2015 5.7l Hemi, Which Timing Is Right? (If either)

[DodgeWTF]

repost because i posted in wrong gen thread
2015 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi. Did a cam / lifter swap, non MDS Stock spec cam from AMS racing. Everything went in great, after setting timing ( what i thought was correct ) engine started and ran fine but Autel was reading two small misfires on cylinder 3 and 7. Thought it was pushrods misaligned but now I think its timing. Every diagram and manual I have read says to mark the cam gear at 12 o clock and the crank at 6 o clock. My issue is i cant get either to align prefect. Either the cam is at 12:30 and the cranks at 6:00 or the cams at 12:00 and the crank is at 5-5:30. None of my rods bent or anything so Im not sure if my timing was or is even off. Autel was also reading the desired exhaust cam position to be 128 when actual position was 128.4 or vice versa

Wondering if anyone can help me out, photo posted below is how I had it when i test started and got two missfires
Cam phaser at 12:00

Crank gear at 5:30

How it currently sits
Cam phaser 12:30

Crank gear 6:00

 

[NWRQC]

The cam marks will be at 12:00 and the crank mark will be about 5:00-5:30. I just wrapped up installing a cam in my truck and the timing mark on the crank gear looked closer to 5:00, with the cam mark at 12.

 

[DodgeWTF]

The cam marks will be at 12:00 and the crank mark will be about 5:00-5:30. I just wrapped up installing a cam in my truck and the timing mark on the crank gear looked closer to 5:00, with the cam mark at 12.

thanks man. thats what im now hearing. not sure why everyone and the manual states it will be at 6oclock

 

[NWRQC]

No problem. After reading posts about issues post can install and seeing a majority of them being timing related, I spent a lot of time researching so I wouldn’t have any issues. That and the push rods not seating all the way, but that one I don’t understand. I’m not sure how the push rods couldn’t be fully seated in the cups. Mine went together so smoothly I think I spent more time trying to figure out how they can be installed wrong just to ensure mine weren’t. Hopefully the misfiring issue was just a fluke or it’s a simple fix.

 

[jws123]

thanks man. thats what im now hearing. not sure why everyone and the manual states it will be at 6oclock

also if you had a missfire check your push rods to make sure they clicked in and are in the correct hole happens on almost every cam replacement sometimes people put them into the oil holes.

 

[Mack20classic]

The cam marks will be at 12:00 and the crank mark will be about 5:00-5:30. I just wrapped up installing a cam in my truck and the timing mark on the crank gear looked closer to 5:00, with the cam mark at 12.

Mellings had a video on YouTube that I followed. I put my cam gear exactly like the OP HAS. MY CAM GEAR WAS AT 12 O’CLOCK AND MY CRANK ENDED UP BEING AROUND 5:30. THE ONLY THING THAT I QUESTIONED AFTER I’VE GOTTEN EVERYTHING INSTALLED AND WAITING ON MY UNLOCKED PCM TO COME IN THE MAIL, IS THAT SOME PEOPLE WERE CLAIMING NUMBER ONE CYLINDER HAD TO BE AT TOP DEAD CENTER. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU’RE A CRANK GEAR IS AT 5:30 THEN NUMBER ONE PISTON HAS TO BE AT TOP DEAD CENTER??? Meling never mentioned anything about having number one cylinder at top dead center. The only thing they emphasize was having the Cam gear at 12 o’clock and then the crank gear at 6 o’clock with the two marks on the timing chain on the cam gear and the single mark on the timing chain on the crank gear. Did you do anything with top bed Center? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Wild one]

Mellings had a video on YouTube that I followed. I put my cam gear exactly like the OP HAS. MY CAM GEAR WAS AT 12 O’CLOCK AND MY CRANK ENDED UP BEING AROUND 5:30. THE ONLY THING THAT I QUESTIONED AFTER I’VE GOTTEN EVERYTHING INSTALLED AND WAITING ON MY UNLOCKED PCM TO COME IN THE MAIL, IS THAT SOME PEOPLE WERE CLAIMING NUMBER ONE CYLINDER HAD TO BE AT TOP DEAD CENTER. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU’RE A CRANK GEAR IS AT 5:30 THEN NUMBER ONE PISTON HAS TO BE AT TOP DEAD CENTER??? Meling never mentioned anything about having number one cylinder at top dead center. The only thing they emphasize was having the Cam gear at 12 o’clock and then the crank gear at 6 o’clock with the two marks on the timing chain on the cam gear and the single mark on the timing chain on the crank gear. Did you do anything with top bed Center? Am I understanding this correctly?

How-To: 4th gen hemi cam installation

Since cams are becoming more available for the VVT hemi engine, regardless of whose cam you choose, here is the how-to of doing the cam swap for the 4th gen trucks. This is honestly a job that can be done by anyone with basic handtools and basic mechanical skills. I did my first cam swap...

www.ramforum.com

 

[Mack20classic]

How-To: 4th gen hemi cam installation

Since cams are becoming more available for the VVT hemi engine, regardless of whose cam you choose, here is the how-to of doing the cam swap for the 4th gen trucks. This is honestly a job that can be done by anyone with basic handtools and basic mechanical skills. I did my first cam swap...

www.ramforum.com

Well I followed AllData (what dealerships use) to do my timing set. I think lots of people don’t understand that it’s about following the gear markings and chain markings. Cam gear at 12:00 with double marked links around it, and crank gear mark at 5:30-6:00 with single chain mark on crank gear mark. After that everything should slide in and cam remains at 12:00. People are making it wayyyy deeper than what it is. Very simple.

 

[Wild one]

Well I followed AllData (what dealerships use) to do my timing set. I think lots of people don’t understand that it’s about following the gear markings and chain markings. Cam gear at 12:00 with double marked links around it, and crank gear mark at 5:30-6:00 with single chain mark on crank gear mark. After that everything should slide in and cam remains at 12:00. People are making it wayyyy deeper than what it is. Very simple.

If you do the timing before the heads are back on,it's easy to tell whether #1 is at top dead center

 

[Mack20classic]

If you do the timing before the heads are back on,it's easy to tell whether #1 is at top dead center

All data doesn’t specify anything about TDC. From my findings, you can not have the crank mark at 6 o’clock without having #1 piston at TDC. If you are at 6 o’clock on the crank gear mark, then you are at TDC for #1 piston. Unless someone else can prove otherwise, this was my findings. Mellings video also doesn’t mention anything about TDC, which would further justify the statement of crank gear marking.

 

[Wild one]

All data doesn’t specify anything about TDC. From my findings, you can not have the crank mark at 6 o’clock without having #1 piston at TDC. If you are at 6 o’clock on the crank gear mark, then you are at TDC for #1 piston. Unless someone else can prove otherwise, this was my findings. Mellings video also doesn’t mention anything about TDC, which would further justify the statement of crank gear marking.

Post a link to this video,as i've never watched it. If you do the chain before you put the heads on,it's easy to tell whether #1 piston is at TDC,not sure why guys install the heads before installing the cam gears and timing chain though ,never really did figure that one out,as it seems backasswards to me

 

[Mack20classic]

Post a link to this video,as i've never watched it. If you do the chain before you put the heads on,it's easy to tell whether #1 piston is at TDC,not sure why guys install the heads before installing the cam gears and timing chain though ,never really did figure that one out,as it seems backasswards to me

Truck is running very solid tonight. Got my unlocked pcm in and hemifever did my tune! I have to get my Borla on tmrw and I’ll make another video. I’ll try to post the video of mellings timing chain install, but I filled this video and had my cranck gear at 5:30/5:45 and cam gear at 12:00 and my stuff seems to be running solid.

 

[Mack20classic]

Truck is running very solid tonight. Got my unlocked pcm in and hemifever did my tune! I have to get my Borla on tmrw and I’ll make another video. I’ll try to post the video of mellings timing chain install, but I filled this video and had my cranck gear at 5:30/5:45 and cam gear at 12:00 and my stuff seems to be running solid.

5.7 liter HEMI engine installation of the VVT actuator

In this video, Melling tech director Cale discusses the installation of the VVT actuator on the 5.7 liter Hemi engines.If you have questions, please call the...

youtu.be

 

[Mack20classic]

Post a link to this video,as i've never watched it. If you do the chain before you put the heads on,it's easy to tell whether #1 piston is at TDC,not sure why guys install the heads before installing the cam gears and timing chain though ,never really did figure that one out,as it seems backasswards to me

5.7 liter HEMI engine installation of the VVT actuator

In this video, Melling tech director Cale discusses the installation of the VVT actuator on the 5.7 liter Hemi engines.If you have questions, please call the...

youtu.be

Post a link to this video,as i've never watched it. If you do the chain before you put the heads on,it's easy to tell whether #1 piston is at TDC,not sure why guys install the heads before installing the cam gears and timing chain though ,never really did figure that one out,as it seems backasswards to me

i set my timing prior to putting my heads on but rightttt before I put on my timing cover/front cover I had second thoughts as I couldn’t find a post talking about what this one did. The original OP showed a pic where the crank gear is at 5:30/5:45 and cam gear 12:00 with all proper timing links orientated. So I took back apart the chain and reset everything and torqued it down. Anyways everything seem to be fine.

 

[Wild one]

Truck is running very solid tonight. Got my unlocked pcm in and hemifever did my tune! I have to get my Borla on tmrw and I’ll make another video. I’ll try to post the video of mellings timing chain install, but I filled this video and had my cranck gear at 5:30/5:45 and cam gear at 12:00 and my stuff seems to be running solid.

I don't think anybodies arguing with you,as it's pretty common knowledge the bottom crank gear is never at 6:00.
If you read through Kurtis's thread that's going on 10 years old now,he tells you how to time them with the oil pump still in place.If you put the timing components on before the heads,i don't see why you're having issues with TDC,it's easy to tell if the piston is at TDC,so what's you're hang-up about it not being in the video you're referancing
Still amazes me the amount of guys that go at it backasswards though,and install the timing components after they throw the heads back on,just doesn't make a hell'va lot of sense to me to do it that way
Sounds to me like you started over thinking things,that'll get you everytime

 

[Mack20classic]

I don't think anybodies arguing with you,as it's pretty common knowledge the bottom crank gear is never at 6:00.
If you read through Kurtis's thread that's going on 10 years old now,he tells you how to time them with the oil pump still in place.
Still amazes me the amount of guys that go at it backasswards though,and install the timing components after they throw the heads back on,just doesn't make a hell'va lot of sense to me to do it that way

I agree. I initially set it without heads on. I just had a moment where I got in my head and second guessed myself prior to final bolting engine up. I replaced my oil pump with a HV and pulled my oil pan off to replaced a non leaking gasket because I’m just OCD and wrenching is my passion.

 

[Wild one]

I agree. I initially set it without heads on. I just had a moment where I got in my head and second guessed myself prior to final bolting engine up. I replaced my oil pump with a HV and pulled my oil pan off to replaced a non leaking gasket because I’m just OCD and wrenching is my passion.

What do you figure you'll accomplish with the HV pump.You do realize the cam lobes and lifter wheel are hung out in the open,and are strictly lubed by crank splash,there is "No" pressurized oil fed to the lobes,so installing a HV pump only robs you of horespower and has the potential to create more oil heat.
Don't be surprised if you actually have lower oil pressure at idle,then you had with the stock pump

 

[Mack20classic]

What do you figure you'll accomplish with the HV pump.You do realize the cam lobes and lifter wheel are hung out in the open,and are strictly lubed by crank splash,there is "No" pressurized oil fed to the lobes,so installing a HV pump only robs you of horespower and has the potential to create more oil heat.
Don't be surprised if you actually have lower oil pressure at idle,then you had with the stock pump

My oil pressure went up 7 psi. I can sense your tone behind the words you type. Brother I chose to
Run a high volume because I was in there and wanted a new pump. I’ll sacrafice a few HP to have the oil moved around quicker… it’s just some cheap assurance is all. I’m not worried about the cam as my OEM cam and lifters were absolutely perfect when I took them out. I went ahead and replaced all my seals and gaskets on the engine while there too. Did I have to…? No I didn’t but I did it to just feel good and brag to myself lol that I did because I’m just weird. Hey I like that HV oil pump and proud of it . My oil temp is now reading about 20 degrees cooler than before with a 180 thermostat in it so I think it’s okay.

 

[Wild one]

My oil pressure went up 7 psi. I can sense your tone behind the words you type. Brother I chose to
Run a high volume because I was in there and wanted a new pump. I’ll sacrafice a few HP to have the oil moved around quicker… it’s just some cheap assurance is all. I’m not worried about the cam as my OEM cam and lifters were absolutely perfect when I took them out. I went ahead and replaced all my seals and gaskets on the engine while there too. Did I have to…? No I didn’t but I did it to just feel good and brag to myself lol that I did because I’m just weird. Hey I like that HV oil pump and proud of it . My oil temp is now reading about 20 degrees cooler than before with a 180 thermostat in it so I think it’s okay.

How do you figure the oil is moving quicker,unless you changed the pick-up tube to the oil pump and enlarged all the oil passages in the engine,the oil doesn't move any quicker.The pickup tube and screen limits how fast the oil gets to the pump,and after that the oil passages and filter still restrict the oils movement through the engine.
The Hellcat gets a higher volumn pump becuase it has 2 stand alone oil coolers,and it needs more volumn because of the pressure drop that occurs with the 2 coolers that are a couple feet from the engine.
I'm guessing your oil pressure increase is due to the fact you upped the idle rpm in the tune.
Just what is your idle rpm,and oil pressure hot at idle,and what are your oil temps with the 180 thermostat.

 

[Mack20classic]

How do you figure the oil is moving quicker,unless you changed the pick-up tube to the oil pump and enlarged all the oil passages in the engine,the oil doesn't move any quicker.The pickup tube and screen limits how fast the oil gets to the pump,and after that the oil passages and filter still restrict the oils movement through the engine.
The Hellcat gets a higher volumn pump becuase it has 2 stand alone oil coolers,and it needs more volumn because of the pressure drop that occurs with the 2 coolers that are a couple feet from the engine.
I'm guessing your oil pressure increase is due to the fact you upped the idle rpm in the tune.
Just what is your idle rpm,and oil pressure hot at idle,and what are your oil temps with the 180 thermostat.

You’re probably right then. They increased idle slightly. I’ll sure it up to maybe I got fed wrong information. There were some topics that talked about how a HV oil pump is a good investment while doing internal
Work so I decided for it. There is a famous YouTube channel that I got that information from, and I thought “what could it hurt”. I got a mellings and it came with a new pick up tube as well. Nothing was wrong with my stock one… at this point since it’s installed I’ll roll with it. I did put a new cloyes timing set in it witch vvt assembly gear too. There was nothing wrong with the factory one but I was recommended to change it by a handful of ppl.