The future looks pretty sad.

Native Texan said:

I am thinking more along the line of objects penetrating the fuel compartment such as road debris and also spontaneous combustion along with minor collisions, such as the incidents in Canada at some 60k CAD to repair. There is too much stuff that is dropped on the roadways which could damage l/i batteries especially. Also accidents where the vehicle is pushed up onto awkward objects.

Maybe I need to look into gas pipeline mutual funds also.

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So, we seem to wander between lithium and hydrogen in this back and forth, so let me just sum up independently:

1) Hydrogen: Safe as Mumsy's arms. Something else will kill you before anything hydrogen related does. It's not new tech, it's tried and it works, it's safe, it's just not economically viable for general use in the west.

2) Debating the use of lead acid in a commercially viable EV is like debating the best feed for a commercial unicorn ranch. Neither matters to reality as it exists. Lead acid simply won't do what EV makers need it to do, so any other characteristic is irrelevant.

3) Something may, and probably will eventually, replace lithium. I've no idea what that is or I'd already be putting money on that thing. Watch what rich people do and follow their lead. They will get still get richer faster, but you'll catch bigger crumbs.

Burla said:

how most energy is generated these days and the real reason why localities want people off natural gas. One does wonder why they didnt get their "leader" on board with this since the last "leader" is very pro natural gas. And they sure can use synthetic natural gas from biomass waste. Endless green energy that can be used to fuel those electric cars. And yet one side is so unreasonable nobody has even sniffed this story. You will need a large infrastructure to replace coal or fossil natural gas. Wouldnt that have been a better way to spend all of our tax dollars instead of the joke reasoning that has lead to massive inflation making this strategy damn near impossible? I mean tax payers would you not support this over rebates that most of us couldnt get anyway? Or like 90% of where your tax goes, because synthetic natural gas can be used in combustion engines very responsibly and will be a bridge past fossil fuels, helps your kids and mine, if I had kids.

I appreciate doc wagons comments, we need a good discussion, no ad hominom stuff like other "members". I'd like everyone to consider that, keep this about the issue not the members. I have learned quite a bit, and accept where I was mis informed.

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So here's the hedge on natural gas:

We can (and do) export it. Even if, for what ever reason, the US and Canada wave a magic wand and everyone stops using it here...it travels real well. How's it get to ports? Mostly via pipelines.

...and we're treading a line here, but people who need to win popularity contests often say things that they don't mean, or even that they do but don't have the ability to make good on. US oil production is at record highs. Who cares what *insert whoever* says. Real world says there's enough conflict between powerful entities that nobody is going to get their way fully and at the end of the day *what's cheapest wins* in commodities. People will get to wet their beaks with carbon credits and whatever other games and who (with any pull) really cares more about *insert any topic here* than getting their cut? Idealists are out laying in the roads ******* people off with their signs and chants. "Leaders" cater to them verbally so they'll show up at the polls. Oil gets pumped and used anyway.

I understand how cynical this may sound to some. I also understand that we exist in a world were a brother will murder his brother over who gets to use the good x-box controller so what people will do for millions or billions of dollars and the influence to keep it, private sector or .gov, is not something I would bet on vs 'general concern for mankind' very often. That's why I say catch the biggest crumbs you can.

Burla said:

Read this, synthetic natural gas, they already have a container ship running on it.

You can use this gas to generate the grid or directly in engines, cleanly.

World's first container ship to run on climate-neutral SNG​

In September 2021, the 1,036-teu vessel ElbBLUE became the first container ship worldwide to use climate-neutral SNG on a commercial trip. With the pilot project MAN Energy Solutions and its partners have demonstrated that any LNG-retrofitted ship can run on fuels generated by Power-to-X technology, and even as a mix of fuels.

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Same problem as hydrogen, it's a battery and not a fuel because it has a negative energy balance. You have to put more energy in to the process than you get when you burn it. So where does *that* energy come from? And what's the cost ratio?

I don't know about their carbon capture claims. That stuff is so far out of my wheelhouse I don't feel like I can offer any sort of informed opinion one way or the other. What I do know is there's big .gov and corporate money up for grabs to play that carbon capture game. Occidental Petroleum is doing some early carbon capture from ambient air and 'storing' it underground. I decided I'd make a small bet on their stock because if it works or is productive is irrelevant as far as cash flow goes.

Brandon-w said:

The internet uses something like an estimated 307 gigawatts of power and no one says anything at all about it.

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Now do crypto-mining, mostly Bitcoin, the act of turning valuable electricity into Ponzi tokens. Ahead of most countries total consumption annually...

Docwagon1776 said:

Now do crypto-mining, mostly Bitcoin, the act of turning valuable electricity into Ponzi tokens. Ahead of most countries total consumption annually...

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And your point is? My point is the electric carfake feel good, get stranded, spontaneously Combusting immature technoligy that is being pushed is going to what triple by 2035? So how do we supply power? The grid can't handle it, our infrastructure can only be pushed so hard to keep These things charged. You yourself said coal is one of the main supporters of electricity did you not? So what we go nuclear? Pour more coal to these things to keep up? Battery cars are unsustainable and will likely be an environmental disaster.
But hey at the end of the day when you're fighting over your charge station for your flamboyant little power wheels I'll be over here turning plastic into diesel for free and driving around happily.

Yardbird said:

Interesting.......

Hertz Is Now Selling Tesla Cars At Bumper Discounts After Announcing A Scale Back On EVs​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...p&cvid=538a7f469b29456883714057cd3933c1&ei=63

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Hertz has to be ran by idiots. They went bankrupt, what, 3 years ago or so? I honestly can't figure out what the play was when some big funds bid for them in bankruptcy. It wasn't a profitable business you could break down into parts, drain assets, and then discard the carcass. Probably someone smarter than me figured some creative finance thing, or they just had enough money they figured they could put it all on 00 and see what happened.

Fun fact, 5 year stock performance:

Hertz: -61%
Budget/Avis: +550%
Enterprise: Flat

Vastly underperformed their peers.

I have Hertz President's Circle status and still never use them. They are *without fail* more expensive than competitors in any market I travel to by a fair margin. I'm not surprised they are taking a bath on EVs with investor money in the slightest.

Brandon-w said:

And your point is? My point is the electric carfake feel good, get stranded, spontaneously Combusting immature technoligy that is being pushed is going to what triple by 2035? So how do we supply power? The grid can't handle it, our infrastructure can only be pushed so hard to keep These things charged. You yourself said coal is one of the main supporters of electricity did you not? So what we go nuclear? Pour more coal to these things to keep up? Battery cars are unsustainable and will likely be an environmental disaster.
But hey at the end of the day when you're fighting over your charge station for your flamboyant little power wheels I'll be over here turning plastic into diesel for free and driving around happily.

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I think you probably need to go back and see who said what. I'm not interested in arguing the things you think I said.

My point is Bitcoin is a giant waste of electricity. If you want something that's a stupid waste of resources to compare something else to, crypto is the elephant in the room. The Internet is at least useful and a huge economic engine.

Docwagon1776 said:

I think you probably need to go back and see who said what. I'm not interested in arguing the things you think I said.

My point is Bitcoin is a giant waste of electricity. If you want something that's a stupid waste of resources to compare something else to, crypto is the elephant in the room. The Internet is at least useful and a huge economic engine.

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Nevertheless, what you did or didn't say it's comically irrelevant. Maybe the power situation should be sorted out grid and battery life wise before the mandates are set in place eh?
Yes your one absolute point is correct (hands gold star over) bitcoin is also a waste of time we get it. Would you like me to do the math on that for you too?
Let's just add that to the ever increasing grid load, put on our grass covered goggles and drive our electric Razor of a car feeling like youre making a difference. You're not, not by a long shot.

@Docwagon1776 I'm Starting to think you have some sort if invested affiliation with electric cars Being so hardcore for them. Just imagine the industries electric will kill, tuners, aftermarket performance parts, gas stations electric basically sucks the joy out of driving stressing out over the next charge. Nothing you say can convince me that electric is the way.

Brandon-w said:

@Docwagon1776 I'm Starting to think you have some sort if invested affiliation with electric cars Being so hardcore for them.

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Can you point to one post where I'm 'hardcore' for EVs? In this thread or anywhere on the forum? I think you've confused me with someone else as I'm agnostic at best, don't own one, and have said multiple times they do not suit my needs at this time.

Or perhaps anyone who isn't in agreement with you on every point must be 'hardcore for EVs'?

Brandon-w said:

Nothing you say can convince me that electric is the way.

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Since you edited that in, I'll add this in as well:

Find *one post* I've made anywhere on this forum where I've attempted to convince anyone that electric is the way. You're needlessly hostile and assigning me positions I've never taken.

I'm more like softcore for EVs.

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Just to be clear there is no way to run and sustain this. Everyone turn on your homes Ac at once and see how fast the rolling brownouts start to happen. Let alone everyone go home at 5 everyone plugs in and boom Ur in the dark. Can't wait lol.

gonkulator said:

I'm more like softcore for EVs.

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I'm not judging if you need a grocery getter and don't have to drive 45 mins to get there hell I mighta used one then. Nothing lame though I'd blow my brains all over a Nissan leaf or something like that hahahaha. It'd need some passing power and I want to be able to do Atleast 150mph in it.
I'd plug it in anywhere for free gas too lol! "pulls the 110-220 step up inverter from the trunk"
Just don't think the future can sustain it is my argument. So many up coming power demands just makes it so hard on the grid to support this.

gonkulator said:

I'm more like softcore for EVs.

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... "Gonkulator" ... isn't that some type of an "electric Bunny rabbit" trap?, lol!

JHoward said:

... "Gonkulator" ... isn't that some type of an "electric Bunny rabbit" trap?, lol!

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To catch a German ya know.

I'll just leave this here.

Hemi395 said:

If Electric Cars Were Honest - Honest Ads (Tesla EV Parody)

If electric car commercials were honest, here's how they'd sound.SUBSCRIBE HERE: http://goo.gl/ITTCPW CLICK HERE For more AFTER HOURS: http://goo.gl/Nrg6JhSe...

youtu.be

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OM F G...

I mean if Corey would have just posted this post #1 nothing else needs to be said, lol

EPIC vid

I used to like lentils, lol.

DONT THINK JUST DRIVE...

Bottomed by captian gd planet, lol.

.

As green as it gets.