2017 Ram 1500 Fuel Pump Won't Shut Off

[K3lt3c]

I'm having what I suspect may be a TIPM issue as the pump stays on all the time. I'm working on a 2017 Ram 1500 (5.7L Laramie) and even if I pull fuse 70 (fuel pump fuse) the pump will not shut off.

The TIPM is currently out and I do have the ability to replace the relay, but it is testing fine. I want to rule out other issues before digging more into the TIPM. The concerning part is, from the very limited wiring diagrams I am able to find, the fuse is the last thing in line between the relay and the pump. So theoretically, the pump should not be able to run with the fuse out...but it does.

I see there is a module/controller of some sort in the circuit and it appears this vehicle also has a PWM (pulse width modulation) pump. Can anyone verify if that is in fact the case on either or both items? If so, could that module somehow provide voltage to the pump without interaction from the TIPM/fuse (fuse removed)?

HELP!

 

[tron67j]

The module controller would be for the PWM, but the power to the pump is separate so power to the pump would mean either the wrong fuse was pulled (which you appear to have the correct one) or there is a crossover of power from somewhere else. Could the key switch be cross-feeding the pump?

 

[EdGs]

Or your fuel pump relay has welded contacts.

 

[Ken226]

Was the fuel pump relay relocated, ie, the famous recall.

 

[tron67j]

Was the fuel pump relay relocated, ie, the famous recall.

What was that? I missed that one.

 

[Ken226]

What was that? I missed that one.

I don't remember which years were covered, but both my 13 Ram and the wife's 11 Durango had the recall.

Originally, the vehicle had the fuel pump relay hard soldered to into the TIPM, so if the relay died the entire TIPM had to be replaced.

The recall involved the dealer snipping the relay wires in the harness under the TIPM, then wiring in a separate fuel pump relay.

I just had a thought that if your truck had this recall done, the relay in the TIPM would be dead anyway and the remote relay would be the one that powers the fuel pump.

The add-on relay looks something like this and is attached to the side of the TIPM:

 

[Ken226]

The TIPM is currently out and I do have the ability to replace the relay, but it is testing fine.

HELP!

Unless you load tested the contactors in the relay, don't assume its fine because it clicked when you powered the control side. A relay can still open and close the contactors, yet have enough resistance in the contactor to not power a load properly. While it's pretty unlikely, it's possible that part of the contactor broke and stuck closed and the control side still works.

Here is a recent example that was the grand finale of a long, painful saga that was the result of shop towels getting sucked into the cylinder heads. It ended with a relay that worked (opened and closed the contactor on demand), but couldn't pass enough current to power the PCM:

No Crank. Never ending 2011 5.7L RAM issues

Yes, I can connect to Engine computer with Alpha. I can connect to Body Computer with alpha and do all kinds of stuff. I can connect to the RF Hub and I even programmed a key that will lock/Unlock the doors. I can retrieve the 4 digit PIN. I can poll the computer and get all kinds of information...

www.ramforum.com

If it's cheap and easy to replace, then that's an easy variable to factor out. Or, use a test light to test it so you can see that the contactor side still opens and closes under a load.

 

[K3lt3c]

We’ve since ruled out any issues with the relay in TIPM as it and all the others test and operate as designed. I do not have an external relay, the truck is still as it came from the factory.

The TIPM has been put back in and the truck operates 100% normal in all aspects, except when you turn it off the pump still runs. Pulling fuse 70 there is no voltage on the relay side (which is correct) but there is right at 5v present on the fuel pump side and the pump can be heard running slow in the tank.

I’m now leaning toward one of the fuel pump modules. In the schematics I’ve found (hopefully they’re correct) I see a fuel pump module and fuel pump control module, both. This is a push button start truck and there’s a chance that could be an issue, but I haven’t traced any wiring back to that yet.

Something is feeding 5v to the pump and it’s back-feeding to the main power wire that runs to the TIPM. I’m hoping someone has some insight, but for now I’ll keep digging as the single digit temps allow my fingers to work.

Thanks to all for the feedback thus far!

 

[GTyankee]

This MAY or may not be worth checking out

pump bypass.pdf

drive.google.com

excerpt from dodge forum

There is power at the M25 fuse with key off on the relay side. Fuse M33 only has power with the Key on.
I did not have a chance to check the wire at A40 in the C1 connector. I will have to locate it first.
Thanks for your help
......................

So far your diagnosis is looking like a stuck fuel pump relay, but confirming whether or not you have ground at A40 with the key off will further help confirm that's the case. You could also check pin 23 on connector C130 if you happen to know where that is, or pin C37 on connector C3 at the PCM if either of those connections are easier to get to.

Installing a Dodge fuel pump relay bypass for a faulty TIPM repair

TIPM fuel pump relay repairMopar part number CBWPR091AAAmazon Links to my commonly used tools:My test light: https://amzn.to/2VCYpakMy scan tool: https://amz...

www.youtube.com

i entered this in the search engine

Google Search

I then scrolled down to dodge forum

New Problem ( Fuel pump keeps running with the key out )​

to find the above results

Good Luck

 

[K3lt3c]

This MAY or may not be worth checking out

pump bypass.pdf

drive.google.com

excerpt from dodge forum

There is power at the M25 fuse with key off on the relay side. Fuse M33 only has power with the Key on.
I did not have a chance to check the wire at A40 in the C1 connector. I will have to locate it first.
Thanks for your help
......................

So far your diagnosis is looking like a stuck fuel pump relay, but confirming whether or not you have ground at A40 with the key off will further help confirm that's the case. You could also check pin 23 on connector C130 if you happen to know where that is, or pin C37 on connector C3 at the PCM if either of those connections are easier to get to.

Installing a Dodge fuel pump relay bypass for a faulty TIPM repair

TIPM fuel pump relay repairMopar part number CBWPR091AAAmazon Links to my commonly used tools:My test light: https://amzn.to/2VCYpakMy scan tool: https://amz...

www.youtube.com

i entered this in the search engine

Google Search

I then scrolled down to dodge forum

New Problem ( Fuel pump keeps running with the key out )​

to find the above results

Good Luck

Thanks, GT. That is the older style TIPM and there is ample info out there on much of what I'm experiencing. Unfortunately, for me, I have the newer style and there isn't much out there for it at this point.

My relay has been ruled out as the problem at this point, so I'm looking elsewhere. I'm trying to find info on the two fuel pump modules listed for my model year to see if one of them could be the problem, but I'm not having much luck yet. Once I'm able to figure it out I will make sure to share my findings.

 

[62Blazer]

Isn't the fuse after the relay? If that is true, then it shouldn't matter if the relay is stuck or not. If it was stuck on pulling the fuse will disconnect any power going to the fuel module.
What I suspect is happening is that the fuel level sensor circuit is back feeding into the fuel pump module. Not 100% sure in this application but it's pretty common for sensors to use a 5V reference voltage. If the connector was corroded or maybe the wires were rubbed through you could get that 5V reference voltage being fed into the actual pump. From the explanations so far this really makes sense. I would take a close look at the connector on the fuel pump and surrounding wiring. Wouldn't be surprised if you find the connector and wiring to be all corroded or damaged. Believe the fuel level sensor wiring goes to the BCM. If you could disconnect the sensor power wire somewhere and see if the fuel pump turns off, that would be a quick check.

 

[K3lt3c]

Well I found the issue. Oddly enough, @GTyankee posted a pic of the problem area back in May of 2022 and there was even a comment made about hoping the fuel pump wiring wasn’t in there…it is! The first two pics are from that post, the third pic is my truck/issue.

There was a thin layer of black tape/felt protecting the wires where they entered the upper side of the connector, but over time it has shifted down the wires allowing them to rub against the body until a couple wore through.

I’m now trying to figure out which connector this is so I can determine what the RED wire that shorted with the 12v fuel pump feed (DRK BLU/ORG) is. Anyone have any idea what the connector is called on this site (https://connectorrepairkit.mopar.com/) so I can look it up?

 

[EdGs]

Wow! That's crazy.

Excellent job sticking with it and finding the cause.

Hope you can get that area covered and insulated well for a lasting fix.

 

[Dusty]

We’ve since ruled out any issues with the relay in TIPM as it and all the others test and operate as designed. I do not have an external relay, the truck is still as it came from the factory.

The TIPM has been put back in and the truck operates 100% normal in all aspects, except when you turn it off the pump still runs. Pulling fuse 70 there is no voltage on the relay side (which is correct) but there is right at 5v present on the fuel pump side and the pump can be heard running slow in the tank.

I’m now leaning toward one of the fuel pump modules. In the schematics I’ve found (hopefully they’re correct) I see a fuel pump module and fuel pump control module, both. This is a push button start truck and there’s a chance that could be an issue, but I haven’t traced any wiring back to that yet.

Something is feeding 5v to the pump and it’s back-feeding to the main power wire that runs to the TIPM. I’m hoping someone has some insight, but for now I’ll keep digging as the single digit temps allow my fingers to work.

Thanks to all for the feedback thus far!

If you're getting 5volts out of the PCM when the key is off, you likely have a bad driver in the PCM (stuck on).

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 125398 miles.

 

[Ken226]

If you're getting 5volts out of the PCM when the key is off, you likely have a bad driver in the PCM (stuck on).

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 125398 miles.

You missed post #12 Dusty.

 

[Dusty]

You missed post #12 Dusty.

I sure did. Thanks for making me aware of it.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 125398 miles.

 

[Marshall]

I am just reading this day late, par for me, and was thinking to myself, sounds like he needs to check out wiring to the pump, I seen a video on a GM with same type of a problem, green wires in NY rust belt.
Some of you will remember who it is?

My old brain should make a chart of all the different codes for all the different stuff on these trucks, ie TIPM /fuse box, why the hell not call it fusebox? IBS , had to look that up.
Sorry ,getting side tracked again.

Good job on that, some days , a lift would be great, We had a pit made in Dads new 3 car garage/shop in 1959/60, but its always damp, cold and dark, too deep even with a heated shop.