2017 6.4 G56 swap

[Kuhndog970]

Will the BGE stock auto crank accept a pilot bushing/bearing from the factory?

I will find out this weekend. Sure looks like it will from looking at it. This weekend is the install phase. Test fitting a bunch and all that. First I will change out my rear main for cheap insurance, then throw the flywheel up there. I'll toss the g56 up there and see what it tells me. Measurement wise, the bellhousing is the same. Should honestly bolt in no problem. Then the cutting the floor part. That is going to be a slow process. Don't want to mess that up. I will post updates here as I get going.

 

[Kuhndog970]

I don't have any experience working with transmissions, and I don't have access to a lift. It wasn't easy to find a mechanic that will take on the job. If you want to do a swap like this and cannot do it yourself, your best bet is indie Mexican mechanics! So far, only the Mexican mechanics I talked to would say it's doable. These shops are one man, cash only, and they do not show up as auto repair shops on GMaps. They don't even have names. The first guy that gave me the sky high quote was the brother of the (also Mexican) mechanic I usually work with - and that shop is also a shady cash-only garage, but he does some amazing jobs. The second shop - the one I have decided to work with for this swap, I met the guy at an auto parts shop.

My mechanic appears very confident about the programming part. I have absolutely no clue how that thing works. Please share any information you guys might have on that!

I'll be honest. 2k for this job is wildly low. The 16 to 18 is right where I have figured it would price it if doing it for other people. I would be very cautious on letting that guy tear into your truck. You get what you pay for as they say. As far as the tuning goes, engine side seems straight forward. Disable auto trans and disable mds. The bcm and rf hub tuning is where the magic comes into play and I'm not messing with that. Best of luck.

 

[catscape]

I'll be honest. 2k for this job is wildly low. The 16 to 18 is right where I have figured it would price it if doing it for other people. I would be very cautious on letting that guy tear into your truck. You get what you pay for as they say. As far as the tuning goes, engine side seems straight forward. Disable auto trans and disable mds. The bcm and rf hub tuning is where the magic comes into play and I'm not messing with that. Best of luck.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to stop by very often and keep an eye on it while my truck is in the shop. That 16k quote included parts and he claimed he'd be using a brand new G56 which I have no clue where to find, but rebuilt G56's usually cost 7k+ by itself with core charges included. So I assume a major part of that 16k comes from the transmission and other parts. That said I can agree that 2k would be an underestimate of the efforts needed.

Any ideas what BCM and RF hub tuning might be needed? I thought it would just be an ECM flash, just not sure if the Hemi ECM has that option.

 

[Kuhndog970]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to stop by very often and keep an eye on it while my truck is in the shop. That 16k quote included parts and he claimed he'd be using a brand new G56 which I have no clue where to find, but rebuilt G56's usually cost 7k+ by itself with core charges included. So I assume a major part of that 16k comes from the transmission and other parts. That said I can agree that 2k would be an underestimate of the efforts needed.

Any ideas what BCM and RF hub tuning might be needed? I thought it would just be an ECM flash, just not sure if the Hemi ECM has that option.

For tuning, all I care to know, is that AJ said he knows all the buttons are there he just has to push them.
I'm not sure where that guy found a new hemi g56. But parts and labor, that's not a bad price in my eyes as it is a complete shot in the dark at this point.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Right off the bat, I see at least 6 items that may need to be changed going from an 8 speed to a manual



I am not familiar with the programming, but my '16 8 speed shows this

 

[catscape]

Right off the bat, I see at least 6 items that may need to be changed going from an 8 speed to a manual

View attachment 586982

I am not familiar with the programming, but my '16 8 speed shows this

View attachment 586983

I took a look at a sample tuning file from a '15 2500 with the 6.4. Available options for "trans type" are: 40TE/41TE/41TEA, 42RLE, 545RFE/65RFE, 62TE and 66RFE. This is not looking good - I don't see a manual option here. I assume they stopped using the "manual transmission" vs "8-speed transmission" to differentiate between models and switched to the more specific "trans type".

I have not yet bought the tuning tools and software so can't test this out. Maybe OP can confirm if the '17 6.4 uses the same format, and if toggling "manual transmission" here can fix engine error codes when the 66RFE sensors are gone?

Under Engine > Fuel > Lean / Fuel-Saving there is the option to disable MDS so that should not be an issue. Everything else seems doable with AlfaOBD. The "trans type" issue looks like the last missing piece to me.

PS. Among all the different GPEC2A operating systems, only the Ram with 6.4L seems to use "trans type" rather than the toggles below it.

 

[Wild one]

I took a look at a sample tuning file from a '15 2500 with the 6.4. Available options for "trans type" are: 40TE/41TE/41TEA, 42RLE, 545RFE/65RFE, 62TE and 66RFE. This is not looking good - I don't see a manual option here. I assume they stopped using the "manual transmission" vs "8-speed transmission" to differentiate between models and switched to the more specific "trans type".

I have not yet bought the tuning tools and software so can't test this out. Maybe OP can confirm if the '17 6.4 uses the same format, and if toggling "manual transmission" here can fix engine error codes when the 66RFE sensors are gone?

Under Engine > Fuel > Lean / Fuel-Saving there is the option to disable MDS so that should not be an issue. Everything else seems doable with AlfaOBD. The "trans type" issue looks like the last missing piece to me.

PS. Among all the different GPEC2A operating systems, only the Ram with 6.4L seems to use "trans type" rather than the toggles below it.

View attachment 586990

I think a good tuner with HP can change the transmission to where you shouldn't have any codes or drivability issues.There's guys running around with 727 and turbo 400 automatics with no codes,but it's been done through HP not AlphaOBD.
As a last resort hunt up Russell at Sound German Automotive and see what he reconmends

 

[catscape]

I think a good tuner with HP can change the transmission to where you shouldn't have any codes or drivability issues.There's guys running around with 727 and turbo 400 automatics with no codes,but it's been done through HP not AlphaOBD.
As a last resort hunt up Russell at Sound German Automotive and see what he reconmends

Thank you for the pointer - I took note of that and will reach out if things don't work well.

This screenshot is from HP tuner loaded with a 6.4 Ram's hpt file. I doubt if the ECU in these trucks supports manual transmissions at all. I checked all GPEC2A hpt files I can find. The Challengers do not have the "trans type" switch regardless. On stock manual Challengers "manual transmission" is enabled and everything else disabled. On stock automatic Challengers one of the "x-speed transmission" is enabled and "manual transmission" is disabled. The same goes for 1500's with the 5.7. That is why I am concerned now about whether it's possible to tune a 6.4 Ram ECU to remove trans-related codes.

That said, I may buy a used ECU from a 1500 to play around with. I think that should support manual transmissions and I can tune the parameters for the 6.4 otherwise. Anyone with related experience can let me know if it sounds like a dumb idea to throw in a 1500 5.7 ECU? The hardware model is exactly the same and should plug right in.

One potential problem with this is the VIN number in an ECU must match the operating system. At least that's what HP tuner says. So I might be stuck with a 1500 VIN in my ECU and I'll need to re-program my BCM and RFH to match it. There may even be more parts with VIN validation that I need to take care of. AlfaOBD has the procedure to change VIN in BCM, and there's another procedure to "reset" the RFH after replacing it which I assume updates the VIN in it.

I'll call my local tuner and AJ next week to see what they think.