly on the brake, shift through Park, Reverse, Neutral, and Drive. Hold each gear for 5 seconds and shift into second gear. [1, 2, 3, 4]
   • Final Fill at Temp: With the engine running, ensure the transmission fluid temperature is between 86°F and 122°F (30°C to 50°C). Top off the fluid through the fill hole until it drips out steadily, then secure the fill plug to the manufacturer's torque specification

 

[Curmudgeon]

@BlingRam

Your locations shows U.S.A., can you be more specific?

Also, there are many folks here, from all over. It would be very useful to
name whatever organization(s) have been a problem for you. I'm certain
no one else here wants to run into the same issues you have seen.

 

[BlingRam]

Your locations shows U.S.A., can you be more specific?

Also, there are many folks here, from all over. It would be very useful to
name whatever organization(s) have been a problem for you. I'm certain
no one else here wants to run into the same issues you have seen.

South Mississippi.

The dealer in question is "Cannon Coast Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat" in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The absolute WORST. Avoid like the plague!!! After sharing my experience with a co-worker, THEN he told me that they did some airbag recall work, and he got home and realized that there were some bolts in the cupholder. When taking the vehicle back, they said they "couldn't get them back in".... he asked that they put them back, and they got most of them back, but there's still a bolt rolling around inside his dash. Wish I had known that beforehand.

I just went to pick up a sheet with the "work order" from my 2nd visit there, and it basically just says that they checked torque of transmission pan bolts and re-checked the fill level. It doesn't mention the coolant level check, which they assured me in person that they pressure tested it and topped off. They also verbally told me that they would NOT fill the transmission pan with the trans level, because all their instructions state vehicle needs to be level. Nothing on Youtube, a forum, or blog is valid reason for them to level the transmission pan. Their "service manager" suggested that the ONLY way for them to level the transmission was to take some transmission mounts out. I pointed out that it looks like their lifts have lift points that appear to have some height adjustability, and he still said they're just not going to do it, because they have nothing from Chrysler or ZF that suggests that any Chrysler vehicle should have its fluid checked any other way than with a level vehicle.

I guess I should just email Chrysler and ZF so I can have a more authoritative source...

 

[Curmudgeon]

What a horrifying experience. I wouldn't want these clowns to pump my gas.

 

[RamInfo]

From the ZF service manual at:

https://manuals.plus/m/58a8995e12c75d34aa424eb4ebbb71ec444406bf97c1003a95f6406cb62cab0c.pdf

It does not specify the pan mating surface be level, but OTOH most vehicles other than RAM and Jeep have the trans sitting pretty level in the car. So as mentioned earlier, outreach to ZF technical support or engineering is likely the only authoritative source that would be respected in, say, a lawsuit over an improperly serviced transmission.

Best,
RI

 

[mdc1990zr1]

From the ZF service manual at:

https://manuals.plus/m/58a8995e12c75d34aa424eb4ebbb71ec444406bf97c1003a95f6406cb62cab0c.pdf

It does not specify the pan mating surface be level, but OTOH most vehicles other than RAM and Jeep have the trans sitting pretty level in the car. So as mentioned earlier, outreach to ZF technical support or engineering is likely the only authoritative source that would be respected in, say, a lawsuit over an improperly serviced transmission.

Best,
RI

View attachment 586941

Now that the green sheet was brought to our attention, especially since the story went something like it was included with a new replacement Ram transmission from the dealer/manufacturer, make sense? If the transmission was sitting on a conveyor belt and awaiting its first fresh factory fill, wouldn’t it be level? The exaggerated rake of the transmission in the Ram truck must have necessitated the green sheet. It was certainly put on good go green paper instead of regular white paper to bring attention to the sheet.

 

[Wild one]

I'm obviously referring to these instructions that are all over this forum [and Jeep forums]... https://www.ramforum.com/threads/transmission-service-question.226059/#post-3100445

So I took my transmission to a local dealer to get the pan/filter replaced and do a "drain & fill". HUGE MISTAKE!! In "their system", they only show to level the vehicle (and not the "transmission pan rail").... so they would not honor the green instructions. I called another mechanic shop about what their instructions show, and he confirmed that AllData does not mention anything about leveling the transmission pan itself (altho, he mentioned that he could and would fill with the transmission level).

I have no doubt that these "green instructions" are real, because they mention "Chrysler", who is apparently the ONLY manufacturer that utilizes the ZF transmissions without them being level to the floor (Ram trucks and Jeeps are the only ones, AFAIK). However, both AllData and the PDF version of the ZF instructions state only that the vehicle needs to be level.

But I'm just trying to figure out who has actually seen these green instructions in real life (aka: not on this forum)..... Do these instructions come with a brand new truck in the glove box? ... or ONLY when ordering a new transmission from a Chrysler dealership?

~~~~~~

HORRIBLE DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE SIDE STORY (at "Cannon Coast Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat" in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The absolute WORST. Avoid like the plague!!!):

As mentioned above, taking my truck to the dealership was a HUGE mistake. I assumed that they'd know the proper way to do this transmission service, but they did not. They didn't even clean the gasket area, so there's dirt visibly between the gasket and the mating surface. When bringing it to their attention, they said "that's not important because it's not leaking -- any more". I had to bring it back, because one of the bolts was showing about 7 threads and was barely hanging on for dear life. They refused to drop the pan again to clean the gasket area, because "that fluid is expensive"... and they refused to refund even a portion of the inflated labor costs, because they "did the work", even if ALL of it was **** poor quality.

I had also asked them to do a coolant flush, and by the time I got home it was obvious that they did NOT properly bleed it. Even after bringing it back to them a second time, the coolant is STILL low after driving it home (even tho they claim they pressure tested it and there were no leaks). Absolutely TERRIBLE experience. No matter where you go, it's probably best to NOT ask them to do multiple jobs at the same time, because this tech ended up doing NEITHER job correctly.

I've bought 2 brand new truck specific 8speeds from the dealer,and both transmissions had the green sheet included in the instructions that were in the crate the transmission was shipped in. I had a conversation with a dealer tech on facebook a couple days ago,and he's also personally seen the green sheet in the crate the transmissions come in,but he's been instructed to ignore them from his higher ups,which he disagrees with,but as he said they sign his paycheck,so he has to go along with what they tell him

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I've bought 2 brand new truck specific 8speeds from the dealer,and both transmissions had the green sheet included in the instructions that were in the crate the transmission was shipped in. I had a conversation with a dealer tech on facebook a couple days ago,and he's also personally seen the green sheet in the crate the transmissions come in,but he's been instructed to ignore them from his higher ups,which he disagrees with,but as he said they sign his paycheck,so he has to go along with what they tell him

Maybe FCA fills the transmission on the assembly line? It seems the transmission was under filled when I changed mine. ZF doesn’t ship the transmission filled, I guess?

 

[Wild one]

Maybe FCA fill the transmission on the assembly line? It seems the transmission was under filled when I changed mine. ZF doesn’t ship the transmission filled, I guess

They're filled as far as the transmission goes,when Ma Mopar receives the transmissions from ZF,but the cooler and lines aren't filled,once the truck is started and those are filled,the transmission will be low on fluid.
Chrysler only builds the little 8speed that's used behind the 3.6's,the bigger 70/75/90/95 are still built by ZF

 

[Burla]

Can we assume not all zf's need to level the trans, because this one is in a truck with a rake if it is OEM, that is the reason we need to level pan.

 

[RamDiver]

Can we assume not all zf's need to level the trans, because this one is in a truck with a rake if it is OEM, that is the reason we need to level pan.

From what I've read, most vehicles have the ZF tranny mounted level instead of angled like in the Ram trucks.

If the tranny is mounted level, no crazy jacking efforts are required.

.

 

[jc56berg]

Seems like the most important part of a tranny fluid service is finding a shop with a mechanic to do the job correctly and to the "T" or you will end up with a dead transmission. I made a call to a very reputable shop in Houston and they quoted me $1150 for a trans service. My mechanic I use who is very Ram knowledgeable was wide eyed shocked. @ Burla very good video link.

 

[Wild one]

Can we assume not all zf's need to level the trans, because this one is in a truck with a rake if it is OEM, that is the reason we need to level pan.

Only the Rams and Jeeps point the transmission downhill Mike,every other application that uses the 8 speed has it pretty well mounted so it's sitting level in the chassis,whether that be a Challenger or a Rolls Royce.
Supposedly Audi has the best factory programing of all the stock applications of the transmissions programing

 

[Wild one]

From the ZF service manual at:

https://manuals.plus/m/58a8995e12c75d34aa424eb4ebbb71ec444406bf97c1003a95f6406cb62cab0c.pdf

It does not specify the pan mating surface be level, but OTOH most vehicles other than RAM and Jeep have the trans sitting pretty level in the car. So as mentioned earlier, outreach to ZF technical support or engineering is likely the only authoritative source that would be respected in, say, a lawsuit over an improperly serviced transmission.

Best,
RI

View attachment 586941

Step #10 does say to have the tires in the air 8",which comes pretty close to leveling the transmission.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Wish that manual stated it was good for 8HP70. Only says 45 and 55

 

[RamDiver]

Wish that manual stated it was good for 8HP70. Only says 45 and 55

8HP70 Repair Manual, accidental discovery

I was googling for something else when I just happened across this. Official ZF repair manual for the 8HP70 transmission. https://avtgr.ru/upload/data/pdf/zf_instructions/8HP70.pdf The pdf is 15.4mb, too large to upload. Even the 9mb compressed says its too large. Filebin link here...

www.ramforum.com

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