Winter questions for noob owner

[MoPowered]

Congrats on your Wife being 5 yrs Cancer free, the only thing I’d add to the above and the operation of the truck in snowy weather is this. If your foot isn’t on the gas the 4 wheel drive ain’t working. So no coasting into corner’s, you need to be going an appropriate speed that you throttle through a turn.
All 4wd systems work on 1 basic principal, wheel slippage. If you truck doesn’t sense wheel slippage, ie: no pedal input it won’t respond in 4wd. Subaru, Toyota and some other brands use a braking system to eliminate slippage and reducing power to the wheels that are slipping and you apply more pedal input that way ie:, 4wd responds. Also there is no worse a vehicle in the snow than a 4wd truck that isn’t in 4wd because of the light beds. Throw some weight in the bed and slow down enough that you can keep some pedal input for traction, good luck and Congrats again.

 

[Tim7139]

The 3rd gen manual has a line that may have lead to some thinking 55mph is a recommended limit.
"If the vehicle is in motion, shifts can be made up to 55 mph (88 km/h)".
This is a max shift speed, not a max operational point.

That being said, other wisdom from the manual indicates a number below the speed limit should likely be in mind.
"The 4H and 4L positions are intended for loose, slippery road surfaces only. Driving in the 4H and 4L positions on
dry hard surfaced roads may cause increased tire wear and damage to the driveline components...Because 4-wheel drive provides improved traction, there is a tendency to exceed safe turning and stopping speeds. Do not go faster than road conditions permit."
How fast you can go on a highway in loose, slippery road surface conditions is legislated throughout North America as variations on the phrase "No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing." which while normally a judgment call is commonly viewed as under the posted speed limit.

In many jurisdictions having your vehicle in 4H can be used to support a claim of excessive speed based on conditions for ticking purposes, insurance liability, or support civil lawsuits. Thankfully since you may choose to flip it on when pulling over there may be wiggle room, unless the airbags go off. If your airbags are deployed 4wd status is a logged datapoint in the EDR/Black Box. States and Provinces have different laws governing access of the data, with many seeing the data as free for the taking without a warrant or probable cause.

 

[star_deceiver]

How fast can you stop? Much faster than the idiots on all seasons!

 

[Tim7139]

...truck has anti slip rear end...

Something to keep in the back of your mind from the manual - When starting with only one rear wheel on an excessively slippery surface, slight momentary application of the parking brake may be necessary to gain maximum traction.

 

[kurek]

Something to keep in the back of your mind from the manual - When starting with only one rear wheel on an excessively slippery surface, slight momentary application of the parking brake may be necessary to gain maximum traction.

That's good advice for older trucks, traction control does that for you now and it only clicks the wheel that needs it, too

I know some people call traction control and its buddies nannies but they're not all out to spoil a good time.. if you let 'em do their job they often do it very well!

 

[JS4024]

If it has auto 4x4 leave it there. If only 4 hi, 4 lo and 2wd use 2wd unless u really “need” 4x4. 4wd is not designed to be used in dry or even wet road conditions.

 

[CVX20]

Congrats on the wife's success! For added winter stability, many of us carry a few hundred lbs of tube sand in the bed. I usually run with around 400+ from November through March. I echo what others have said re tires.

Good luck!

I'm sure that poor sand wanted to get out for a ride anyway.That's the only reason I can see for hauling an extra 400 lbs. around all winter in a 4x4.Use the 4x4 ,that's what you bought it for.


BTW To the OP you can shift on the fly all day long and won't hurt a thing.Just coast a bit to let the front axle get hooked and unhooked before you put the power back on.Stopping to shift is only necessary for 4 wheel low.You were right in your thinking.Run it in 4wd as long as it's slippery and shift to 2wd when the roads dry up(don't stop just get off of the go pedal for a few seconds).Too much dry road running will stretch the chain in the T-case.

 

[imcoldhere]

greetings all

for the op ive had my 14 ram since new and now sitting at 85000km. i live in alberta and we typically get 7 months of winter here so lots of snow. i am on my second set of wrangler sra's which are the stock tire and use them all year round. soon as the snow starts flying i put it in 4x4 lock and leave it there until snow starts melting this includes highway driving at speeds of 100-120km and no issues yet other than broken exhaust studs. i personally would not use 4x4 auto due to the fact that when cruising on highway its in 2wd and then lets you go to pass or something and speed up then rear end kicks out, truck sees that and decides to lock 4x4 at that moment and then the truck gets grip and shoots you off either into ditch or oncoming traffic depending on the road setup. will also note i dont carry any extra weight.

hope it helps

 

[kurek]

i personally would not use 4x4 auto due to the fact that when cruising on highway its in 2wd and then lets you go to pass or something and speed up then rear end kicks out, truck sees that and decides to lock 4x4 at that moment and then the truck gets grip and shoots you off either into ditch or oncoming traffic depending on the road setup.

Not picking on you in particular but I see this mentioned a lot and I don't have first hand ownership experience with the auto transfer case in Ram 1500's specifically - but I do have extensive first hand experience with other applications of BW's TOD system and other auto-4WD on vehicles (Isuzu, Jeep, Ford) and on all of those it is programmed to engage the aux secondary axle briefly on any launch because it can't know whether it's on a slippery surface until slip occurs, so it hedges the bets by just starting off in 4wd from every stop and from any application of additional throttle at higher speeds. You can even watch the little TOD engagement indicators light up on Isuzu's dashboard to illustrate how much it's engaging the front axle - which it will do even if you're going 50mph and mash the pedal. On my Jeep which is natively front wheel drive with an auto-4wd engagement of the rear axle it does the same thing and with JSCAN software on a phone I can watch it display % engagement in real time, it always pulses the clutch when throttle is applied from a stop or while under way.

What I'm getting at here is that other applications of this auto-4wd scheme are proactive with engaging the second axle, are we sure that the Ram application is not?

On WJ's with Quadra-Drive the front axle engagement is mechanical and completely reactive so on those it really is necessary to slip first before the front axle comes in. But that's because it needs a difference in driveshaft speed to pump oil behind the clutch engage piston... that's a world of difference from electronic control.

 

[LouM]

How fast can you stop? Much faster than the idiots on all seasons!

View attachment 227602

Just got my set of 4 nice new Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 yesterday, dang now my wallets so light it's hard to hold it down.

 

[Tim7139]

That's good advice for older trucks, traction control does that for you now and it only clicks the wheel that needs it, too

That's misleading.

Use of the parking brake to utilize LSD is direction provided by the 5th gen 1500 owners manual on page 251, and is not older out dated information.

The TCS feature your referring to is Brake Limited Differential (BLD), and is discussed on page 155 of the same manual where the manual states BLD functions similar to a limited slip differential. BLD is not taking the steps needed to utilize LSD if equipped, as during BLD activation the brake is rapidly cycled on and off preventing LSD function.

Is an LSD still useful on road? Will applying the parking brake to enable LSD when starting on slick roads instead of waiting for BLD still produce a superior result on road? Based on my experience yes and yes, but I expect we'll see many contrary opinions.

 

[Tim7139]

What I'm getting at here is that other applications of this auto-4wd scheme are proactive with engaging the second axle, are we sure that the Ram application is not?

I can confirm it is proactive.

You can test yourself. Warm up truck. Find some open space. Disable traction and stability control. Enable Tow/Haul. Select 4 auto. Fully apply throttle and accelerate to desired speed. Repeat with 4 high and 2wd and then compare results.

My buddy Nick and I run the test in 4 auto often on all sorts of surfaces in his '18 Sport to ensure proper clutch operation ;-).

 

[Tim7139]

How fast can you stop? Much faster than the idiots on all seasons!

View attachment 227602

Unless it's warm or the roads are bare, which it is more often than not in Airdrie.

 

[Tim7139]

...soon as the snow starts flying i put it in 4x4 lock and leave it there until snow starts melting this includes highway driving at speeds of 100-120km and no issues ...

If you have the transfer case without the 4 auto option and try that you'll find it hard to make tight turns when parking on bare roads, and you may get some hop/shutter when driving on the highway.

 

[imcoldhere]

If you have the transfer case without the 4 auto option and try that you'll find it hard to make tight turns when parking on bare roads, and you may get some hop/shutter when driving on the highway.

I have been driving it this way for 6 years and have noticed neither of those happening

 

[kurek]

. BLD is not taking the steps needed to utilize LSD if equipped, as during BLD activation the brake is rapidly cycled on and off preventing LSD function.

.

You might want to rethink that.

Clutch LSD works on the basis that there are ramps on either side of the kingpin and the more torque is present, the harder the kingpin runs up the ramps and the more pressure is applied to the clutches.


It does not care where that torque comes from. If both tires on that axle have zero traction it's a moot point. If one tire has traction then it supplies its own resistance to movement and does not need additional help from the brakes. The preload springs provide a means for conducting some of that resistance across to the opposite tire, which brings the cam ramps into play and ideally causes both tires to rotate and completes the LSD's job.

In the absence of preload springs or if the preload is not sufficient to wedge the cam hard enough to complete the LSD's job of pretending it's a spool, the operator can apply the brakes. Applying the brakes (or the parking brake) works equally on both sides of the axle and that's fine, but the one tire which has traction is already supplying its own resistance so the brake effort applied to that side is wasted, and fights against moving the vehicle. It is only necessary to apply brake pressure to the free wheel which then brings the cam ramps into play, the LSD does its job and presumably you continue on your way.

In simple terms the BLD is not "preventing LSD function" it is promoting LSD function in a way that is much more surgical than you can do with your foot on the brake. That is the whole reason Ram 1500s no longer have preload in their LSD after BLD was introduced, the preload is not necessary thanks to BLD's function of applying brake pressure to the free wheel.

 

[indept]

On WJ's with Quadra-Drive the front axle engagement is mechanical and completely reactive so on those it really is necessary to slip first before the front axle comes in. But that's because it needs a difference in driveshaft speed to pump oil behind the clutch engage piston... that's a world of difference from electronic control.

I had a 2000 WJ which had the NV-242 (hopefully my recollection part # is correct???)
It had 4wd full time & part time options. The difference was full time engaged a differential between front & rear so good to run on dry pavement & part time was a solid lock. It worked well & didn't have any clutches involved. I drove that every day to work mostly in full time mode and sold it with 210k miles and transfer case worked fine, nothing more than fluid changes. IMO it was a better system than my Ram has.

 

[kurek]

I had a 2000 WJ which had the NV-242 (hopefully my recollection part # is correct???)
It had 4wd full time & part time options. The difference was full time engaged a differential between front & rear so good to run on dry pavement & part time was a solid lock. It worked well & didn't have any clutches involved. I drove that every day to work mostly in full time mode and sold it with 210k miles and transfer case worked fine, nothing more than fluid changes. IMO it was a better system than my Ram has.

Yeah that's selec-trac, which has a full mesh center differential in its full time/AWD mode. WJ's with Quadra-Drive had the NV247 which only has 2 transfer case positions. Low range which is a locked center coupling + gear reduction and "all time" which is their automatic 4wd setting. In "All time" the transmission output is locked to the rear output shaft as in RWD but when a speed difference exists between the front and rear driveshafts it would operate a gear pump that applies pressure to a clutch pack and progressively locks the front output shaft to the rear one. That meant that torque would not be delivered to the front axle until after slip occurred at the rear; there is no way to make it proactively send torque to the front as there are no electronics governing the split.

 

[ramffml]

Not picking on you in particular but I see this mentioned a lot and I don't have first hand ownership experience with the auto transfer case in Ram 1500's specifically - but I do have extensive first hand experience with other applications of BW's TOD system and other auto-4WD on vehicles (Isuzu, Jeep, Ford) and on all of those it is programmed to engage the aux secondary axle briefly on any launch because it can't know whether it's on a slippery surface until slip occurs, so it hedges the bets by just starting off in 4wd from every stop and from any application of additional throttle at higher speeds. You can even watch the little TOD engagement indicators light up on Isuzu's dashboard to illustrate how much it's engaging the front axle - which it will do even if you're going 50mph and mash the pedal. On my Jeep which is natively front wheel drive with an auto-4wd engagement of the rear axle it does the same thing and with JSCAN software on a phone I can watch it display % engagement in real time, it always pulses the clutch when throttle is applied from a stop or while under way.

What I'm getting at here is that other applications of this auto-4wd scheme are proactive with engaging the second axle, are we sure that the Ram application is not?

On WJ's with Quadra-Drive the front axle engagement is mechanical and completely reactive so on those it really is necessary to slip first before the front axle comes in. But that's because it needs a difference in driveshaft speed to pump oil behind the clutch engage piston... that's a world of difference from electronic control.

Definitely proactive. I back my trailer up a slight hill on wet grass quite often. Instant slippage in 2wd. Stop, put the truck in 4 auto, and then backup. Not even a hint of slippage. Whatever it is doing, it is the "right thing".

 

[ramffml]

I realize it is 4wd, but you might want to consider a set of pre-mounted snows for your Camry. I know people will howl, but from my experience in Upstate NY (last winter there was just over 300 inches of snow) the truck is great at getting going but not as good steering and stopping. Wider tires means more rubber packing down on snow and more weight naturally takes longer to stop, it is all physics. I always had a FWD car with 4 snows and left my truck garaged (saved on rust) and never got stuck once while averaging about125k miles a year. Doing the car with snows will let you get a less aggressive (quieter) tire for the truck. Congratulations on the new truck, and good luck.

A car with snow tires is better than without snow tires. And possibly better than a truck without snow tires. But, I'll take a truck with snow tires any day. 4WD/auto + limited slip + extra clearance are all huge advantages of a truck. Weight can be an enemy, but it can also be momentum to plow through (low speeds obviously!!) some drifts in a long driveway or a rough road.

I dunno, maybe just me, but there was literally no comparison in my winter driving when I switched from my car to my Jeep Grand Cherokee and now my Ram. Plus a truck is just nicer all around to drive in and to help pull people out if needed etc. Can pack more gear, and take more abuse when getting unstuck too.