Dealer says 5 years/75k miles for 8 speed fluid swap?

[Tim Garceau]

Hmm, so going back a few posts, let's say to make it simple, I pull the pan myself and let's say I measured the exact amount that came out, then jacking up rear of the truck i added exactly what came out- bit back in..would I still have to do the process of going threw all the gears and what not..not that I would get in the truck and floor it lol...i i just mean if you put in what you take out it should be the correct level? Or am I missing something...just curious

This is what I plan to do to get rid of the factory gear mesh that’s gunked onto the magnets. If the fill chamber allows the amount oil lost in the pan it should be a simple drop/replace pan/top off fluid but I’m betting it’ll need to be manipulated over.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been a while since I read the maintenance procedure.

 

[PoMansRam]

The V6 essentially has the same trans. Only difference is that the Hemi one is made by ZF, Pentastar by FCA. Why, who knows.

I've seen this statement a few times now. Where is this coming from? The hemi 1500 uses the 8HP70 and the pentastar uses the 8HP45. They're both ZF made transmissions. The 45 is used in other FCA applications and other brands use it too.

Going back on topic (sorry!), like said above, there is absolutely no way you'll get a fluid change wrong by draining it cold, measuring the amount that drained out and refill by the same amount.

Yes, you are relying on the factory level as being correct, but if you have zero leakage and the unit has been perfect, well.. that level is good enough for me. My OCD would kick in and I'd have to go a step further with a proper level check, but you'd survive without it.

Drain/fill on an 8HP45 in a pentastar Ram 1500 looks like a piece of cake too as there is no exhaust in the way of the pan or drain plug like there is on the hemi rams.

 

[QwikKota]

Hmm, so going back a few posts, let's say to make it simple, I pull the pan myself and let's say I measured the exact amount that came out, then jacking up rear of the truck i added exactly what came out- bit back in..would I still have to do the process of going threw all the gears and what not..not that I would get in the truck and floor it lol...i i just mean if you put in what you take out it should be the correct level? Or am I missing something...just curious

I had this same argument on the 4Runner forum. They all told me I was doing it wrong when I drained 4 quarts out and put back in the exact same amount without doing the temp check and then refill while running, etc. That is a pain and dangerous. The damn cats are right next to the fill plug on my wife's truck. It has been several thousand miles since I did that on it's sealed tranny and no issues.

On the Ram, is there a way to drain out fluid without removing the pan? I believe the drain plug is non-reusable. I would prefer to drain some fluid out of a cooler line or something and not worry or deal with pan replacement. The metal on those magnets is not going to just fall off some day. Sure, in 120k miles it would be best to put in a new pan so that fully exposed magnets are present but initial wear from break in is going to be most of the deposits.

 

[QwikKota]

I've seen this statement a few times now. Where is this coming from? The hemi 1500 uses the 8HP70 and the pentastar uses the 8HP45. They're both ZF made transmissions. The 45 is used in other FCA applications and other brands use it too.

Going back on topic (sorry!), like said above, there is absolutely no way you'll get a fluid change wrong by draining it cold, measuring the amount that drained out and refill by the same amount.

Yes, you are relying on the factory level as being correct, but if you have zero leakage and the unit has been perfect, well.. that level is good enough for me. My OCD would kick in and I'd have to go a step further with a proper level check, but you'd survive without it.

Drain/fill on an 8HP45 in a pentastar Ram 1500 looks like a piece of cake too as there is no exhaust in the way of the pan or drain plug like there is on the hemi rams.

AFAIK all Chrysler 8 speeds are now made in Kokomo, IN at their "new" plant. They licensed the design from ZF but FCA owns the factory and manufactures the trannies.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Do any aftermarket pans have a built in re-usable drain plug? I honestly haven’t looked myself.

My last truck, a Nissan Frontier, that’s all I ever did. Drain and fill back to pinky above bottom edge of fill hole.

Never had any issues in 130k.

Did same with both differentials and transfer case as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PoMansRam]

I'm only at ~39K miles on my 2017 Ram 1500 pentastar and haven't grown the stones to try the drain plug on the 8HP45's pan yet.

Based on what I've seen online in terms of videos and parts, the drain plug on this plastic transmission pan is not a single time use thing. It can be reused. There's been a few posts on this.

Since an exhaust pipe is right below the drain plug on hemi powered Ram 8spds, everybody seems to ignore the plug.

 

[Elkman]

Ram recommends changing the ATF at 120,000 miles. No surprise that the dealer scammed the sucker who did not bother to read the manual. With every new vehicle I buy I take the time to put together a simple cheat sheet that shows at each mileage milestone what maintenance is recommended.

With my diesel truck and it Allison transmission the change interval is every 2 years or 50,000 miles with TES389 fluid or every 4 years and 150,000 miles with TES295 fluid. I use the Castrol TES295 as it means fewer trips to the Allison dealer and less labor cost over time.

I don't know how the guy who paid the extra $350 to the dealer values his time but I would take an hour to put together a maintenance schedule to save myself that amount of money.

Nearly every time I take my diesel truck into the dealer they try to get me to prematurely change something as they want to make more sales and more profits. The majority of the profits dealers take in are from the sales of parts and the sales of service.

I cannot get the best possible motor oil or the best possible ATF from the dealers and so I go elsewhere to protect my investment in my vehicles.

 

[QwikKota]

Ram recommends changing the ATF at 120,000 miles. No surprise that the dealer scammed the sucker who did not bother to read the manual. With every new vehicle I buy I take the time to put together a simple cheat sheet that shows at each mileage milestone what maintenance is recommended.

With my diesel truck and it Allison transmission the change interval is every 2 years or 50,000 miles with TES389 fluid or every 4 years and 150,000 miles with TES295 fluid. I use the Castrol TES295 as it means fewer trips to the Allison dealer and less labor cost over time.

I don't know how the guy who paid the extra $350 to the dealer values his time but I would take an hour to put together a maintenance schedule to save myself that amount of money.

Nearly every time I take my diesel truck into the dealer they try to get me to prematurely change something as they want to make more sales and more profits. The majority of the profits dealers take in are from the sales of parts and the sales of service.

I cannot get the best possible motor oil or the best possible ATF from the dealers and so I go elsewhere to protect my investment in my vehicles.

The manual does not state a mileage at all, at least not for my 2015. The 5th gen Ram may be different. The older trucks it states "lifetime".

My friend changes his own oil and put a poked and stroked 408 in his '69 Dart by himself but the dealer has him scared due to the lifetime warranty.

ETA: The 2019 manual says the same thing

"Fluid And Filter Changes Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the life of the vehicle. Routine fluid and filter changes are not required. However, change the fluid and filter if the fluid becomes contaminated (with water, etc.), or if the transmission is disassembled for any reason."

 

[chrisbh17]

Ram recommends changing the ATF at 120,000 miles. No surprise that the dealer scammed the sucker who did not bother to read the manual. With every new vehicle I buy I take the time to put together a simple cheat sheet that shows at each mileage milestone what maintenance is recommended.

With my diesel truck and it Allison transmission the change interval is every 2 years or 50,000 miles with TES389 fluid or every 4 years and 150,000 miles with TES295 fluid. I use the Castrol TES295 as it means fewer trips to the Allison dealer and less labor cost over time.

I don't know how the guy who paid the extra $350 to the dealer values his time but I would take an hour to put together a maintenance schedule to save myself that amount of money.

Nearly every time I take my diesel truck into the dealer they try to get me to prematurely change something as they want to make more sales and more profits. The majority of the profits dealers take in are from the sales of parts and the sales of service.

I cannot get the best possible motor oil or the best possible ATF from the dealers and so I go elsewhere to protect my investment in my vehicles.

Only for the 6 speed auto, not the 8 speed.

They maintain its a lifetime fluid. Again, the rub is in "who's lifetime?"

RAM wants to sell you more vehicles (or at least charge you to fix your current), you want to keep your vehicle running as long as possible without needing replacement or expensive fixes.

IMHO barring having a MaxCare warranty, I would change the fluid in an 8 speed trans once its out of powertrain warranty. WITH having MaxCare makes it a tough call...and since I have MaxCare, I have a tough call.

 

[QwikKota]

I have MaxCare as well and I just purchased 6 quarts of fluid off eBay. There is one guy selling them around $18.75 per quart, 4 quart lots. Cheapest I can see. Now that I realize the tranny might last a long time before it gives up the ghost, most likely the replacement will cost more than the value of my truck. That's why I am going to change mine at some point. TBD...

 

[chrisbh17]

Honestly if we really think drain and refill exact same amount is do-able, just do that every 10K miles or so. After 60K miles you should have about one complete change.

The only other real thing you would want is the pan off to clean out or replace completely (but then a dealer might be able to tell it was done and void MaxCare)

 

[16RamHemi]

imo you guys are overlooking the replacement of the filter. the stock pan has the filter built in. so you need to replace the pan. atp has a compatable pan with replaceable filter for around 115 in rockauto. replaceable filter is aroumd 45 or 50 if i recall. i replaced 4 quarts with the pan drop and replacement pan/filter. one more fluid drain and refill in 5k miles or so and i should be good for a while.

 

[Sherman Bird]

WOW! A lot of chatter about fluid change intervals! I'd like to tender these facts. From there, you can make your own informed decision.

I was formally (factory) trained GM and Ford automatic transmission specialist and did that in dealerships 27 years. One fact is incontrovertible: 95% of the heat that destroys ATF is generated in the torque converter due to frictional shearing of the fluid. This fact alone means that from the VERY first day you begin driving your truck, the fluid is exposed to temperature and pressure extremes that break it down. It is cooled off and sent back to the transmission as the lube circuit for bearings and bushings on all units. Auxiliary coolers make a huge improvement in the life span of the fluid. Severe use turns around and reduces that benefit.

The other facet of ATF is a friction coefficient additive that keeps the clutches and bands from slipping. This is an additive along with anti foam additives and thermal protection additives. All of these additives break down in time and with exposure to use.

I've seen well maintained transmissions go 500,000 miles in severe duty. One that comes to mind was an F-350 dually that was an escort truck for "Wide Loads" on the highway. That man put on million miles on that truck with 2 transmissions. He changed his fluid and filter every 60 thousand miles.

Bottom line: Change the fluid more often (e.g. every 60K miles) and the extended warranty company has no basis in lack of maintenance to deny a repair claim. Go over the limit? They will deny the claim every time!

Also remember that most primary transmission coolers live inside the radiator... so replace the thermostat every 4-5 years along with a cooling system flush and replace the coolant with FACTORY coolant and install a new pressure cap. That helps maintain more than just the transmission.

There are no unicorns in truck land... and anyone who tells you that a fluid which is exposed to extremes of temperature and pressure can last a lifetime also knows where the fountain of youth is!

 

[Shiva]

Hey guys.
I've run fleets of all North American manufactureď vehicles for 30 years before I retired.
Business was auto plant maintenance and construction.
Never had tranny work performed. Never changed fluid. Never had a tranny die. Never asked drivers how much they abused them. Never let yard trucks get to 200k miles before swapping them out with no problems. Never personaly owned a vehicle made here with over 400 k needed work on a tranny even with towing my travel trailer.
Will watch post to see what people will spend with no problems.
More interested why they get problem .

 

[Michoan1011]

Sorry for the horrible quality, this is directly off of the Chrysler technician portal (tech at dealership) only trans fluid change is for 6speeds no fluid change interval required for the 8 speeds

 

[chrisbh17]

Yes, I believe they say no change required. But again, the only people "no change ever required!" benefits is the dealer and/or manufacturer.

Does anyone really think the same trans fluid will be A-OK for 17 years? Because my last truck was 17 years old when I got rid of it.

If FCA wants to give it to me in writing that the trans will last that long, I would be glad to provide everyone a copy for their own records.

The issue right now isnt "when does the manual say to change it" the issue is "whose lifetime do they mean by lifetime fill?"

 

[TomB 1269]

AFAIK all Chrysler 8 speeds are now made in Kokomo, IN at their "new" plant. They licensed the design from ZF but FCA owns the factory and manufactures the trannies.

My truck with a hemi list parts origins and germany is one. The 8 speed in the V6 is made here under license. The 8 speed in the hemi is made in germany beside the mercedes, audis etc.

 

[Shiva]

My last 2 Jeeps were well over 400,000 kilometers when traded in. Never had tranny work or fluid changes.
Wrangler had a transfer case actuator go bad. Electrical circuit board common flaw.
Grand Cherokee diesel did a whack of towing.
In 45 years of driving automatics only got talked into a fluid change once.
I guess it was a weak meme for me.

 

[Pull Ya]

I freely admit that I am OCD. I also believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If the people that built the transmission recommend servicing it at 60k then that is what I am going to do. Some may call it wasting money---I call it peace of mind!
Jay

 

[Tim Garceau]

Awesome, both viewpoints with applications data to back them up. Take the knowledge you gather and make a decision based on your comfort level. If you have a guy you trust, ask his opinion on the matter.

Most modern PM's aren't thrown over the wall like in the past, but that doesn't mean engineers aren't looking out for their service/tech department because they gotta eat too.