Who's Done the Math on a Gas PW vs Cummins?

[corneileous]

It’s only suspension differences between a pw and hd2500. I bet you can dang sure put a good suspension, lockers and winch on a ctd oh and something for that deep oil pan lol and it’d be every bit as capable as a “PW” I have a cclb and have only done a thuren kit and it’s more than capable. I add in a front locker and it’s the same thing essentially. A Cummins off-roading would be a huge fun factor imo but once you’ve done all that. The “Cummins” tow rating you had is gone. Soooo tow or play? Can’t do all but you can have a well rounded off-road rig. Which I believe you can buy a pw or build a pw how you’d want it. That’s all the fun whatever it is go get dirty

According to this, it’s still very specific on why the PW still isn’t offered with a Cummins- you guessed it, because it would hamper the truck’s off-road capability. Not saying a diesel pickup can’t be an off-roader but this is the head of Ram’s standpoint.


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[22hemi13]

According to this, it’s still very specific on why the PW still isn’t offered with a Cummins- you guessed it, because it would hamper the truck’s off-road capability. Not saying a diesel pickup can’t be an off-roader but this is the head of Ram’s standpoint.


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Yeah. No room for winch, heavy and one big ole oil pan. There was one sweet cummins at pwim that is more than capable.ram just wont build it lol

 

[corneileous]

Yeah. No room for winch, heavy and one big ole oil pan. There was one sweet cummins at pwim that is more than capable.ram just wont build it lol

That winch is a staple to the PW and unfortunately the space needed for the intercooler is taken up by that big 12,000lb winch. The 392 is 500 pounds lighter.


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[22hemi13]

That winch is a staple to the PW and unfortunately the space needed for the intercooler is taken up by that big 12,000lb winch. The 392 is 500 pounds lighter.


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Yes. That’s exactly why they’ll never build it...... gotta build your own. I’m happy wit my cclb with the 5.7 in it. If only I can ever get my front locker in

 

[Tim Garceau]

Revving to a whopping 3000 rpm through muddy terrain or having to creep up or down rocky paths with an extra 300 lbs in the nose doesn’t sound exhilarating to me either.

You might look and sound capable on paper, but weight and diesel never equate to finding unexplored territory off-road.

 

[3TV]

Here was my Prospector

One of the biggest nuisance factors on my 2016 Prospector with a Cummins engine was the off idle torque. In low range you pretty much could not stop without shifting the transmission into neutral. I had a 3500 mega cab, so it was big enough that the extra weight wasn't that noticeable, over the very noticeable sheer size of that truck. My smaller and relatively more nimble Power Wagon without the mega cab and without the 3" lift, but still with 37" tires is much easier to maneuver off road, and feels better to drive off road.

 

[rule18]

I average 11mpg unloaded in the Rockies. Towing I get 8. I do have 35s and some extra skid protection.

My diesel did about 16 daily and 12 towing. I also tow a 10k trainer and the PW has zero issues with it, just thirsty.

The difference is not in the towing capacity (although it is, a bit). As others have mentioned, the PW has a different suspension and tire rating so there's not an apples to apples payload comparison to be made.

 

[corneileous]

Would seem to me that if it’s fuel mileage comparisons to be made, the PW probably isn’t a good candidate for that in the first place because of the 4:10 gears it has. Sure, you can probably get a regular 2500 Hemi with 4:10 gears but as opposed to what’s primarily out there available, the PW is probably better left out.


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[dhay13]

Would seem to me that if it’s fuel mileage comparisons to be made, the PW probably isn’t a good candidate for that in the first place because of the 4:10 gears it has. Sure, you can probably get a regular 2500 Hemi with 4:10 gears but as opposed to what’s primarily out there available, the PW is probably better left out.


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My 2018 6.4 has 4.10's. Definitely quite a few of them out there

 

[WY-Dave]

The evic reading doesn't mean much. Hand calculate and you will be disappointed. I researched extensively the diesel vs. gas prior to buying my 2014 6.4 With the added cost of the option and gas price higher it would have taken a long time to pay for the diesel. I have towed 50,000+ miles now and have no regrets. 8000# trailer and another 1500 in the bed, over all terrain, 9.3 MPG hand calculated. If I was towing 10K I would have went diesel. Of course if you just want a diesel there's nothing wrong with that either.

In the past I did hand calc, using the exact same pump self shutting off on the first click (trying to eliminate variables) after 2 identical 212 mile road trips (Cheyenne to Denver airport) and the EVIC was only off by .8. I have seen people skew their hand results by not filling the same on the start and the finish of the trip. By just adding one gal on the fill up over the start fillup, on a 200 mile trip can make you loose 1 mpg (200m/15g=13.3mpg vs 200/16=12.5) even worse on a longer trip (400/15=26.7 vs 400/16=25). Unless you can guarantee the exact amount of fuel for a given mileage, it is a SWAG.

You are absolutely correct stating the cost of the CTD and higher fuel cost will make the CTD at a disadvantage. But, I wonder what the CTD would get for mpg with your 9500# load.

 

[Potvinsux]

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

I know the payload and towing is significantly lower on the PW but don't need it to be any higher with what I tow or carry.

I basically need something that can handle off road situations, and more importantly, deep snow at times. That's why I asked about the PW, however, a CD 2500 intrigued me since I know how dependable and highly regarded it is plus possible better mpg on highway.

As others have said, I don't think a non PW is as capable for what I would need it for. Some mentioned a Prospector, however, not having adaptive cruise control is a deal breaker for me (I know, I know but I truly use it everyday).

I think for what it has, lower price and capabilities, the PW may be what I need.

And the only thing I don't like about the PW is the front bench seat. Really wish I could get a center console but understand the 4wd transfer case lever is there.

 

[corneileous]

My 2018 6.4 has 4.10's. Definitely quite a few of them out there

I don’t doubt that there isn’t, I’m just saying that since the PW is only available with the 4:10’s, regular 2500’s with the 6.4 could either be or not be made with 4:10’s.


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[corneileous]

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

I know the payload and towing is significantly lower on the PW but don't need it to be any higher with what I tow or carry.

I basically need something that can handle off road situations, and more importantly, deep snow at times. That's why I asked about the PW, however, a CD 2500 intrigued me since I know how dependable and highly regarded it is plus possible better mpg on highway.

As others have said, I don't think a non PW is as capable for what I would need it for. Some mentioned a Prospector, however, not having adaptive cruise control is a deal breaker for me (I know, I know but I truly use it everyday).

I think for what it has, lower price and capabilities, the PW may be what I need.

And the only thing I don't like about the PW is the front bench seat. Really wish I could get a center console but understand the 4wd transfer case lever is there.

But do you need all that extra stuff that the PW has, though? Sure, that winch would be nice if you got stuck but you can put one of those on any truck. For deep snow, I wouldn’t think you’d need front and rear locking diffs for that- or the sway bar disconnects.

Seems to me a regular Ram 2500 Hemi or CTD fixed up how you want it, would be the better deal.


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[22hemi13]

But do you need all that extra stuff that the PW has, though? Sure, that winch would be nice if you got stuck but you can put one of those on any truck. For deep snow, I wouldn’t think you’d need front and rear locking diffs for that- or the sway bar disconnects.

Seems to me a regular Ram 2500 Hemi or CTD fixed up how you want it, would be the better deal.


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That’s What I was thinking. Get you the truck you want and throw a thuren suspension on it and new tires.

 

[corneileous]

Oh and not to mention, you can have your floor console too.


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[olyelr]

The one think I dont like about the pw is the nannies they put in to use the upgrades they come with. Can only use the lockers in 4low, and it is at times a pure miracle to get the damn things to lock up quicker than a few minutes due to all the restraints they put on the system. And while I have not had issues with the winch, I have read plenty of stories online of winch's quitting for no apparent reason - like it will power out, but not in (typically the thermal cutoff causing the issue, even though the winch is not hot at all).

Power wagons are cool as ****, considering they are straight from the factory loaded up for off road all with a full warranty. However, when you start modifying trucks, warranties typically can go right out the window (good luck getting a new trans installed and paid for when you drag the truck in on 37’s lol).

At right around $7000 for the pw package, you can make quite a bit of your own personal upgrades to a different truck for that kind of money.

 

[corneileous]

The one think I dont like about the pw is the nannies they put in to use the upgrades they come with. Can only use the lockers in 4low, and it is at times a pure miracle to get the damn things to lock up quicker than a few minutes due to all the restraints they put on the system. And while I have not had issues with the winch, I have read plenty of stories online of winch's quitting for no apparent reason - like it will power out, but not in (typically the thermal cutoff causing the issue, even though the winch is not hot at all).

Power wagons are cool as ****, considering they are straight from the factory loaded up for off road all with a full warranty. However, when you start modifying trucks, warranties typically can go right out the window (good luck getting a new trans installed and paid for when you drag the truck in on 37’s lol).

At right around $7000 for the pw package, you can make quite a bit of your own personal upgrades to a different truck for that kind of money.

I figured there’d be quite the restraints with a factory, full-warrantied production off-road truck. Sure, it sounds badass but in order for the consumer to use that truck how it should be and was meant to be used, there’d be no way in hell they could warranty that.

It’s just like for example, the AWD transfer case that’s available in the 1500’s; gimmie one good goshdamn reason why they absolutely could not make that transfer case to where it would fully lock up and stay locked up in 4-LO, or even in “4-Lock” like they call it on switch...lol. They probably made it that way on purpose to cut down on warranty claims or some ****.


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[sandawilliams]

In the past I did hand calc, using the exact same pump self shutting off on the first click (trying to eliminate variables) after 2 identical 212 mile road trips (Cheyenne to Denver airport) and the EVIC was only off by .8. I have seen people skew their hand results by not filling the same on the start and the finish of the trip. By just adding one gal on the fill up over the start fillup, on a 200 mile trip can make you loose 1 mpg (200m/15g=13.3mpg vs 200/16=12.5) even worse on a longer trip (400/15=26.7 vs 400/16=25). Unless you can guarantee the exact amount of fuel for a given mileage, it is a SWAG.

You are absolutely correct stating the cost of the CTD and higher fuel cost will make the CTD at a disadvantage. But, I wonder what the CTD would get for mpg with your 9500# load.

My friends with the cummins report around 12 mpg with the same load. They do go up the mountain faster than I but I can usually run close to the speed limit until the sharp turns.

 

[Potvinsux]

But do you need all that extra stuff that the PW has, though? Sure, that winch would be nice if you got stuck but you can put one of those on any truck. For deep snow, I wouldn’t think you’d need front and rear locking diffs for that- or the sway bar disconnects.

Seems to me a regular Ram 2500 Hemi or CTD fixed up how you want it, would be the better deal.


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So locking diffs wouldn't help with snow??

 

[corneileous]

So locking diffs wouldn't help with snow??

I never said they wouldn’t, I just said they wouldn’t be absolutely necessary. I good set of chains would probably be the best for punching though deep snow.

And as another member said, those locking diffs supposedly only work in 4-Lo. I would think wheel speed making momentum is what you’d want so in that case, those locking diffs would be useless.


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