Will GM pull out of the trash with the new trucks?

[HEMIMANN]

Now tell me a 5% Hemi cam failure rate is "trivial":

"General Motors issued a massive safety recall affecting approximately 597,630 vehicles in the U.S. (and over 721,000 globally) equipped with the 6.2L V8 L87 engine. However, GM estimates that only about 3% of these engines (approximately 17,929 units in the U.S.) actually suffer from the manufacturing defect and require a full replacement."

Some less experienced members don't understand severity of failure statistics and fix-as-fail economics, yet spout how they know what industry does. Unlike those of us who spent decades inside these corporations.

 

[Tominator223]

It seems the issue has become greed & global mfg . The manufactures aren’t happy with what they make $$$ from wear items & accidents. Bringing in service$$$ & a new customer thats vehicle was totaled. They seem to think the majority can just throw 50-100k down for a new vehicle & it’s fine if the engine or transmission goes out in2-5yrs . They’ll just come by another one. And that’s just not how it is. They have lost touch with their customer base. Which ever manufacture comes out with a vehicle like a pre-08 anything. No extra nanny electronics. Bullet prof drive train for 50k or less will become the winner in new sales. Build em right & customers will buy em & brag on em sales will go up. I do service work & if I can’t get 300,000 miles out of a new truck 1500,2500,3500. I’ll put 20grand in a 20-30 yr old truck because I know I’ll get those miles. Because if I’m dumping 50-100 in a new one & it’s in the shop all the time for repairs. Now they're are costing me $$$$. Regardless of what their overall % of failure is. My2cents

 

[Gary Fields]

I believe GM will hire the best engineers and spend millions on a new design. The end result with result with a great engine capable of running 500K. Before production starts the guys from accounting will review it and see that they can reduce costs by $24.62 per unit if they made a few changes. A little plastic here, a little aluminum over there, skip a few steps here and there and nobody will notice the changes-right?

 

[Docwagon1776]

Now tell me a 5% Hemi cam failure rate is "trivial":

"General Motors issued a massive safety recall affecting approximately 597,630 vehicles in the U.S. (and over 721,000 globally) equipped with the 6.2L V8 L87 engine. However, GM estimates that only about 3% of these engines (approximately 17,929 units in the U.S.) actually suffer from the manufacturing defect and require a full replacement."

Some less experienced members don't understand severity of failure statistics and fix-as-fail economics, yet spout how they know what industry does. Unlike those of us who spent decades inside these corporations.

I don't believe GM. They are saying a small number got the crankshaft or related components damaged during manufacturing. If it's just a small number of engines that got dinged up components, there wouldn't be any reason to change the recommended oil viscosity on all of them to "fix" the ones that "pass inspection". To me it looks like they are just minimizing the financial damage and hoping the accelerated wear isn't enough to kill the motors that "pass" before the warranty expires.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I don't believe GM. They are saying a small number got the crankshaft or related components damaged during manufacturing. If it's just a small number of engines that got dinged up components, there wouldn't be any reason to change the recommended oil viscosity on all of them to "fix" the ones that "pass inspection". To me it looks like they are just minimizing the financial damage and hoping the accelerated wear isn't enough to kill the motors that "pass" before the warranty expires.

My point is more to Design Failure Mode Effects Analysis (DFMEA), which ALL large corporations use to produce products (including my former company). They then decide which failures are "tolerable", if you will, and which are not. Ford was even caught making a cost tradeoff for death effects.

I'd like to see the FCA books on Hemi cams.

 

[Sandevino]

On the other hand, the average consumer keeps their vehicle 3-5 years or 60k miles. Manufacturers know this and engineer their vehicles to last just as long as the average consumer will just buy another.

 

[Hootbro]

GM always claims they have turned the corner to better quality with each generation change of a model. They have burned me three times with this, no more from me.

 

[Buddy]

My point is more to Design Failure Mode Effects Analysis (DFMEA), which ALL large corporations use to produce products (including my former company). They then decide which failures are "tolerable", if you will, and which are not. Ford was even caught making a cost tradeoff for death effects.

I'd like to see the FCA books on Hemi cams.

I believe GM did a cost - death ratio as well. The Chevy Cobalts and also the '79 Malibu's. They were factoring in how many customers deaths they could have vs recalls cost. I think all the manus have done it, just not all get caught.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I believe GM did a cost - death ratio as well. The Chevy Cobalts and also the '79 Malibu's. They were factoring in how many customers deaths they could have vs recalls cost. I think all the manus have done it, just not all get caught.

With Mary Barra in charge, I have little doubt today. She was promoted from Purchasing. Knows nothing about products or design.

 

[Buddy]

Yea, she's the female Carlos, destroying a brand outright. At least they showed Carlos the door, I have no idea why Mary is still there. Having a car enthusiast holding the reins of a car company... what a novel idea. Now it's people your convinced are bicycle enthusiasts.

 

[Docwagon1776]

My point is more to Design Failure Mode Effects Analysis (DFMEA), which ALL large corporations use to produce products (including my former company). They then decide which failures are "tolerable", if you will, and which are not. Ford was even caught making a cost tradeoff for death effects.

I'd like to see the FCA books on Hemi cams.

Sure, I was just adding to that. I think we all know you can overengineer the **** out of anything, but there's always a trade off. Financially, generally, but also in other characteristics for the user.

In this instance, I think the failures were not foreseen nor within accepted (or stated) rates. I think it's more akin to Stellantis' 4xe debacle than the hemi failures. Higher failure rates than publicly acknowledged, ongoing recalls after a stop sale, and bandaid fixes until the warranty is out.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Sure, I was just adding to that. I think we all know you can overengineer the **** out of anything, but there's always a trade off. Financially, generally, but also in other characteristics for the user.

In this instance, I think the failures were not foreseen nor within accepted (or stated) rates. I think it's more akin to Stellantis' 4xe debacle than the hemi failures. Higher failure rates than publicly acknowledged, ongoing recalls after a stop sale, and bandaid fixes until the warranty is out.

Too many mega corporations run by bean counters now days.

 

[97RedRam]

I personally do not trust ANY new truck from any manufacturer. After working in the automobile industry for nearly 30 years the caliber and work ethnic of the people building the trucks and cars of today is no where near what it used to be. Many of the workers of today have no pride in their work. They just want the money.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Generous Motors will never change the 5.3 6.2 W/ AFM,DFM every lifter is affected by it, and the famous Mexican built crank shaft that Dremel tools or sandpaper was used for mains and rods imperfections and never properly cleaned of debris, so particles got into the lubrication system mains and rod bearings, my daughter had 2 GMC Denali and 1 Cadillac Escalade with the 6.2 junk one locked up at a high speed and caused an accident, now she owns a Toyota Hylander Hybrid non plug in and it's been problem free W 70,000 on the clock.

 

[BurtShaver]

You know, sometimes I think (I know, some would say a rare occurance for me ), The old train of thought was always; one has to practise 10,000 hours to master a task. So vehicles have been in mass production over a hundred years, a century. Think about that. So one would think every single piece of an automobile should be perfected at this time. Any new additions or such should just compliment them. So how come we all see it togeather, new anything have so many teething problems? I mean, an engine should be 100% bulletproof unstoppable. Yet we're at a point where people say "cross your fingers", "hopefully it wasn't made on a Monday", "where are you gonna buy, they're all bad", etc. Come on, a century... at this point the only 'lemon' and vehicle should ever be is a color if thats what the owner ordered. Warranties should just be a hollow word, 100 years in, absolutely nothing should break.
So either on purpose (yes), or stop hiring the guy eating the crayons and glue to design everything. So with that we pretty much know for a fact planned obsolescence. And hey, I'm not a negative nelly b*tching all the time, I grew up a car fanatic. I love cars and trucks. I just want everyone to buy perfection with their cash today and be trouble free.
Shouldn't have to have discussions about wondering if a 'new' powerplant will be leaving the driver co-piloting with the tow truck driver. I honestly don't remember engines getting released years ago and having a 'wait and see if she blows' attitude.
I knew lots of guys with old chevy 305's with hundreds of thousands of miles and they barely changed their oil ever. Way back a buddy tried to kill his 305 when the car was done, avoided oil for it I don't know how many miles the oil had on it. It still would not die. Today we have members here going over samples of every oil change to create a database we can all use to make these engines keep running.
Have we taken steps backwards?
We joke around and say what would you buy tomorrow if you had to buy a brand new vehicle? I say none, I'dd be looking used, a bit older. And I'dd say it sadly, cause I love vehicles and the interests of it.
So fo GM's new redesigned engines, for owners benefit and the love of automotive, I say "Kudos! I hope it's bulletproof. My fingers are crossed, hopefully it wasn't designed and built on a Monday, and there's no lemon yellow colors anywhere in or around the engine bays"

Sure feels like a step backwards for me, usually in the name of efficiency. Same as appliance, energy efficient translates to crap to me.

 

[Dusty]

I don't believe GM. They are saying a small number got the crankshaft or related components damaged during manufacturing. If it's just a small number of engines that got dinged up components, there wouldn't be any reason to change the recommended oil viscosity on all of them to "fix" the ones that "pass inspection". To me it looks like they are just minimizing the financial damage and hoping the accelerated wear isn't enough to kill the motors that "pass" before the warranty expires.

Keep in mind that GM's statement is just a snapshot in time. Failures are still occurring and I suspect the oil viscosity solution is hiding future failures.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 154998 miles.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Keep in mind that GM's statement is just a snapshot in time. Failures are still occurring and I suspect the oil viscosity solution is hiding future failures.

I don't believe GM. They are saying a small number got the crankshaft or related components damaged during manufacturing. If it's just a small number of engines that got dinged up components, there wouldn't be any reason to change the recommended oil viscosity on all of them to "fix" the ones that "pass inspection". To me it looks like they are just minimizing the financial damage and hoping the accelerated wear isn't enough to kill the motors that "pass" before the warranty expires.

Looks like we're saying the same thing.