6.4l cam swap problem

[tunedlaramie]

I'd think they should be okay,Manleys parts are pretty decent. I'm running Trends pushrods in mine and they've held up well for the last couple years

So I would be better off going with the manleys then staying stock? I did order manley stainless steel valves by the way. I'm fed up with constantly having to pull the engine apart.

 

[Wild one]

So I would be better off going with the manleys then staying stock? I did order manley stainless steel valves by the way. I'm fed up with constantly having to pull the engine apart.

I know a few guys are using the Manley's and I haven't heard anybody ******** about them,so if you can swing them in your budget,they probably wouldn't hurt.

 

[tunedlaramie]

I know a few guys are using the Manley's and I haven't heard anybody ******** about them,so if you can swing them in your budget,they probably wouldn't hurt.

Well at this point I don't want to try and go as cheap as possible.

Anyway what I have in cart are mopar performance valve springs, oem retainers and manley pushrods. With a total of $300 after tax and shipping. And I already have manley valves on the way which cost almost $300 and the cylinder head will also need to be replaced. The last one cost around $130 used. All in all I will be spending about $730 in parts. Will I need any other parts to make this work?

 

[Dusty]

I tried using the stock springs and I bent a valve a few minutes after they finished logging after the tune. They would work but not for 6300ish rpm I'm running at.

As for the mopar performance springs, if they will keep my truck from breaking down, I'm gonna getting them. They can't be more expensive than a broken valve stem, bent pushrod and destroyed cylinder head.

Right now all I want is that truck to be reliable again.

By any chance are you still using the original cam phaser?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 028129 miles.

 

[tunedlaramie]

By any chance are you still using the original cam phaser?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 028129 miles.

Yes, is that a problem?

 

[tunedlaramie]

Yes, is that a problem?

Will I need to use a different cam phaser?

 

[Dusty]

Will I need to use a different cam phaser?

I believe you stated earlier that you broke a valve (valve guide?) as soon as the engine turned over the first time. If the cam phaser is defective (not returned to zero point, or stuck when you set the timing), it could have allowed the cam to be positioned incorrectly when you installed the timing chain.

Cam phaser issues were not uncommon in your year 5.7.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 028177 miles.

 

[tunedlaramie]

I believe you stated earlier that you broke a valve (valve guide?) as soon as the engine turned over the first time. If the cam phaser is defective (not returned to zero point, or stuck when you set the timing), it could have allowed the cam to be positioned incorrectly when you installed the timing chain.

Cam phaser issues were not uncommon in your year 5.7.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 028177 miles.

Sorry if I wasn't quite clear earlier. The first time I had a valve problem was when I still used 5.7 springs. It happened after a few pulls at high rpm after the tune. I believe that the springs where not strong enough for the cam and high rpm.

Anyway, a few days ago I asked my mechanic about the cam phaser and if I would need a different one and he said that there would be engine codes if there was a problem which there weren't right until I started flashing.

But can it randomly fail while driving? These last few times I could always drive between 1-3 months in between break downs. And the incidents where the valve stem broke both happened at low rpm (around 2000 rpm).

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[tunedlaramie]

By this,it looks like you might be running into coil bind,but that usually bends pushrods ,and by the sounds of it,your breaking the valve stems at the keepers.Might be time to give up on that combination after breaking a couple valve stems in a row,you gotta be getting tired of tearing it down by now,lol.These springs need to be shimmed to work in a 6.4,which leads a guy to think the stock 6.4 springs are to long and you're stacking the spring coils till you hit coil bind.

https://moparonlineparts.com/dodge-charger-mopar-performance-valve-springs-p-7475.html

I was thinking about all of this again. Anyway if the valve springs hit coil bind, would it break the valve stem? And why does it always happen on the same piston. It can't be the cylinder head cause that was replaced. Is it possible that the camshaft is defective?

I just find that very weird.

 

[burner71]

How do the valve seats look?
Maybe that cylinder is somewhat dropping the seat.

 

[tunedlaramie]

How do the valve seats look?
Maybe that cylinder is somewhat dropping the seat.

Wouldn't they have replaced them when they replaced the cylinder head? Or do they reuse them?

 

[Wild one]

Yeah I'm starting to get really tired of seeing that check engine light starting to flash. Last year my truck was in the shop 4 times total. First time was the lifter problem, second was a bent valve. And these last Two broken valve stems. Anyway these springs will work in my 09 hemi? Just asking cause it says gen 3 hemi.

I managed to upload pics of the carnage. The pushrod was also bent. Forgot to mention that before.

View attachment 191523 View attachment 191524 View attachment 191525 View attachment 191527

Ouch you do have a bit of carnage. I'm running the Mopar springs with my 1.5HL Greene cam and shifting at 6600 rpm with no issues,but I have no idea how the 6.4 cam and Jays cam would compare as far as lift and duration go

 

[tunedlaramie]

By this,it looks like you might be running into coil bind,but that usually bends pushrods ,and by the sounds of it,your breaking the valve stems at the keepers.Might be time to give up on that combination after breaking a couple valve stems in a row,you gotta be getting tired of tearing it down by now,lol.These springs need to be shimmed to work in a 6.4,which leads a guy to think the stock 6.4 springs are to long and you're stacking the spring coils till you hit coil bind.

https://moparonlineparts.com/dodge-charger-mopar-performance-valve-springs-p-7475.html

Hey what's up, the mechanic called me today and said that they had finished putting my truck together and that it seems to be running fine. They just noticed that the alternator didn't work right so after they fix that it should be good to go.


Also these mopar performance springs should fit right in, correct? Cause the 6.4 springs were loose on the seat and so the moved around alot. These mopar performance fit better but they still have a little bit of play on the seat. Is that ok?

 

[Wild one]

Hey what's up, the mechanic called me today and said that they had finished putting my truck together and that it seems to be running fine. They just noticed that the alternator didn't work right so after they fix that it should be good to go.


Also these mopar performance springs should fit right in, correct? Cause the 6.4 springs were loose on the seat and so the moved around alot. These mopar performance fit better but they still have a little bit of play on the seat. Is that ok?

There shouldn't be any play in the springs on the seat,if the retainers and keepers are installed properly.I'm starting to wonder about the shop doing your work for you,you might want to find a differant shop,as they've either sunk the valves into the seats or the wrong length valves somehow got installed.If the springs are loose on the seats with the retainers installed and they're telling you it's okay,they're blowing smoke up your ass,as there has to be tension on the retainers from the springs to keep the keepers seated,or else there's a chance you'll lose the keepers,and that leads to instant valve drop,and you're back to square one,spending a bunch more money.There should be a fair bit of pressure on the springs and retainers even if the rocker shaft is off the head.For the amount of money you've spent,why don't you do it right and buy a complete cam kit from somebody like Matt Fikac/Moes or Jay Greene or John Smith at Texas Speed,you're mickey mousing it together,and it's just costing you more money and time in the long run

 

[Tim Garceau]

Sorry for your losses, especially the low to mid range torque when using that cam. This road has been down many times before unfortunately.

You could’ve put in a real performance cam with the labor by now. Best of luck to you.

 

[tunedlaramie]

There shouldn't be any play in the springs on the seat,if the retainers and keepers are installed properly.I'm starting to wonder about the shop doing your work for you,you might want to find a differant shop,as they've either sunk the valves into the seats or the wrong length valves somehow got installed.If the springs are loose on the seats with the retainers installed and they're telling you it's okay,they're blowing smoke up your ass,as there has to be tension on the retainers from the springs to keep the keepers seated,or else there's a chance you'll lose the keepers,and that leads to instant valve drop,and you're back to square one,spending a bunch more money.There should be a fair bit of pressure on the springs and retainers even if the rocker shaft is off the head.For the amount of money you've spent,why don't you do it right and buy a complete cam kit from somebody like Matt Fikac/Moes or Jay Greene or John Smith at Texas Speed,you're mickey mousing it together,and it's just costing you more money and time in the long run

Ok, how about before they are installed. Like when I delivered them the parts we went and just tried with one of the new springs without retainers or anything. We just held them in the spot where they are supposed to go and checked to see if there would be any play or if they would fit better then the 6.4 springs. Also what kind of parts are there supposed to be at the bottom of the spring? There was only something like a flat metal washer underneath the spring. I think that I might be a bit mixed up with all the part names. Anyway by spring seat I meant the part on which the spring sits in the head( not sure if I got that right).

Anyway don't know if the parts where correct last time(except for the 6.4 springs which was my mistake) but this time I ordered most of the parts myself. Like the manley valves, mopar performance and also new oem 5.7 retainers.

Are there any parts that I'm unaware of that are supposed to go in the spring area?

Also what are keepers?

 

[Wild one]

Ok, how about before they are installed. Like when I delivered them the parts we went and just tried with one of the new springs without retainers or anything. We just held them in the spot where they are supposed to go and checked to see if there would be any play or if they would fit better then the 6.4 springs. Also what kind of parts are there supposed to be at the bottom of the spring? There was only something like a flat metal washer underneath the spring. I think that I might be a bit mixed up with all the part names. Anyway by spring seat I meant the part on which the spring sits in the head( not sure if I got that right).

Anyway don't know if the parts where correct last time(except for the 6.4 springs which was my mistake) but this time I ordered most of the parts myself. Like the manley valves, mopar performance and also new oem 5.7 retainers.

Are there any parts that I'm unaware of that are supposed to go in the spring area?

Also what are keepers?

Okay I got what you're saying,i thought you meant they were loose on the seats with the retainers installed,they will have some wiggle room if you're checking them loose with-out the retainers installed.The keepers are the little half moon shaped things that install on the ends of the valves to keep the valve spring retainer in place. You're probably okay now.

 

[tunedlaramie]

Okay I got what you're saying,i thought you meant they were loose on the seats with the retainers installed,they will have some wiggle room if you're checking them loose with-out the retainers installed.The keepers are the little half moon shaped things that install on the ends of the valves to keep the valve spring retainer in place. You're probably okay now.

Yeah I probably should have been clearer about what I meant.
Anyway I hope that it holds up this time. I did end up swapping the cam back to a new oem 5.7. I just don't have enough money for another expensive repair. Luckily with the upgraded parts that I have now it makes cam swaps easier if I do decide to try another cam. I would probably go with a performance cam next time though.

The mechanic just said that the only explanation he had was the springs. It is still weird that both times were on the same piston, even though this was a different head.

All I know is the valve stem must have been under a lot of pressure in order to break.

I'm just glad that the piston and cylinder didn't receive any damage.

 

[Littlecrazy]

Can someone please do a parts list to do a 6.4 cam swap in a 5.7 with MSD delete. I have a failing cam and want to get the swap done ASAP. I already have headers, intake and tune.

 

[burner71]

Can someone please do a parts list to do a 6.4 cam swap in a 5.7 with MSD delete. I have a failing cam and want to get the swap done ASAP. I already have headers, intake and tune.

There not alot really at least for me it wasnt as my truck doesnt have MDS.

You just need the 4 MDS hole plugs.
I used the 6.4 MDS truck cam.
A set of NON-MDS lifters.
Mopar performance springs.