Who has actually SEEN the "green ZF transmission instructions" on paper from ZF or dealership?

[Buddy]

I have a friend that has a V6 Ram, just to triple check, that fluid procedure is the same as a Hemi Ram's 8 speed procedure right? Just quadruple checking.

 

[EdGs]

I'm obviously referring to these instructions that are all over this forum [and Jeep forums]... https://www.ramforum.com/threads/transmission-service-question.226059/#post-3100445

So I took my transmission to a local dealer to get the pan/filter replaced and do a "drain & fill". HUGE MISTAKE!! In "their system", they only show to level the vehicle (and not the "transmission pan rail").... so they would not honor the green instructions. I called another mechanic shop about what their instructions show, and he confirmed that AllData does not mention anything about leveling the transmission pan itself (altho, he mentioned that he could and would fill with the transmission level).

I have no doubt that these "green instructions" are real, because they mention "Chrysler", who is apparently the ONLY manufacturer that utilizes the ZF transmissions without them being level to the floor (Ram trucks and Jeeps are the only ones, AFAIK). However, both AllData and the PDF version of the ZF instructions state only that the vehicle needs to be level.

But I'm just trying to figure out who has actually seen these green instructions in real life (aka: not on this forum)..... Do these instructions come with a brand new truck in the glove box? ... or ONLY when ordering a new transmission from a Chrysler dealership?

~~~~~~

HORRIBLE DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE SIDE STORY (at "Cannon Coast Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat" in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The absolute WORST. Avoid like the plague!!!):

As mentioned above, taking my truck to the dealership was a HUGE mistake. I assumed that they'd know the proper way to do this transmission service, but they did not. They didn't even clean the gasket area, so there's dirt visibly between the gasket and the mating surface. When bringing it to their attention, they said "that's not important because it's not leaking -- any more". I had to bring it back, because one of the bolts was showing about 7 threads and was barely hanging on for dear life. They refused to drop the pan again to clean the gasket area, because "that fluid is expensive"... and they refused to refund even a portion of the inflated labor costs, because they "did the work", even if ALL of it was **** poor quality.

I had also asked them to do a coolant flush, and by the time I got home it was obvious that they did NOT properly bleed it. Even after bringing it back to them a second time, the coolant is STILL low after driving it home (even tho they claim they pressure tested it and there were no leaks). Absolutely TERRIBLE experience. No matter where you go, it's probably best to NOT ask them to do multiple jobs at the same time, because this tech ended up doing NEITHER job correctly.

^^^This^^^ kind of thing is precisely why I choose to DIY.

You should have asked this dealer why they're doing the service if Chrysler says it's "sealed for life". Please excuse my sarcasm.

I called my local dealer (twice) to get my 8HP70 serviced, and was fully prepared to bend over and pay them for it. I wasn't sure I could properly DIY it.

Thankfully, my dealer failed to call me back (twice), and the awesome members here gave me the encouragement and confidence to do it myself.

It wasn't cheap, about $400 then for OE pan and fluid from RockAuto. The process was a bit of a PITA, but not that bad, all in all.

If I were you, I'd be doing a fluid check.

Get prepared first, 2 or 3 qts of OE fluid, and a modified garden sprayer ready to go. Get that rear up in the air, pan level, vehicle stable and properly supported, crack the fill plug loose. JUST LOOSE, DO NOT REMOVE IT.

Start up you truck, then remove the fill plug (gently, in case fluid starts running out), and if no fluid runs out, add fresh fluid until it does.

Then, I'd close it up and take it for a full temp run, then let her cool completely, and recheck the trans fluid again.

I'd be willing to bet you're low.

Don't know if it will help the whine you have, I hope so.

Wish you the best, keep us posted.

 

[EdGs]

I hope the tech at least added fluid after startup.

When the pan is first changed, the initial fill will take ~3-1/2 qts. After starting the engine, it will take an additional ~1-1/2 qts, and after the gear runthrough and a full-temp ride and cooldown, may take even a little more.

My Ram took about 5-3/4 qts total, and FWIW, when I initially drained it, I only got about 4-1/2 qts. out. So, it was potentially a ~qt. low right from the factory.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Awesome, thanx

 

[Hanover Fiste]

Seems even the service manual contradicts itself:

Important: The gearbox is filled with oil which will last for its full service life. The oil only has to be replaced after the vehicle has covered between 80,000 km and 120,000 km, depending on the drive conditions, or after 8 years.

 

[Yardbird]

Seems even the service manual contradicts itself:

Important: The gearbox is filled with oil which will last for its full service life. The oil only has to be replaced after the vehicle has covered between 80,000 km and 120,000 km, depending on the drive conditions, or after 8 years.

What they are trying to tell us, while not specifically saying so, is they believe the service life of the transmission is between 80,000 and 120,000 km.

I dread doing this to my truck, but I do not trust anyone to do anything right on my vehicles. The few times I have let others work on any vehicle I have ever owned has proved my lack of trust to be well founded.

It's not that it appears that hard, at this point, the problem is my age and health.

I'm sort of like the old TV commercial...."I've fallen, and I can't get up"....lol

 

[mdc1990zr1]

They're filled as far as the transmission goes,when Ma Mopar receives the transmissions from ZF,but the cooler and lines aren't filled,once the truck is started and those are filled,the transmission will be low on fluid.
Chrysler only builds the little 8speed that's used behind the 3.6's,the bigger 70/75/90/95 are still built by ZF

If the transmissions are sent filled but without taking into account fluid to make up for the coolers and the system, you would think that the engineers at FCA would have pulled some trucks and performed the system fill procedure and determine how much was needed to get the proper fill. Repeated fill procedures should yield a repeatable number. Then that amount could be added to each truck while still on the assembly line. They must feel comfortable with the less than optimal fill as they stand behind the vehicle with a warranty.

 

[Wild one]

If the transmissions are sent filled but remote fluid to make up for the coolers and the system, you would think that the engineers at FCA would have pulled some trucks and performed the system fill procedure and determine how much was needed to get the proper fill. Repeated fill procedures should yield a repeatable number. Then that amount could be added to each truck while still on the assembly line. They must feel comfortable with the less than optimal fill as they stand behind the vehicle with a warranty.

You'd also think they should be able to fill the diffs to,but they're usually also low on fluid You're assuming Stellentis cares about their warrenty,which in alot of cases isn't worth the paper it's wrote on

 

[Mojo88]

Step #10 does say to have the tires in the air 8",which comes pretty close to leveling the transmission.

I saw that as well.... BUT ...... it does not clearly specify to have just the 'rear' tires in the air 8". It looked to me like they just meant to have the vehicle on a lift and have all the tires at least 8" off the ground, so that you could be rotating the tires without the vehicle moving.

It seems a tad dangerous to have to raise the rear 8", in order to go through all those steps to check the fluid. Honestly, I don't want to be crawling around under the truck with the rear end jacked up 8 full inches.

I do know a great transmission guy who's been in business many years. I will try to get an opinion from him on the refill procedure; specifically - fill while truck level, or fill while the rear jacked up 8" (trans level).

 

[Wild one]

I saw that as well.... BUT ...... it does not clearly specify to have just the 'rear' tires in the air 8". It looked to me like they just meant to have the vehicle on a lift and have all the tires at least 8" off the ground, so that you could be rotating the tires without the vehicle moving.

It seems a tad dangerous to have to raise the rear 8", in order to go through all those steps to check the fluid. Honestly, I don't want to be crawling around under the truck with the rear end jacked up 8 full inches.

I do know a great transmission guy who's been in business many years. I will try to get an opinion from him on the refill procedure; specifically - fill while truck level, or fill while the rear jacked up 8" (trans level).

Chock the front tires and use good jack stands,and you'll be perfectly safe.You're not under the truck when you're going through the procedure,the only time you're under it while it's running is when it's in park to do the final check.
Doing brakes on jack stands is more dangerous,as you're usually prying and pulling on things while replacing rotors etc.,and you have no tires on it,and i'll lay odds you've done brakes in your life.
At least doing the transmission,the tires are still on the truck,and it's in park,so it won't run over you. If you're that worried about it falling off the jack stands put some dunage/blocks under the rear tires,so it'll only fall a few inches,but unless you're massively over weight,even if it did fall it shouldn't hurt you

 

[EdGs]

If the transmissions are sent filled but remote fluid to make up for the coolers and the system, you would think that the engineers at FCA would have pulled some trucks and performed the system fill procedure and determine how much was needed to get the proper fill. Repeated fill procedures should yield a repeatable number. Then that amount could be added to each truck while still on the assembly line. They must feel comfortable with the less than optimal fill as they stand behind the vehicle with a warranty.

With mine, even though it was ~1 qt. low from the factory, I had no noticeable issues shifting, other than the "bump" every so often when releasing the brake to accelerate from a stop.

How huge is the savings across an entire build when every Ram 8HP is shipped 1 qt. under? Huge.

 

[Wild one]

With mine, even though it was ~1 qt. low from the factory, I had no noticeable issues shifting, other than the "bump" every so often when releasing the brake to accelerate from a stop.

How huge is the savings across an entire build when every Ram 8HP is shipped 1 qt. under? Huge.

Add in the cars to Ed,as the Challengers / Chargers and 300's are shipped low on fluids to. I'd also hazard a guess the Jeeps / Mini-vans and Durango's etc. all are shipped low on fluids to

 

[EdGs]

Add in the cars to Ed,as the Challengers / Chargers and 300's are shipped low on fluids to. I'd also hazard a guess the Jeeps / Mini-vans and Durango's etc. all are shipped low on fluids to

Wow, how many millions of 8 speed equipped vehicles have been produced since 2013/14?

Crazy.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

I can personally vouch. My 24 1500 classic warlock was under filled, in both the front and rear diffs, transfer case and 8 speed transmission.

Engine oil was spot on but Hercules Tighten the oil filter as it as a major pain to remove.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

With mine, even though it was ~1 qt. low from the factory, I had no noticeable issues shifting, other than the "bump" every so often when releasing the brake to accelerate from a stop.

How huge is the savings across an entire build when every Ram 8HP is shipped 1 qt. under? Huge.

My transfer case was underfilled also. I know that that and the front and rear differentials did not have fluid come out when I took the fill plug off first.
When I worked at Infinity in the ‘90s, further PDI (predelivery inspection) the master mechanic told me all the fluids had to be “topped off” as everything was shipped low on fluid. I guess all the manufacturers have been doing it.

 

[EdGs]

I can personally vouch. My 24 1500 classic warlock was under filled, in both the front and rear diffs, transfer case and 8 speed transmission.

Engine oil was spot on but Hercules Tighten the oil filter as it as a major pain to remove.

Hercules was also tightening the fill plugs on the side of the ZF transmissions. I had to use a cheater to break mine free.

My transfer case was underfilled also. I know that that and the front and rear differentials did not have fluid come out when I took the fill plug off first.
When I worked at Infinity in the ‘90s, further PDI (predelivery inspection) the master mechanic told me all the fluids had to be “topped off” as everything was shipped low on fluid. I guess all the manufacturers have been doing it.

Yep, makes sense. A few ounces per transfer case or diff or transmission, and you've got many, many gallons of fluids off your bottom line.

More bonuses for the big shots that way.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Hercules was also tightening the fill plugs on the side of the ZF transmissions. I had to use a cheater to break mine free.


Yep, makes sense. A few ounces per transfer case or diff or transmission, and you've got many, many gallons of fluids off your bottom line.

More bonuses for the big shots that way.

My shop topped the fluids up. Obviously, the dealer that prepped my RAM sent it as the factory shipped it. It really sucks that we live in a world where we really can’t trust and have to verify everything

 

[EdGs]

A little AI search said that Chrysler started using the ZF transmission in 2011, and by 2014, they had installed it in over a million units.

If all those transmissions were 1 quart low, that's a crap ton of transmission fluid they've not had to purchase over the last 15 years.

Holy unicorn p*ss, Batman!