talk about depreciation

[1500ram12]

Because we need the capability of a 2500 but don't need the pricetag that comes with the clatter-6... because it's OUR MONEY. I for one don't like to spend 6-8,000 on an option I don't need.

Exactly. I've owned a 1 ton dually and a 3/4 ton diesel. My towing and commute doesn't warrant the extra cost of the diesel. But still want the payload and towing abilities of a 2500.

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[xrsman]

Because we need the capability of a 2500 but don't need the pricetag that comes with the clatter-6... because it's OUR MONEY. I for one don't like to spend 6-8,000 on an option I don't need.

My cousin bought the 6.4 over the diesel and said it was the biggest mistake he's made. The truck has 1200 kms on it. His mileage on that truck is way worse than on his dad's 2012 cummins! Plus the diesel has a much higher resale value. In Canada guys easily get 8-10K more for a diesel truck over the equivalent gas.

I'm not engine bashing, but I really just don't see how it makes sense.

It's too bad the warranty doesnt transfer if you buy in another country. You Americans would save an extra 39% on the trucks if you bought up here!

For example the same truck we would pay 50K for, you'd only pay 30,500 US for up here with the dollar exchange.

Hell if I were you guys I'd do it anyway! That's a lot of money saved for warranty work.

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[drittal]

My cousin bought the 6.4 over the diesel and said it was the biggest mistake he's made. The truck has 1200 kms on it. His mileage on that truck is way worse than on his dad's 2012 cummins! Plus the diesel has a much higher resale value. In Canada guys easily get 8-10K more for a diesel truck over the equivalent gas.

Hell if I were you guys I'd do it anyway! That's a lot of money saved for warranty work.

1)I can buy a lot of gas for $8,000, and my 6.4 only gets about 1mpg less than my 2012 f150 ecoboost.

2) if I bought a 2500 diesel I might as well have stayed in a half ton as it only has 2100-2200 lb payload. Doesn't add up when your family and gear weighs 700lbs and the empty tongue weight on your camper is over 1600lbs.

3) what the hell does resale matter on a diesel if you buy one because it will 'last forever'.

4) I would not own a diesel without warranty. Through past experience with my 7.3 powerstroke and my father's old 24V and his current 2012 6.7l... no flipping way. The long block may last 500k+ but everything bolted to or around it only lasts as long as in any other passenger vehicle.

5) why pay the extra for the diesel, pay extra for maintenance, pay for DEF, pay for Fuel additives(especially critical for our winters), diesel is 20 cents more per gallon atm,... when I only tow occasionally, use the vehicle as a daily driver in small town rural america, live closer to Canada than the nearest starbucks, where we have week long stretches of -25f lows and highs in the -teens????

 

[xrsman]

1)I can buy a lot of gas for $8,000, and my 6.4 only gets about 1mpg less than my 2012 f150 ecoboost.

2) if I bought a 2500 diesel I might as well have stayed in a half ton as it only has 2100-2200 lb payload. Doesn't add up when your family and gear weighs 700lbs and the empty tongue weight on your camper is over 1600lbs.

3) what the hell does resale matter on a diesel if you buy one because it will 'last forever'.

4) I would not own a diesel without warranty. Through past experience with my 7.3 powerstroke and my father's old 24V and his current 2012 6.7l... no flipping way. The long block may last 500k+ but everything bolted to or around it only lasts as long as in any other passenger vehicle.

1) Unfortunately for my cousin the difference in fuel economy between his dad's cummins and his 6.4 is 7-8 mpg. (10-11 vs 18)

Let's do some math:

Over 120,000 kms the 6.4 would cost 25,000 in fuel.

Diesel is cheaper in my area but for the sake for argument I'll use the same fuel price for it.

Over 120,000 kms the Cummins would use 15,000 in fuel. That pays for your engine right there.

2) Just go to a 1 ton to get more payload. Put airbags in the back to soften the ride up, problem solved.

3) Why would you keep a diesel any longer than a gas? Personally it doesn't matter, every 3 or 4 years I'd sell and buy new.

4) Well neither my uncle with his 2012 cummins, or my father with the past 3 diesel trucks (Ford 6.0, 6.4, and 6.7) have had any major engine problems that would have required expensive warranty work. Maybe your dad is just unlucky? Or maybe my family has just been lucky with their trucks.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I just don't see how it makes sense. I'm sure you love it and it suits your needs, but the argument that the diesel is too expensive and you'll save money with a gas is completely incorrect.

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[drittal]

Well you cousins 6.4 is getting horrible mileage.

My father's 2012 3500 drw, deleted and tuned. He is proud when he gets 17 empty at 70. My truck will get 18 at 70.

Pulling a 6x12 enclosed trailer he gets 14, I get 12.

Pulling a Stryker 2912 he gets 9-10, I get 8.

Currently averaging 13.4 all town, cold weather and warm up idle time.

My 7.3 the injectors were failing at $380 a piece starting at 150k. 3 bad glow plugs found at first injector replacement. father 24v had his transmission rebuilt 2x, HPP once, low pressure pump once. (Or about $10k out of pocket) My father in law early Duramax had to replace all 8 injectors before 130k. Father in laws boss just had the HPP on his 6.7 powerstroke go and wipe out the entire fuel system. Off warranty. $10,000.

Personally Ill take a gasser as a grocery getter taking a couple bucks out of my pocket every time I fill up vs an oil burner failing me once and costing me thousands until I am on the road a lot or towing heavy.

***oh, I forgot my buddy Stacy who spent a lot of money bullet proofing his 6.0 to have it crack a piston anyway. Can you say new motor off warranty? He did the swap himself to save thousands.

 

[drittal]

2) Just go to a 1 ton to get more payload. Put airbags in the back to soften the ride up, problem solved.

So pay a lot more for diesel, pay more for 3500, pay more for airbags... gotcha.

But hey, its not your money, right?

 

[xrsman]

So pay a lot more for diesel, pay more for 3500, pay more for airbags... gotcha.

Think what you want dude...I really could care less.

You WILL get your money out of a diesel when you sell it. It's only $1300 more for a 3500 and airbags.

Fuelly numbers:

Diesel mileage: 16.2 mpg average

120,000 kms fuel cost: 17,399

6.4 hemi mileage: 12.7 mpg average

120,000 kms fuel cost: 22,199

So it looks as though my cousins truck isn't getting terrible mileage, only 1-2 mpg worse than the average for that engine. Maybe when it breaks in it'll come up that 1-2 mpg to match what everyone else gets with those trucks.

This means the average user would save $5100 over the course of the lifetime with the diesel truck. These are unbiased fuelly numbers, you can't argue with them. Maybe diesel costs a lot more where you're from narrowing this gap, I don't know. I'm just providing the facts.

I'm glad you like your truck. Financially when keeping a vehicle 3-4 years, the diesel works out to be the better option.



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[drittal]

So...
Cummins. 65000
3500 + airbags. 1300
Fuel cost. -5100

Still $2700 behind. Stillnhabent factoed maintenance costs, def, and winter fuel additives. Resale will really only matter if going gas to diesel, otherwise it's almost a wash.

 

[drittal]

Here's a question, you have a 2014 1500.

Why didn't you buy a 2500 diesel and bag it to get a better ride?

 

[xrsman]

Here's a question, you have a 2014 1500.

Why didn't you buy a 2500 diesel and bag it to get a better ride?

I don't like the look of the Ram 2500's and I don't tow heavy enough loads to warrant a 2500. Plus my truck gets better mileage than a 2500 does.

Kind of a dumb question don't you think?

So...
Cummins. 65000
3500 + airbags. 1300
Fuel cost. -5100

Still $2700 behind. Stillnhabent factoed maintenance costs, def, and winter fuel additives. Resale will really only matter if going gas to diesel, otherwise it's almost a wash.

DEF costs nothing in the grand scheme of things. $40 or less every 15,000 kms. Diesels also require oil changes less frequently than gas trucks do. With these modern Diesels and new winter fuel you don't need to put in fuel additives.

$2700 for a much more powerful, quicker, more fuel efficient truck is a tiny cost to pay.

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[mtofell]

The whole diesel vs. gas thing just gets beat to death on RV forums. 8 pages of arguing and everyone is pretty much where they started. In the end it's a personal choice and it really depends on what you need the truck to do.

That being said, anyone saying the 2500 gas truck has "no purpose" I don't agree with. It fills a HUGE void between maxed out 1/2 tons with 1000# of payload and diesels meant to tow 10,000# or more. My TT is 8500# loaded which is outside of 1/2 territory but sure doesn't justify a diesel.

98% of my miles are spent commuting with some light tools and a ladder in the bed. I don't micro manage my MPGs but seem to get around 13-14 with mixed hwy/city driving. Winter fuel blend (10% ethanol here in Oregon) and stop/go driving take a HUGE toll on mileage for this truck. I'm seeing more like 12 this time of year.

The thing that really amazes me is that a gas 3/4 truck with a huge powerful V8 can see MPGs like the Hemi does. Remember the big gas engines of a decade ago (Ford/Dodge V10, Chevy 8.1 liter)? Those were lucky to see much more than 1/2 what the modern ones get.

 

[Thatdude596]

buying a 2500 to me with all **** aside is like buying a mustang v6 edition.....you just don't do it... buy a 1500 and add airbags if you need more towing cap


our hemi will pull a 37 ft gooseneck camper across the usa no problem with air bags....pulls pontoon n ski boats just fine....pulls another truck no problem....I think some of you are pulling your own ****

 

[ExpressRules]

....I think some of you are pulling your own ****

Ohhhhhh My.

 

[Limeybastard]

buying a 2500 to me with all **** aside is like buying a mustang v6 edition.....you just don't do it... buy a 1500 and add airbags if you need more towing cap


our hemi will pull a 37 ft gooseneck camper across the usa no problem with air bags....pulls pontoon n ski boats just fine....pulls another truck no problem....I think some of you are pulling your own ****

Liked for entertainment purposes.

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[Padilen]

Nope, innie not outie [emoji56]

 

[1500ram12]

buying a 2500 to me with all **** aside is like buying a mustang v6 edition.....you just don't do it... buy a 1500 and add airbags if you need more towing cap


our hemi will pull a 37 ft gooseneck camper across the usa no problem with air bags....pulls pontoon n ski boats just fine....pulls another truck no problem....I think some of you are pulling your own ****

If you want to give me the extra 8k for a diesel engine, I'll trade mine in right now to make you happy. Then when you blow your Trans up towing your 37'er I'll honk as I drive by in my nice new Cummins.

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[drittal]

I don't like the look of the Ram 2500's and I don't tow heavy enough loads to warrant a 2500. Plus my truck gets better mileage than a 2500 does.

Kind of a dumb question don't you think

Not dumb at all. Some of us tow enough to warrant a 2500, but not heavy enough to warrant a diesel.

I'm willing to bet a 2500 6.7 gets as good or better mileage empty as a 1500 hemi.

You also declined to get a EcoDiesel when it would get you 20-30% better mileage.

DEF costs nothing in the grand scheme of things. $40 or less every 15,000 kms. Diesels also require oil changes less frequently than gas trucks do. With these modern Diesels and new winter fuel you don't need to put in fuel additives.

$2700 for a much more powerful, quicker, more fuel efficient truck is a tiny cost to pay.

$40 per 15,000kms adds to the price difference. So does fuel filters.

The part about winter fuel??? That makes me laugh. Maybe in Canada where diesel is much better quality. In the States there is very little control. When I delivered bulk Exxon fuel I either mixed the 60/40 blend when I was loading or adding the additive to the #2 in the ground. Some of these bigger stations like Holiday blend their fuel for lower pour points as the winter progresses. That's nice of them...until the -40 cold snap in the first week of November like in 2014 and pickups and semi's are gelled up all over. The other really important reason to use additive is to remove water. Your fuel might be protected from gelling, but that water from condensation in the 30yrs old in ground tanks isnt protected from freezing or causing other troubles while a good additive will protect you from freezing a fuel line and let the water pass through your system without problems. So now add in a good additive like Stanadyne 4-5months a year at the minimum to cost difference. Increased idle time to warm the motor before a taking off = lower fuel economy especially for a daily driver with a 3 mile commute.

More powerful? Stock 410hp vs 385. Nope. Quicker? 16.8 @86mph(2500srw 4.10) vs 17.3 @83 (3500drw 3.73). Not quite apples to apples, but both tested same day at same track. The 3500 had to move a little more weight being drw, but had 3.73 where the SRW diesels only get 3.42.

 

[Thatdude596]

If you want to give me the extra 8k for a diesel engine, I'll trade mine in right now to make you happy. Then when you blow your Trans up towing your 37'er I'll honk as I drive by in my nice new Cummins.

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just like everyone I see blowing their trans up rolling 37 to 40 inch tires too...keep pulling

 

[1500ram12]

I use to hate the idea of a gasser in a 2500/3500's (still not sold on the idea of the 3500's having them) but as I stated before I don't need a diesel right now. I traded in a 2010 2500 6.7L for my 2015 2500 6.4L. I'm getting the same mpg as my diesel and saving a few bucks at the pump. And so far it does everything my 6.7L did. When I decided to get rid of this truck will the resale be lower than a diesel equipped truck, of course. But I also paid less. So it's a wash.

Now, do you have a brake controller on your truck? Have you upgraded your brakes to compensate for the max load you tow?

Just because you can tow something doesn't mean you should.

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[xrsman]

Not dumb at all. Some of us tow enough to warrant a 2500, but not heavy enough to warrant a diesel.

I'm willing to bet a 2500 6.7 gets as good or better mileage empty as a 1500 hemi.

You also declined to get a EcoDiesel when it would get you 20-30% better mileage.




$40 per 15,000kms adds to the price difference. So does fuel filters.

The part about winter fuel??? That makes me laugh. Maybe in Canada where diesel is much better quality. In the States there is very little control. When I delivered bulk Exxon fuel I either mixed the 60/40 blend when I was loading or adding the additive to the #2 in the ground. Some of these bigger stations like Holiday blend their fuel for lower pour points as the winter progresses. That's nice of them...until the -40 cold snap in the first week of November like in 2014 and pickups and semi's are gelled up all over. The other really important reason to use additive is to remove water. Your fuel might be protected from gelling, but that water from condensation in the 30yrs old in ground tanks isnt protected from freezing or causing other troubles while a good additive will protect you from freezing a fuel line and let the water pass through your system without problems. So now add in a good additive like Stanadyne 4-5months a year at the minimum to cost difference. Increased idle time to warm the motor before a taking off = lower fuel economy especially for a daily driver with a 3 mile commute.

More powerful? Stock 410hp vs 385. Nope. Quicker? 16.8 @86mph(2500srw 4.10) vs 17.3 @83 (3500drw 3.73). Not quite apples to apples, but both tested same day at same track. The 3500 had to move a little more weight being drw, but had 3.73 where the SRW diesels only get 3.42.

It was a dumb question because you asked why I didn't get a 2500 and bag it to get a better ride rather than buy a 2500...

A 6.7 diesel does not get better mileage than a 1500 hemi. Not even when deleted..

Yes I didn't buy an ecodiesel, they just came out and I decided that waiting a few years to see if they had any issues would be the smart thing to do. Besides, I wanted to build a 1500 hemi, thought it would be fun. I enjoy my truck, next one will be an ecodiesel though.

As for power, HP means nothing, torque is what makes you move. Yes the Cummins is much more powerful.

It's also quicker. I raced a deleted cummins and lost before I lifted my truck. I raced a 15 2500 6.4 and won. That's with my 35's.

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