Fifth Wheels By Keystone For 1500

These strings are always entertaining. Before we traded the 5er in on the coach, was running a heavy trailer and had to look hard to find a truck spec that did what I wanted, with the creature comforts I wanted as well. The 20% on the pin is very optimistic. Pin was 24% of trailer. Both axles were well inside ratings, but the truck only had 200 lbs of payload left to play with, and the trailer even less. I would also mention, that this was with only about 1/4 - 1/3 of a tank in the fresh tank (~20 gallons), just enough for hand washing and pit stops on the road. It never felt out of control and HO Cummins never complained. Truck was a '22 3500 Laramie Night, Long Bed, DRW. Hitch was a BW Companion. Trailer was a '22 Montana 3855BR.

Edit: I did have a tool box in the bed of the truck as well.

Here is the math from the setup I was running before we traded:

ICHILLU said:

You need to learn how to read your chart... 1500 - 5.7 3.92 / 8 spd = 10,500 lb...

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The problem usually is the payload capacity. My brother's 1500 Laramie had barely 1300 lbs of payload despite Ram stating it would tow over 10,000 lbs. My Grand Design 260RD is supposedly 1/2 ton friendly but it's probably not possible as the claimed dry pin weight is about 1300 lbs empty. The wife makes sure it's well above that after packing.

ICHILLU said:

Do not listen to the "Nay Sayers"... I have been trailering a 27 Ft Keystone Laredo 5th Wheel Trailer with the last two "properly prepared" Ram 1500 pickup trucks - sliding 1500K Reese hitch in a 6.4 ft box equipped 1500 Laramie with air suspension, towing package, 3.92 / 8 speed trans - no issues and trailer is within the 1/2 ton towing capacity. Way better experience than the tow behind travel trailer - have done both.

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That's right, Bubba! Don't let the gubmint and those dang enginerds tell you what you can and can't do wit yer pickup!

There are a few “half ton trucks” that could pull a small 5th wheel trailer but there not really half tons in the scope of things…

The older F150 with the HD payload package “unicorn”
The older GMC and Chevy 1500 HD from like early to mid 2000’s
The old dodge ram or just ram 1500 mega cab, idr the exact years but they are 3/4 ton trucks but classified as a half ton
Nissan XD with the 5.6 V8- it’s 5/8 of a truck technically

they have unusually high payload capacities but they are hard to find and not new trucks. Like almost everyone else said, 1/2 ton fifth wheel towable, you run out of payload on your truck before towing capacity

Yes you can do it but the truck doesn't like it. I had a 1500 Sport ultra short bed towing a the Keystone 23MLS. All the numers work but, as all the number crunchers will tell you there is no way to keep the pin weight under the load limit. I had airbags which helped a lot and maybe got me up to the 2000 lb payload I was running, maybe. I loved the Truck and bought the smallest Fifth wheel they make to replace a small bumper pull I had. It really did fine over the 3000 miles I ran it. I always had in the back of my mind that I should upgrade to a 2500, but I wasn't uncomfortable running this setup. The truck did everything I needed and it was paid for. The only thing I didn't like was when you went over a bump it would bounce a few times. Kinda like driving a basketball down the road.

In November I got t-boned and that was the end of the truck. Fortunately the truck was the only casualty. I took the opportunity to upgrade to a Rebel 2500 with fifth wheel mounts and a payload rating of 2964. I still have to get a hitch so I haven't towed with it yet, but I can tell it will be a whole different experience.

I miss my sport. Was stupid fun after whipple and tune. But, man, it did not tow my travel trailer good at all. I don't know what your payload was, but mine was ridiculously low at 774 lbs. Mainly due to the 22" wheels. I bought a set of the 20" like you had just for some peace of mind.

Yeah, I couldn't have 4 grown men in my truck without being over payload. LOL

ICHILLU said:

You need to learn how to read your chart... 1500 - 5.7 3.92 / 8 spd = 10,500 lb... my trailer has been towed for the past 6 years by my 1500 with no issues, getting 13 mpg at 55 to 60 mph... gone over 18,000 miles with this truck and setup since 2017.

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Actually, I'd say the same for you. You're looking at the total tow capacity, NOT payload. Those are mutually exclusive numbers (per the chart that I need to learn to read). Whether you can do it or not, doesn't mean you should. If you can load a flatbed trailer in such a way to keep the tongue weight below the max, then theoretically you could tow 10,500 lbs behind a 1500. THAT is where the tow rating comes from. It doesn't account for a fifth wheel. If you'll read the charts for the 2500/3500s, THEY actually mention a fifth wheel or a gooseneck. It's never mentioned on a 1500. I wonder why?

A fifth wheel is an entirely different animal. The weight is sitting directly on the axle and most of the load is fixed, so moving cabinets and walls back and forth isn't possible.

And if you read my sig you'd see quite the opposite on the Ford lover comment.

I actually went camper shopping today and my wife and I looked at all of the half ton towable fifth wheels. The lightest on the lots we visited had a GVWR of 10,200 lbs. If you do the math, that's a 2,040 lb pin weight. Find a common trim 1500 with that much available payload after you subtract the weight of the fifth wheel hitch and the weight of at least 2 passengers.

It's simple math. That's it.

Riccochet said:

I don't know what your payload was, but mine was ridiculously low at 774 lbs. Mainly due to the 22" wheels.

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Payload is just GVWR - Curb Weight, all wheels and tires sold on these trucks have far more than enough weight rating that they are not the limiting factor in any way.

ramffml said:

Payload is just GVWR - Curb Weight, all wheels and tires sold on these trucks have far more than enough weight rating that they are not the limiting factor in any way.

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No, they do not. The 22" sport wheels on the 4th gen's did not have the load capacity. The wheels themselves were not rated for the weight. I called FCA to question the sticker on my truck and that is what they told me.

If your statement was true all Sport's would have a 700-800 payload. They don't, because of the wheels they come with.

Same truck as mine with the 20" wheels had a payload of 1400-1500 lbs.

My truck and wheels:

ICHILLU said:

Do not listen to the "Nay Sayers"... I have been trailering a 27 Ft Keystone Laredo 5th Wheel Trailer with the last two "properly prepared" Ram 1500 pickup trucks - sliding 1500K Reese hitch in a 6.4 ft box equipped 1500 Laramie with air suspension, towing package, 3.92 / 8 speed trans - no issues and trailer is within the 1/2 ton towing capacity. Way better experience than the tow behind travel trailer - have done both.

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I would love to see your CAT scale numbers on this setup. Can almost guarantee you are over your GRAWR

Just wrong that a manufacturer labels 5th wheels as "1500 towable". They aren't, weight will always be the problem. But as long as people think a 1500 can work like a 2500 or 3500, crazy will still be next to us on the highway.

Somebody posted about the 27bhs, and I know that trailer first hand from a family that travels with us. Properly loaded that pin weight increases, it has to to balance out weight behind the axles. It always creeps over 1k at the pin.

Riccochet said:

No, they do not. The 22" sport wheels on the 4th gen's did not have the load capacity. The wheels themselves were not rated for the weight. I called FCA to question the sticker on my truck and that is what they told me.

If your statement was true all Sport's would have a 700-800 payload. They don't, because of the wheels they come with.

Same truck as mine with the 20" wheels had a payload of 1400-1500 lbs.

My truck and wheels:

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Every rim and tire on a Ram can support the GVWR. What brings down the payload is probably all those options you're adding to the trims. Well, I'll Ieave a possible exception for 4th gens as I never owned one but for 5th gens, there is not a single truck that has less payload due to the rim or tire options. It's only the weight of features that bring it down.

Leftyvaquero said:

Hello,

I was reading regarding a fifth wheel trailer that’s rated for 1/2 ton trucks by Keystone, Curious if anyone has purchased a trailer from them or similar and what experience you have had with it. Towing and handling of it, compared to a bumper pull trailer. Thank you for the info.

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Why would anyone tow anything with a half ton?

ramffml said:

Every rim and tire on a Ram can support the GVWR. What brings down the payload is probably all those options you're adding to the trims. Well, I'll Ieave a possible exception for 4th gens as I never owned one but for 5th gens, there is not a single truck that has less payload due to the rim or tire options. It's only the weight of features that bring it down.

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Yeah, I had 800 lbs of trim and options on my truck. Are you we-tall-did or just ignorant?

I literally called FCA and asked them. Their words. The wheels. The wheels were not capable of handling more.

Please, don't h3rp the entire derp. Let others enjoy some as well.

If you'll notice, a lot of the DRW trucks (at least on a 4th gen) have a smaller rim with a larger sidewall tire. My 3500 had 17" wheels while my 2500 has 20" wheels.

While they may not directly impact payload since they are unsprung weight, they do increase overall GVWR of the truck if the larger wheels weigh more than stock wheels. And if you increase GVWR, then that has to be accounted for somewhere else.

Easy math here: If your truck's GVWR is 10,000 lbs and the truck scales at 7,000 lbs theoretically your payload would be 3,000 lbs. Let's say you add a larger wheel that's 50 lbs heavier, you added 200 lbs to the GVWR. So, 10,000 - 7,200 = 2,800. So it would actually impact payload indirectly.

Another consideration is what the rims are designed to carry. There is a stamp on the inside of factory ram wheels that indicates the max weight rating of the rim. On my 16 DRW there was also a stamp in there for the max psi rating. I haven't had my 2500 wheels off to check those. I'm willing to bet that my 2500 wheels are not rated to carry the same weight as my 2500.

Leftyvaquero said:

Hello,

I was reading regarding a fifth wheel trailer that’s rated for 1/2 ton trucks by Keystone, Curious if anyone has purchased a trailer from them or similar and what experience you have had with it. Towing and handling of it, compared to a bumper pull trailer. Thank you for the info.

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I used to haul those campers for a living it really isn't the towing that you have to worry about but the height of the camper in windy conditions. All salesmen or women will give you the weight to vehicle ratio but even though you could pull it with a 1/2 ton truck why would you. Most of the Keystone 1/2 ton 5th wheels a 6'6" person can stand straight up in them. They pulled nice behind my one ton dually. They weigh for the most part under 7,000 lbs. loaded weight. Depending which one you purchased. Just remember when pulling one there not meant to go over 65 mph that is what the tires on the camper is rated for. Not including if you want to stop suddenly you won't.

Riccochet said:

Yeah, I had 800 lbs of trim and options on my truck. Are you we-tall-did or just ignorant?

I literally called FCA and asked them. Their words. The wheels. The wheels were not capable of handling more.

Please, don't h3rp the entire derp. Let others enjoy some as well.

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I've been around here long enough to know not to just take your word for it. If you can post different GVWR/payload stickers then obviously I'll learn something new, until then it's just BS IMHO.

Doing some basic math here: GVWR on my truck is 7100 pounds. Divide that by 4 and you need wheels and tires that are only rated for 1800 pounds. They're not giving you wheelbarrow rims.

Capt Derek said:

Why would anyone tow anything with a half ton?

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Because their wife's wouldn't let them buy a real truck... lol...

Randy Grant said:

Nope, no 1/2 ton can tow a fiver

2024 f-150
The 2024 Ford F-150 combines power and durability with a fully boxed high-strength steel frame and a high-strength, military-grade, aluminum alloy body. It achieves a best-in-class available max payload of 2,455 pounds, solidifying its reputation as a capable and dependable truck.

2023 Ram
HIGH-STRENGTH STEEL FRAME. The 2023 Ram 1500 is constructed with a 98% high-strength steel frame, assisting with stiffness and durability. This strong foundation helps deliver a maximum gas towing capacity of up to 12,750 pounds 1 and up to 2,300 pounds of maximum payload.

2023 GMC
The standard engine on the Silverado 1500 is the 2.7-liter turbocharged four-cylinder. This engine has 310 horsepower, 430 lb-ft of torque, a maximum towing capacity of 9,500 pounds, and a payload capacity of 2,260 pounds.

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Just because you can doesn't mean you should

RickyJ108 said:

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

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And if you "shouldn't", doesn't that mean you really can't "can"?