8HP70 Transmission and Seafoam Hydra Trans Tune

[PoMansRam]

@PoMansRam, where can I order the filter kit for $60? I was looking at a replacement made by Dorman, but it was twice the price.

Now that I started digging into this, can anyone confirm if the 8hp70 and 8hp45 pans are the same? (hemi vs pentastar 8spd)

Some aftermarket pan kits seem to support they are. Others, not so much. Reason I say this is there are countless aftermarket pan kits available online for Ram, Jeep and Chrysler 3.6L 8spds in the $40-70 range, yet you don't see many, if any for the 8hp70 hemis.

This link suggests the 8hp45 and 8hp70 pans are the same: https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-2013-2...AOSwq1ld9GS5:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!14170!US!-1

 

[Tim Garceau]

All ZF 8 pans are the same...

Mopar literally charges more for 8HP70+ pans vs 845/50RE, it's all a scam that most will continue to bend over for.

attached the $45 pan I swapped with the number Legible, stated it also fit the 8hp45 obviously.

Quick comment on the fits all fluid, same reason we have a full synthetic capable of 0w-40. See any semi-synthetic oils advertised as a 0w-40, because it’s not possible with organic.



Running Amazon basics in the engine pan, Amsoil SS red in the 44-44 transfer case, Valvoline in the F/R diffs, and now Amsoil SS blue/Valvoline ML in the trans. If this thing doesn't self destruct soon I might have to leave the forums because there will be nothing left to talk about.

 

[Wild one]

All ZF 8 pans are the same...





Quick comment on the fits all fluid, same reason we have a full synthetic capable of 0w-40.

View attachment 212159

Point me where there's any internal clutches and their corresponding steel plates in an engine Tim.I've been around for many years and have been inside more then a few engines,and i'll be damned if I've ever seen any internal clutches inside the actual engine. Good post about the tranny pans though.FYI for you an engine and a transmission are 2 totally different entities and "are not" similar in respect to the fluids used to lubricate their internal moving parts,so don't be putting cheap engine oil in your transmission,just because you've found it to be even cheaper then the tranny fluid sitting beside it on the store shelves. Squeak/squeak here comes Tim and his cheap ass,just giving ya a hard time,but you sure seem to be a cheap-ass to me,lol.

 

[PoMansRam]

Tim, I see that now in regards to the pan kits... and thanks for the confirmation.

8hp45, 70 and 90 pans are the same. Pretty funny some sources charge more for the 70 pan when you can get an 8hp45 kit for as little as $40 some places. LOL. At least we know now and can help people out on this.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Value per dollar is all that matters to me in fully re-engineering this dud from Fiat, and it ain't in lubrication/cooling for 99.9 percent of this forum.

 

[Tim Garceau]

@Wild one

Rick,
Do you know this Brian at BND automotive, wondering what happened to his atf fluid? Also are there really any reports of Valvoline MaxLife, Redline d6, or Amsoil SS Blue cap swapped customers complaining on facebook or social media? Strictly curious...

https://www.chargerforums.com/threads/zf-8-speed-transmission-fluid-change.382833/

 

[Wild one]

@Wild one

Rick,
Do you know this Brian at BND automotive, wondering what happened to his atf fluid? Also are really any reports of Valvoline MaxLife, Redline d6, or Amsoil SS Blue cap swapped customers complaining on facebook or social media? Strictly curious...

https://www.chargerforums.com/threads/zf-8-speed-transmission-fluid-change.382833/

Never heard of him,but that was an interesting read all 5 pages of it,lol. He never did answer the question about standing behind a warrenty claim if FCA says no though,which makes me kind of question his ethics. I actually haven't seen anybody claim the alternative fluids have actually cooked a ZF,all I've seen is a couple high end tuners saying they are observing slip between input and output shaft rpms when using the lower cost alternatives on a higher horse build. As I've stated before on a stock truck you're probably fine with the cheaper alternatives but it's a big roll of the dice if you ever do need warrenty work.I wouldn't put it past FCA to deny an engine warrenty claim because the transmission had an alternate fluid in it,then it's up to you to hire lawyers to fight them on an engine claim. In all honesty most trucks are almost past their warrenty by the time the owner does do a transmission fluid swap,so the warrenty issue in a lot of cases would be a moot point anyways Tim.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Jimmy Valvano

 

[TheEnder]

It has never been changed.

This is your issue then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scuba2000]

This is kind of a pet peeve of mine,but if you're going to promote a product, put up a damn link to said product. Heres a link to the PPE 8 speed transmission pan for you Yankee's.

https://www.ppediesel.com/shop/heavy-duty-aluminum-transmission-pan-ram-1500.html

Google isn't hard to use................Easy there Grumpy Old Man.

 

[Wild one]

@Wild one

Rick,
Do you know this Brian at BND automotive, wondering what happened to his atf fluid? Also are there really any reports of Valvoline MaxLife, Redline d6, or Amsoil SS Blue cap swapped customers complaining on facebook or social media? Strictly curious...

https://www.chargerforums.com/threads/zf-8-speed-transmission-fluid-change.382833/

Did you see this in that thread Tim. Looks like Mr Brian is claiming the alternative fluids besides his own fluid might be a contributing factor to clutch delamination in the 8 speeds. This is the first time I've heard anything about other fluids contributing to delamination or seal failure.



#65 • Mar 12, 2019
RitzRT said:
I just noticed that Valvoline's MaxLife synthetic ATF also claims to be compatible with ZF LifeGuard 8 fluid.

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/automatic-transmission-products/maxlife-multi-vehicle-atf

Product info sheet:

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

Gallon jugs available at Walmart for under $20.

Best,
Yes, Valvoline Max Life has been out for a long time and some people have used it as a cheap alternative to the OEM fluids. Compatible isn't certified for. Amsoil is compatible too and they have the same problems. Flex fuel vehicles can run E85 but there is a difference between what you can do and what you should do!

However, it is not known about the delamination issues with the clutches and the seal problems that it promotes in the system after a while.

(Delamination is a mode of failure for composite materials and steel. In laminated materials, repeated cyclic stresses, impact, and so on can cause layers to separate, forming a mica-like structure of separate layers, with significant loss of mechanical toughness.)

Many people that have used the Maxlife have told me about having the transmission refreshed and coming to us to get our QB ZF ATF Racing Fluid and telling me to warn other about it since I have a much larger voice on these matters.

Have at it Ritz!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC:driving:

 

[Wild one]

Google isn't hard to use................Easy there Grumpy Old Man.

6 pages of a thread on transmission fluid,and that's all you have to contribute to a thread,man are you ever smart,lol

 

[Wild one]

Jimmy Valvano

View attachment 212330

Those instructions relate to the cars Tim,the transmissions in the cars sits virtually level ,while the trucks angle the transmission down towards the rear of the trucks. To get a level transmission pan rail in the trucks entails jacking the rear of the truck up in the air a fair bit. The trucks are one of the very few vehicles the 8 speed is in that still uses an independent solid rear axle so the tranny faces downhill in the trucks in comparision to the cars which use a solid mounted diff and independent axles. Find a late model Charger or Challenger in a lot somewhere with the 8 speed and look at how the transmission sits in it,then look at how the tranny sits in your truck,you'll see there's a fair bit of difference in the tranny angles. ZF is very specific in their instructions about leveling the transmissions pan rail in the trucks to get a proper fluid level reading at the fill plug. If you check the level with the truck sitting with all 4 wheels on the ground you'll be down on fluid. Guys have already discovered they need to level the pan rail to get the same amount of fluid back into the transmission as they've drained out , when they've done a drain / measure and refill on the tranny. The instructions that Stuart posted for me,are the instructions that ZF sends with a brand new transmission,but you seem to have a hard time accepting their instructions. I would hazard a guess if anybody should know about the transmission, it just might be the outfit that builds said transmission,lol

 

[16RamHemi]

I'm really kicking myself for not remembering when my trans started to slip. I bought the truck at the beginning of January 2019. Dropped pan and refilled with redline that June/July. I don't remember it slipping before the swap, but I cannot say for sure it wasn't. 3 weeks ago I drained fluid and refilled with Mopar. The were colorful sparkles in that fluid. After putting in new Mopar fluid it felt better. Was still there but less so. Now it's kinda back to where it was. Really low rpms in 2nd I have very little power. To where I will just stop and shift to first. Again, higher rpms it grabs right away, no slip. I'm going to do another drain and fill with Mopar in a week or 2.

Could it all be coincidence or did redline d6 cause what I'm experiencing. No idea.

 

[Tim Garceau]

I assume your ‘16 has the 8 speed. Interesting, how many quarts of d6 did yours take?

I’ll level the pan tomorrow and see if it’ll take anymore using Rick’s “Truck” method as I only lifted the rear back to OEM rake. All online videos for Ram leave them on the floor so I’m curious how much original fluid they aren’t getting in. Problem with the chambered fill is it spits some back out and you don’t know how much is accurately ingested.

 

[16RamHemi]

I assume your ‘16 has the 8 speed. Interesting, how many quarts of d6 did yours take?

I’ll level the pan tomorrow and see if it’ll take anymore using Rick’s “Truck” method as I only lifted the rear back to OEM rake. All online videos for Ram leave them on the floor so I’m curious how much original fluid they aren’t getting in. Problem with the chambered fill is it spits some back out and you don’t know how much is accurately ingested.

Current truck is a 14 with 8hp70. So when I changed it last summer I purchase 2 gallons from Nick. I lifted rear to level trans. Dropped pan, let trans drip for a bit. Put new pan on and pumped one of the gallons. Fluid came out a bit So i stopped. Got truck back on the ground and drove it to get up to 185 to open bpv. Came home and parked on a spot in my driveway that was down hill on 2x6 and trans was level. Waited to the trans to come down below the 122 and checked it again. Fluid started to run out so I put plug back in. Couldn't see how it would be over filled. Drove it like that for a while until a point where I wanted to see what was up. In my head I thought I must have too much fluid. Ended up booking up with my mechanic and checking it. I was low. No idea what happened. Added redline to fill and went from there. It was a little better but slip still there. At that point I was getting recommendations to switch to stock or Mopar. So I did a drain and fill with Mopar.

I'll do one more drain and fill with Mopar. Last time it only took around 3.5 qts using the pan drain plug Atp pan). I'll see how the metals are over 1000 miles. I got something going on. At this point I plan to start saving up for the 4500 reman trans unless I trade it before it goes in a year or so.

I know the big discrepancy is with checking the cooler lines, as they could be empty when you fill so once the bpv opens it could cause a low condition. A couple sources out there discuss this and to drive it up to the 185 or so and then check again. I think i messed up by not letting the truck cool below 80 and then checking again vs the 122 that I waited for. So fluid was expanded when I checked it. But also possibly the cooler lines drained back into pan making it seem full when it was low. No idea.

 

[Wild one]

I assume your ‘16 has the 8 speed. Interesting, how many quarts of d6 did yours take?

I’ll level the pan tomorrow and see if it’ll take anymore using Rick’s “Truck” method as I only lifted the rear back to OEM rake. All online videos for Ram leave them on the floor so I’m curious how much original fluid they aren’t getting in. Problem with the chambered fill is it spits some back out and you don’t know how much is accurately ingested.

You need the rear tires in the air to do a proper check anyways,only way the truck will shift into 2nd when you slowly accelerate it and hold for 5 seconds.

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/2017-8-speed-transmission.143008/page-3#post-2029422

 

[Tim Garceau]

Don’t know how much the thermal bypass contains, but had tip her ass over tea kettle pretty good to get another half quart in.

Either way I’d recommend double-checking the fill following the pan/fluid swap after a few driving cycles. Leveling the rail is the most logical procedure IMO, but all local dealers said they leave the trucks level on the lift which is concerning for what you will pay.

 

[chrisbh17]

Don’t know how much the thermal bypass contains, but had tip her ass over tea kettle pretty good to get another half quart in.

Either way I’d recommend double-checking the fill following the pan/fluid swap after a few driving cycles. Leveling the rail is the most logical procedure IMO, but all local dealers said they leave the trucks level on the lift which is concerning for what you will pay.

This.

I don't mind paying for the service but I don't trust the dealers to do the job correctly.

Sure it's possible I could get them to cover any issues down the road (most likely not but I can dream) but there would still be the whole having to deal with fighting and inconvenience to prove it was their fault and get it fixed.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Wild one]

Don’t know how much the thermal bypass contains, but had tip her ass over tea kettle pretty good to get another half quart in.

Either way I’d recommend double-checking the fill following the pan/fluid swap after a few driving cycles. Leveling the rail is the most logical procedure IMO, but all local dealers said they leave the trucks level on the lift which is concerning for what you will pay.

The majority of instructions that seem to be floating around ,are related to the cars ,where the transmission sits level in the chassis,and most guys don't realize the trannies in the trucks run downhill.I'm slowly getting alot of guys to believe me about having to level the transmission pan rail in the trucks,but's it's been an uphill battle,lol. I've plastered those instructions on as many facebook pages as i can,and they're slowly starting to be adopted by most guys.You need the rear tires off the ground anyways to do a proper level check,as you need to have the truck shift up to 2nd for one part of the procedure,and unless you do one hell've brake stand on your driveway,it isn't shifting into 2nd with the tires on the ground while sitting in one spot,lol