2017 1500 5.7 cranks but doesn't start seems to a fuel issue.

[Slinge]

So I just discovered all the youtube vids about Alfa OBD
a wealth of info that I will be digesting.

 

[RamDiver]

So I just discovered all the youtube vids about Alfa OBD
a wealth of info that I will be digesting.

I have successfully tweaked several settings in the BCM but have limited experience using it for diagnostics.

BTW, I attempted to test fire an injector this afternoon and it failed.

There are several irregularities I've noticed with my '21 and AlfaOBD.

When accessing the BCM, the program always defaults to MY2019. Several of the other modules switch to MY2013.

I don't know if this is usual or not but it appears that my truck may have older modules.

@Ken226 may have more experience using AlfaOBD for diagnostics.

.

 

[Slinge]

I guess that's too much to ask for such a reasonably priced scan tool

 

[Ken226]

I have successfully tweaked several settings in the BCM but have limited experience using it for diagnostics.

BTW, I attempted to test fire an injector this afternoon and it failed.

There are several irregularities I've noticed with my '21 and AlfaOBD.

When accessing the BCM, the program always defaults to MY2019. Several of the other modules switch to MY2013.

I don't know if this is usual or not but it appears that my truck may have older modules.

@Ken226 may have more experience using AlfaOBD for diagnostics.

.

With Alfa, to actuate the injectors you need to connect to the Engine Computer.

Mine works fine. I'm not sure why your setup wouldn't actuate the injectors, that is odd.

I guess that's too much to ask for such a reasonably priced scan tool

"reasonable" is different for everyone. You'll have to spell out your definition.

I have a AlfaOBD, a Thinkscan 689BT and a Innova 7111. AlfaOBD is around 200$ all-in, since you gotta buy the OBD Link MX+ and the AlfaOBD program. The Thinkscan and Innova are around 450-500 each. I consider each of them to be very reasonable, considering their capabilities.

All of them can actuate fuel injectors.

 

[Ken226]

Will Alfa actuate the FPCM ? Or maybe I should ask if that is a complete list of functions ?

Yes

connect to the engine computer, active diagnostics and you can actuate the fuel pump relay. Giving you a list of functions isn't feasible, as it is a really long list in a small form field. Id be copying, pasting, scrolling, copying, pasting, over and over and just give anyone to tried to read it a headache.

 

[Ken226]

I have codes now P025A and U0109. For some reason fuel isn't getting to the injectors.

Those codes indicate an open circuit on the wire that powers the fuel pump.

Could it be clogged pump pickup or the pump not making enough pressure,.

If there is an open circuit to the wire that powers the fuel pump, then the fuel pressure would be zero.

There is a little thing on the fuel line with wires attached to it just before it gets to the fuel rail. What is that?

It's the fuel pressure sensor.

Well it will start with starting fluid. It has around 60 psi of fuel pressure but will not start. Any ideas

A p025A code indicates no power to the fuel pump. How did you measure the fuel pressure? A pump that isn't running should have trouble generating any pressure at all. Perhaps you should disconnect the fuel pump connector and check for power with a multimeter.

This is the 2013-2015 wiring. Not sure if yours is the same:


Given the way the system works:

"OPERATION
When the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) receives a � Start’ or � Run’ signal from the ignition; It energizes the Fuel Pump relay which sends a continuous 12-volt supply to the Fuel Pump Control Module (FPCM). The PCM also sends a control signal directly to the FPCM which regulates the Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal that will be sent to the Fuel Pump Module. The PWM signal (duty cycle) will vary from 10-100% depending on the input of the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor and other engine demands. The PCM receives a PWM signal from the FPCM representing the state of all inputs and outputs of the FPCM. This is a Constant Pressure Fuel system which means any Delta Pressure test performed on the Fuel Pump would show a continuous pressure (regardless of the changes in PWM). If a pressure sensor fails or other failures are present; The duty cycle goes to Limp mode (100%) to maintain fuel pressure."


Check the fuel pump connectors up above the fuel tank. A squirrel might have got up there and done some electrical work.

 

[RamDiver]

Will Alfa actuate the FPCM ? Or maybe I should ask if that is a complete list of functions ?
That seems to be a partial list of Active Diagnostics.
If you could show the complete list ; that would be very helpful.
Thank you in advance.

I wanted the list, too.
I will try another interface later today to see if I can activate the injectors.



















.

 

[Flstss]

I wanted the list, too.
I will try another interface later today to see if I can activate the injectors.


View attachment 581926


View attachment 581927


View attachment 581928


View attachment 581929


View attachment 581930


View attachment 581931

.

Why are you posting this on my thread, I'm am trying to get my truck fixed and you are flooding my post with this stuff. Open another thread and post there thank you
And delete

 

[crash68]

AlfaOBD will test fire the injectors individually. And with a pre 2018, no security gateway bypass harness is required.

Why are you posting this on my thread,

They are suggesting and showing you it's possible to test/diagnose your truck with AlfaOBD . It's may help your situation. The app is $50 and runs on Android or Windows and you'll need a Bluetooth OBD dongle.

 

[Flstss]

They are suggesting and showing you it's possible to test/diagnose your truck with AlfaOBD . It's may help your situation. The app is $50 and runs on Android or Windows and you'll need a Bluetooth OBD dongle.

Yes in that quote but they are having there own conversation in my thread . If the want to do that then make their own thread and point me to it. Not flood my thread so I have to weed though it all to find something that it directed to me.

 

[Flstss]

Those codes indicate an open circuit on the wire that powers the fuel pump.

If there is an open circuit to the wire that powers the fuel pump, then the fuel pressure would be zero.

It's the fuel pressure sensor.

A p025A code indicates no power to the fuel pump. How did you measure the fuel pressure? A pump that isn't running should have trouble generating any pressure at all. Perhaps you should disconnect the fuel pump connector and check for power with a multimeter.

This is the 2013-2015 wiring. Not sure if yours is the same:
View attachment 581925

Given the way the system works:

"OPERATION
When the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) receives a � Start’ or � Run’ signal from the ignition; It energizes the Fuel Pump relay which sends a continuous 12-volt supply to the Fuel Pump Control Module (FPCM). The PCM also sends a control signal directly to the FPCM which regulates the Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal that will be sent to the Fuel Pump Module. The PWM signal (duty cycle) will vary from 10-100% depending on the input of the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor and other engine demands. The PCM receives a PWM signal from the FPCM representing the state of all inputs and outputs of the FPCM. This is a Constant Pressure Fuel system which means any Delta Pressure test performed on the Fuel Pump would show a continuous pressure (regardless of the changes in PWM). If a pressure sensor fails or other failures are present; The duty cycle goes to Limp mode (100%) to maintain fuel pressure."


Check the fuel pump connectors up above the fuel tank. A squirrel might have got up there and done some electrical work.

This is mine

 

[Flstss]

Those codes indicate an open circuit on the wire that powers the fuel pump.

If there is an open circuit to the wire that powers the fuel pump, then the fuel pressure would be zero.

It's the fuel pressure sensor.

A p025A code indicates no power to the fuel pump. How did you measure the fuel pressure? A pump that isn't running should have trouble generating any pressure at all. Perhaps you should disconnect the fuel pump connector and check for power with a multimeter.

This is the 2013-2015 wiring. Not sure if yours is the same:
View attachment 581925

Given the way the system works:

"OPERATION
When the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) receives a � Start’ or � Run’ signal from the ignition; It energizes the Fuel Pump relay which sends a continuous 12-volt supply to the Fuel Pump Control Module (FPCM). The PCM also sends a control signal directly to the FPCM which regulates the Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal that will be sent to the Fuel Pump Module. The PWM signal (duty cycle) will vary from 10-100% depending on the input of the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor and other engine demands. The PCM receives a PWM signal from the FPCM representing the state of all inputs and outputs of the FPCM. This is a Constant Pressure Fuel system which means any Delta Pressure test performed on the Fuel Pump would show a continuous pressure (regardless of the changes in PWM). If a pressure sensor fails or other failures are present; The duty cycle goes to Limp mode (100%) to maintain fuel pressure."


Check the fuel pump connectors up above the fuel tank. A squirrel might have got up there and done some electrical work.

Here's what I did, at first I thought it was the fuel pump so I jumped it. Still didn't start. I shot a little starting fluid into it and it's sputtered like it wanted to start. So I'm getting spark. I figured it was a fuel issue. I put my my scan tool on and went to live. Shows that I have around 60 psi fuel pressure. When I pull the fuel line off the fuel rail there is fuel there. I checked the ground near the tank that's for the FPCM cleaned it and put it back on. Just a note underneath my truck it's spotless. No rust or corrosion, I use wool wax. Took the Plug off of the FPCM and multimeter all the contacts. From the top which is where the clip is from left to right looking into the connector not the module I got these values. 50.1 MV space 2.2 v 12v on the bottom row I got 49.9 MV 2.21 MV 4.9 v ground. All the MV ratings fluctuate the V readings are constant. I'm trying to do everything before having to pull the tank. You think by getting these readings would eliminate the possibility of a wire problem above the tank?

I have a push button start so when I cycle it over to the run position. The fuel pump only comes on for a few seconds correct? So when I took those readings above I put a jumper wire on so I would have the 12 volts there the whole time I was taking the readings. Is it possible is the FPCM? Does the FPCM communicating with the PCM having anything to do with triggering the fuel injectors? Cuz that seems to be the problem the fuel injectors are not opening. That's why it'll sputter when I shoot starting fluid in there actually it ran for a few seconds with just the starting fluid. But won't start on its own. So that's telling me no fuel is getting into the cylinders. Crank sensor? A short in a wire that has to do with the fuel injectors a relay?
Just a reminder I drove the truck with no issues ever. Came home parked it went to start at the next day and no start.

 

[Wild one]

Yes in that quote but they are having there own conversation in my thread . If the want to do that then make their own thread and point me to it. Not flood my thread so I have to weed though it all to find something that it directed to me.

You might want to delete post 28 and 30,as you're comments aren't going to get you much in the way of help.
@RamDiver was only trying to help you out,so there was no call to come unglued on him

 

[Adamcr68]

Why are you posting this on my thread, I'm am trying to get my truck fixed and you are flooding my post with this stuff. Open another thread and post there thank you
And delete

Wow!
@RamDiver and @Ken226, two of the most helpful and knowledgeable members on this forum corresponding back and forth on the same subject matter directly related to “your” post.
Isn’t it possible that could help you figure out a solution to your problem?
I will apologize in advance for muddying up your post with my observation, but you would have to look long and hard to find two members that spend more time and effort helping members here.
I truly hope you find your fix and humbly suggest that any back and forth, especially these members, could be helpful for you.
Just my .02$, might be worth even less to you.

 

[Flstss]

They are suggesting and showing you it's possible to test/diagnose your truck with AlfaOBD . It's may help your situation. The app is $50 and runs on Android or Windows and you'll need a Bluetooth OBD dongle.

Well I'm sorry, if it was explained to me as you explained it there's an app for this it's $50 on Android I would have taken a different perspective. It just looks like they're having a conversation amongst themselves about a scanner or an app as you pointed out. I would have taken it differently. All I was concerned with is finding a way to get my truck back on the road it's been sitting in my driveway since Monday it's my only vehicle. The thing that caught my eye was all the screenshots of something I know nothing about. I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. I don't mean to be disrespectful. @crash68 @Ken226 @RAMdriver @Adamcr68

 

[Ken226]

They are suggesting and showing you it's possible to test/diagnose your truck with AlfaOBD . It's may help your situation. The app is $50 and runs on Android or Windows and you'll need a Bluetooth OBD dongle.

Think we could move this to the 4th gen forum?

2017 is definitely 4th gen, right? I think 2018 was when the 5th came out.

 

[Ken226]

Well I'm sorry, if it was explained to me as you explained it there's an app for this it's $50 on Android I would have taken a different perspective. It just looks like they're having a conversation amongst themselves about a scanner or an app as you pointed out. I would have taken it differently. All I was concerned with is finding a way to get my truck back on the road it's been sitting in my driveway since Monday it's my only vehicle. The thing that caught my eye was all the screenshots of something I know nothing about. I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. I don't mean to be disrespectful. @crash68 @Ken226 @RAMdriver @Adamcr68

Don't guess on anything. Do you have a mechanical fuel pressure gauge, to verify the fuel pressure?

Also, listen to an injector with a stethoscope while cranking. You'll hear a rather loud clicking sound if it's firing. Or, use a noid light if you have one. Or, check out @RamDiver post 27 above, about how to test the injectors with AlfaOBD.

If your fuel pump module went into "limp" mode (see last sentence in fuel pump operation in post 26). Then you could have fuel pressure, but the PCM may be protecting your engine by not firing the injectors.

You may need a fuel pump module.

 

[turkeybird56]

Think we could move this to the 4th gen forum?

2017 is definitely 4th gen, right? I think 2018 was when the 5th came out.

2019 1st 5th Gen, and I have one of the 1st batch made April 2018. thru 2018 4th Gen.

 

[turkeybird56]

Well I'm sorry, if it was explained to me as you explained it there's an app for this it's $50 on Android I would have taken a different perspective. It just looks like they're having a conversation amongst themselves about a scanner or an app as you pointed out. I would have taken it differently. All I was concerned with is finding a way to get my truck back on the road it's been sitting in my driveway since Monday it's my only vehicle. The thing that caught my eye was all the screenshots of something I know nothing about. I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. I don't mean to be disrespectful. @crash68 @Ken226 @RAMdriver @Adamcr68

You are getting a lot of Info, quit letting the NJ come out, LMAO. @Ken226 is stupid smart on this stuff. @RamDiver is electrical smart.
(FTR I am a shore kid, lmao).

 

[Flstss]

Think we could move this to the 4th gen forum?

2017 is definitely 4th gen, right? I think 2018 was when the 5th came out.

Yes I believe it is a fourth gen I didn't know I was in 5th I thought I was in 4th