2022 3500 HO - P2459 Dealer Replacing Rocker Arms

[Diller]

Just thought I would start a thread to track the issue I ran into with my 2022 HO 3500. I have noticed it has been doing frequent regens lately and it finally threw a code (P2459). No change in power or drivability. I took the truck into the dealer and the fix that is suggested was a PCM update and replace the rocker arms. Unfortunately, the checkout guy did not have a great understanding of the reason for this and the mechanics were gone so I don't have any additional information on if it is just the rockers or the rocker and lifters or something else. He said the mechanic said the valves were not completely opening. I would be really interested in what test was done to find that out but I haven't run across much information on the internets as to needing new rockers. I have seen some information on the issues with the hydraulic lifters but even that is limited. Parts are on order and should be heading back into the dealership next week. Hopefully to get more info as well.

Here is the background on the truck:
21,000 miles
Ordered from factory and delivered in May of 2022
First 8 months daily commute 120 miles round trip all interstate
Current daily commute around 60 miles of mixed city and interstate
Pulling a 5k-17K trailer on weekends
Oil Changes:
5K - Schaffers OTR 5W-40
15K - Schaffers OTR 5W-40
20K - Shell Rotella T6 5W-40
Oil analysis showing high aluminum and iron:

 

[06 Dodge]

Just thought I would start a thread to track the issue I ran into with my 2022 HO 3500. I have noticed it has been doing frequent regens lately and it finally threw a code (P2459). No change in power or drivability. I took the truck into the dealer and the fix that is suggested was a PCM update and replace the rocker arms. Unfortunately, the checkout guy did not have a great understanding of the reason for this and the mechanics were gone so I don't have any additional information on if it is just the rockers or the rocker and lifters or something else. He said the mechanic said the valves were not completely opening. I would be really interested in what test was done to find that out but I haven't run across much information on the internets as to needing new rockers. I have seen some information on the issues with the hydraulic lifters but even that is limited. Parts are on order and should be heading back into the dealership next week. Hopefully to get more info as well.

Here is the background on the truck:
21,000 miles
Ordered from factory and delivered in May of 2022
First 8 months daily commute 120 miles round trip all interstate
Current daily commute around 60 miles of mixed city and interstate
Pulling a 5k-17K trailer on weekends
Oil Changes:
5K - Schaffers OTR 5W-40
15K - Schaffers OTR 5W-40
20K - Shell Rotella T6 5W-40
Oil analysis showing high aluminum and iron:

View attachment 518605View attachment 518606

What does your paperwork from the dealer have to say about what's going on and or wrong, also what did the mechanic report to FCA say to get warranty approved for new parts & labor?

 

[Diller]

What does your paperwork from the dealer have to say about what's going on and or wrong, also what did the mechanic report to FCA say to get warranty approved for new parts & labor?

No paperwork available when I picked up the truck. All parts and labor covered under warrantee.

 

[06 Dodge]

No paperwork available when I picked up the truck. All parts and labor covered under warrantee.

That's strange, I have never not been given paperwork of some kind when I've had any of my vehicles worked on at an FCA dealership in the past 15 years including warranty work and I've always had to sign paperwork when I was given the keys...

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Wow high iron could be rocker arms, but why what are the symptoms and how is the oil pressure and is there allot of valve train noise, to replace the rockers arms should be a red flag, as there being 4 rockers per cylinder and adjustment for rocker clearance.

Side note is there a TSB out for this engine for the valve train or any engine component.

 

[Diller]

Oil pressure steady at 50-52psi while driving. No noticeable valve train noise or drivability issues. Almost seemed like the tech had seen this before and was being proactive?

 

[Fuel35 67]

What is the actual oil pressure? Don’t go by the algorithm that Ram is using. Put a real mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and see what’s actually happening.

 

[Diller]

What is the actual oil pressure? Don’t go by the algorithm that Ram is using. Put a real mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and see what’s actually happening.

My understanding is the pressure is an actual sensor. It’s the temperature that is a calculation.

 

[Fuel35 67]

Negative.

 

[BossHogg]

Something is strange here. The code was set because the ECU is detecting frequent DPF regenerations. This typically happens because the vehicle is lacking longer cruises to effectively run a regeneration cycle. Based on your reported typical drive cycles, this isn't the issue.

What else can cause this issue? I'm not seeing a connection between rocker arms and the high frequency of regens.

Have you made a recent modification under the hood?
Do you buy your fuel from the same location?

I can make some guesses;
Faulty sensors, MAF, pressure, NOX, inlet/outlet temperature sensor.
Faulty injector.
Bad fuel (try some Hot Shots Every Day Diesel), Hot Shots has an excellent and informative explanation as does Power Service on their websites that explain fuel/emission issues.

 

[Diller]

No modifications to the drivetrain. I use HSS EDT in every fill up since new. I get fuel from 2 or 3 different places. All at the "big rig" pumps.

I have a scan tool that I can get some data logs on however I am trying to avoid driving the truck until the work is complete.

Hopefully I'll have some more answers for what test was done and what was found in the next day or so from the technician.

 

[Scottly]

Something is strange here. The code was set because the ECU is detecting frequent DPF regenerations. This typically happens because the vehicle is lacking longer cruises to effectively run a regeneration cycle. Based on your reported typical drive cycles, this isn't the issue.

What else can cause this issue? I'm not seeing a connection between rocker arms and the high frequency of regens.

For the regen to occur, the exhaust has to develop a lot of heat. To do that, the injectors are fired an additional time so that raw fuel blows out into the exhaust. If the exhaust vales don't open enough, not enough of that fuel goes out. It explains the high aluminum content as the fuel remains in the cylinder and washes the oil off the cylinders and causes higher wear on the pistons.

This is all theory...YMMV

 

[BossHogg]

For the regen to occur, the exhaust has to develop a lot of heat. To do that, the injectors are fired an additional time so that raw fuel blows out into the exhaust. If the exhaust vales don't open enough, not enough of that fuel goes out. It explains the high aluminum content as the fuel remains in the cylinder and washes the oil off the cylinders and causes higher wear on the pistons.

This is all theory...YMMV

I'm anxious to hear the end cause. It seems to me if the rockers were the root cause, then wouldn't this issue be widespread?

I did some internet searches and it seems this issue is discussed a few times over several model years, but only on the HO version.

 

[crash68]

My understanding is the pressure is an actual sensor. It’s the temperature that is a calculation.

Unless something has changed on the Cummins within the last model year or two, both the oil temperature and pressure are calculated values. There is just a low oil pressure switch.
The EcoDiesel has the actual oil temperature but pressure is calculated.

 

[Diller]

Unless something has changed on the Cummins within the last model year or two, both the oil temperature and pressure are calculated values. There is just a low oil pressure switch.
The EcoDiesel has the actual oil temperature but pressure is calculated.

Learn something new every day.

I thought I would finally have a truck where I didn't need a set of analog gauges on the A pillar but I guess it may be on the way lol.

 

[Dusty]

That's strange, I have never not been given paperwork of some kind when I've had any of my vehicles worked on at an FCA dealership in the past 15 years including warranty work and I've always had to sign paperwork when I was given the keys...

You won't get a copy of the work order when the repair is continued for parts on order. The work order is given to the owner after the all work has been completed and closed out.

I believe the OP said they rescheduled it for awaiting parts.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 87707 miles.

 

[bigblock_doc]

There are only two rockers per cyl. with a bridge connecting two valves to one rocker.

 

[jacob302]

The truck is generating too much soot from the valves not opening properly and letting in enough air for the fuel (too rich).

The DPF can only process a certain amount of soot after that it needs to regen. Too much soot is what causes too frequent regen which causes a code to be set even if driven mostly on the highway. The rich air : fuel mix could be due to the rocker arm wearing a hole where the push rods touch it and as a result the rocker arms not pushing on the valve sufficiently to open it as long or wide as it should. That is why your Iron is too high in the oil (rocker arm wear out). Your AL is high because the Iron shavings are circulating in the engine before it reaches the filter and causing abrasive wear of the softer AL components. The PCM update could be to modulate the EGR to be less aggressive and add less EGR into the oil.

I hope the rocker arm change out corrects this issue permanently. There are no good options for a diesel motor in a 3/4 ton+ truck than a Cummins ISB 6.7. This is my humble engineering opinion. I may be wrong.

 

[Diller]

The truck is generating too much soot from the valves not opening properly and letting in enough air for the fuel (too rich).

The DPF can only process a certain amount of soot after that it needs to regen. Too much soot is what causes too frequent regen which causes a code to be set even if driven mostly on the highway. The rich air : fuel mix could be due to the rocker arm wearing a hole where the push rods touch it and as a result the rocker arms not pushing on the valve sufficiently to open it as long or wide as it should. That is why your Iron is too high in the oil (rocker arm wear out). Your AL is high because the Iron shavings are circulating in the engine before it reaches the filter and causing abrasive wear of the softer AL components. The PCM update could be to modulate the EGR to be less aggressive and add less EGR into the oil.

I hope the rocker arm change out corrects this issue permanently. There are no good options for a diesel motor in a 3/4 ton+ truck than a Cummins ISB 6.7. This is my humble engineering opinion. I may be wrong.

Makes as much sense as any theory I have. The next question I will have is what would cause the rockers to wear so quickly in 20K miles? Is there an update to the rockers that would prevent the wear or is there another defective component that lead to this (plugged oil passage)?

Looks like the parts are scheduled to be in Monday at this point so hopefully the truck will get in the shop early next week.

 

[jacob302]

What is the actual build date of the truck ? You mentioned it was delivered in May 22, build must be a few months prior.