Will Ram go bigger than the 6.4?

[Trap_Shooter]

What’s everyone’s opinion on Ram coming out with a larger motor to compete with Fords new 7.3? If so when do you think it will happen? Any rumors?


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[corneileous]

They could just bump up the juice a little in the big 392 and call it a day. No need I see for a bigger motor.

Last year’s model Charger SRT 392 is sportin’ 485hp and 475 pound feet of torque. Unless there’s just something I’m not seeing, there’s no reason for the HD trucks to not already have those numbers.




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[392DevilDog]

The charger 392 is a completely different motor. Just like the 8.0l V10 in the truck was completely different in the Viper.

The Charger motor is not made for severe service...

But I am sure the 392 Heavy Duty has plenty of bump room...and I am sure somewhere at FCA there is King Kong to battle Fords Godzilla

 

[pwjouster]

supercharge it and gain mileage at cruising speed guaranteed.

turbocharge it and you have a race truck

6.2 hellcrate and ZF it and you have the greatest truck on earth

 

[corneileous]

The charger 392 is a completely different motor. Just like the 8.0l V10 in the truck was completely different in the Viper.

The Charger motor is not made for severe service...

But I am sure the 392 Heavy Duty has plenty of bump room...and I am sure somewhere at FCA there is King Kong to battle Fords Godzilla

How is it a completely different motor?? Is there really that much more/complex performance parts on the Charger/Challenger 392 like there definitely was when you start talking about the 8.0L between the truck and the Viper? Which, from what I was told years ago, the only difference between the Ram V-10 and the Viper V-10 was that the Ram 8.0L, was a cast iron block- the Viper V-10, an aluminum block with all sorts of different power goodies.

But all in all, maybe there is more to the Challenger/Charger/Durango and I guess Cherokee 392 that meets the eye but still, maybe not those types of numbers but certainly more than just the mere 15hp/19tq over the 5.7.


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[392DevilDog]

You can google the differences...but to summerize...passenger car application vs Heavy Duty truck severe service application.

The same difference between the 5.7 hemi in a charger and the 5.7l Hemi in a 1500, only on a larger scale.

Look at the difference between the specs for the 6.4l BGE in a 2500 and then in a 4500 chassis cab.

There is a good bit of difference there as well.

But, mainly, different heads, block,pistons, tunes, you get the idea.

The 6.4l BGE in the Heavy duty has more in common with the HellCat engine than the Apache

 

[392DevilDog]

6.4l Apache is the SRT engine


6.4l BGE is the HeavyDuty Big Gas Engine

 

[corneileous]

You can google the differences...but to summerize...passenger car application vs Heavy Duty truck severe service application.

The same difference between the 5.7 hemi in a charger and the 5.7l Hemi in a 1500, only on a larger scale.

Look at the difference between the specs for the 6.4l BGE in a 2500 and then in a 4500 chassis cab.

There is a good bit of difference there as well.

But, mainly, different heads, block,pistons, tunes, you get the idea.

The 6.4l BGE in the Heavy duty has more in common with the HellCat engine than the Apache

That’s all fine and dandy but I think we can both agree that they could do a lot better than just current numbers in the 392.


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[392DevilDog]

That’s all fine and dandy but I think we can both agree that they could do a lot better than just current numbers in the 392.


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And I said there is bump room in my above post...but at the cost of severe service. The 6.4l BGE goes through the same 300,000 mile test as the Cummins.

The reason there was no power bump for the 2019 RAM HeavyDuty was because at launch they still held the standing as most powerful gas HD and most available payload on a Gas HD.

Now that that is not the case, you will be sure RAM will change that.

In case you didn't know, in 2018 you could get the base 5.7l Hemi and the optional 6.4l upgrade.

Now the 6.4l is the base and only engine option for 2019.

So, 2021, very good chance there will be an optional Gas engine.

Also, a 7.0l Hemi was in the works. It originally was rumored to be a 426 Hemi for the TR version of the TRX. It was shelved at the moment, but that was before the 7.3l Ford debuted.

If you read what RAM says in its acceptance of 2020 truck of the year...they are done chasing the ever climbing towing numbers...but they are very interested in making their trucks do the current work better.

Good times to be a RAM fan...they know how to build a truck.

 

[392DevilDog]

Just for info...the Reason I have a 2015 with the 392 and 6 spd and not a 2019 with 392 and 8spd is solely because I believe 2021 is going to show a more powerful 6.4l AND an optional Bigger Gas Engine.

 

[corneileous]

The 6.4L 392ci debuted in the Ram HD’s when, in 2014? It’s still producing the same exact numbers as it did 5 and a half, 6 years ago.

I realize there’s another 4 more year’s difference between the 345ci Hemi that’s in my 2018 1500 and the 2008 1500 I had but we’re talking a difference of 50hp/35tq between the 18 and the 08.

Something could be improved.


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[corneileous]

Just for info...the Reason I have a 2015 with the 392 and 6 spd and not a 2019 with 392 and 8spd is solely because I believe 2021 is going to show a more powerful 6.4l AND an optional Bigger Gas Engine.

Funny, I was telling another member yesterday that if I would’ve known they were gonna put an 8-speed behind that 392 in the 2019 HD’s that there’s a good chance I would’ve waited another year to buy my new truck. Lol. Not that I need a big 3/4 ton as my half-ton serves me well but I’m sure those extra two gears made quite an improvement from that 6-speed.


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[392DevilDog]

Just to compare apples to apples. The HD 5.7l was rated 383 horsepower and 400 torque

And the 5.7l only had 9000lbs GVWR.

The 6.4l allowed the HD Gas to have the same 10000lbs GVWR as the Cummins equipped trucks.

I completely agree with you, @corneileous.

I am just trying to show that the HD truck motor is so much different than its light Duty counter part and isn't all about the usual horse and torque numbers.

Because alot of people do not understand this.

I get in this discussion often.

Just trying to get good info and thought processes into this...tried it in the payload and towing conversations, but that is a lost cause lol

 

[Trap_Shooter]

I’m really hoping 2021 will be the year because I’ll be in the market for a new truck next year or the year after. I personally think Ram will wait till 2022 or when the new true 5th Gen truck makes its debut.


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[392DevilDog]

I’m really hoping 2021 will be the year because I’ll be in the market for a new truck next year or the year after. I personally think Ram will wait till 2022 or when the new true 5th Gen truck makes its debut.


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Yes 2021 calendar year as in when the info is out a 2022 model year.

 

[Tim Garceau]

The power-band and graph of an Apache SRT vs the HD 6.4 is shifted toward the lower end for towing and hauling. I do see a possible 426HD platform once the emissions craze backs off.

FWIW, the 2013+ 5.7 in the trucks is a much better powerhouse due to the active intake and cam/timing aggression. The car market didn’t want to take away from 6.4 sales($6k option), the 5.7 is a 430-440 hp engine with a little tweaking and unrestricting of the 370hp advertised. Obviously a decent revving curve but mated with the 8 speeds it is fantastic.

 

[dhay13]

I think many won't care as much about the HP numbers but only at the engine size. It isn't always about performance but perception. Non gearheads that want to impress their buddies will always go for the bigger size engine. So a truck with a 7.3 badge on the fender with 425HP would be better to them than a 6.4 with 475HP. Remember the old V10 Ford? Dodge came out with their V10 so Ford followed suit but it was only 412ish C.I. It was a pig for a V10 but Ford guys loved it. Bought them up cause they had the big V10 badge.

 

[Derek Powers]

How many years has GM's 6.0 been in production and still is...about 20yrs. It's a proven reliable motor aside from the exhaust manifold studs. Definitely underpowered for a 2500 towing much. My 6.4 with 4.10's is a beast compared to those.

 

[crash68]

How is it a completely different motor?? Is there really that much more/complex performance parts on the Charger/Challenger 392 like there definitely was when you start talking about the 8.0L between the truck and the Viper? Which, from what I was told years ago, the only difference between the Ram V-10 and the Viper V-10 was that the Ram 8.0L, was a cast iron block- the Viper V-10, an aluminum block with all sorts of different power goodies.

@392DevilDog hit it on the head, the 6.4 in the trucks is designed for severe duty, the life expectancy of the Charger version would be greatly diminished if you tried to tow a heavy trailer with it all day. There is a alot more consideration of thermal management for the trucks.

As for the Viper motor, that was actually R&D by Lamborghini, Chrysler owned them at the time.

 

[Jeff Courtney]

All the hp and torque mean nothing if its not matched with a trans, gears, and tune to optimize it under real world conditions. My '18 3500 SRW CC 4wd 6sp 4:10 6.4 is a beast when not towing. Put my 6x10 cargo trailer loaded with material & tools tow mode keeps it in the power at interstate speeds but 10-11 mpg. Towing my 7800# excavator on my 20ft gooseneck is a workout and 8mpg max. IMO, trans not best for towing.