AGM VS OEM VS LEAD CELL

[turkeybird56]

AGM for my hemi, lithium for the motorcycles where weight matters. The Walmart AGM is not that bad $$$.

Got a Trike, weight is Irrelevant. NO way I would do lithium anything on vehicles. Too much Lithium based stuff going p o o f, but that is just my take on all this battery craze.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Definitely has IBS, 2019 5th Gen 1500 Bighorn. NO not fail, but when the original battery was replaced with the 1st AGM, I had no knowledge of what/whateva the IBS done, so the charging rate was incorrect for the new battery. Did it kill it: doubt it. But with the new info: I was able to learn about it and "reset" it. Funny how sometimes U neva know about stuff till afta the fact: hate dat chit.

Wait, what? What is the point of a battery sensor if it doesn't sense the battery?

I replaced my OEM flooded wet cell battery with an AGM, are you saying my 2017 4th Gen Ram charging rate is also incorrect (too high) for an AGM battery?

How does one "reset" an IBS?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, Lithium is an entirely different charging regime, also.

 

[turkeybird56]

Wait, what? What is the point of a battery sensor if it doesn't sense the battery?

I replaced my OEM flooded wet cell battery with an AGM, are you saying my 2017 4th Gen Ram charging rate is also incorrect (too high) for an AGM battery?

How does one "reset" an IBS?

NO, nothing ref charging rate per se. The IBS integrates with like 4 modules, to include telling SOC of battery, temperature, load requirements, and passes this info to TIPM part (not sure which modules, that is beyond me), so the TIPM "tells" the alternator system the needed charging rate. When U put in new battery, all the info stored and communication with IBS is set in to whateva the old battery had/needed, not the new battery, so hence the "reset". A lot of brands, like BMW, Mercedes, even some Fords, U actually have to hook up to OBD and reset. On Rams, a lil different, IBS just needs to be off battery 2-4 hours (This according to tech).

ADDED: PLS, nobody beat me up. Just relating what was told by tech, and no, he was not hitting me with a smoke b o m b.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Did you do the Big 3 wiring upgrade.If not,it makes quite a differance.

Big 3 upgrade adds power?

Hey guys, just put some wire together and installed my big 3 upgrade. Today I went for a ride and it felt like there was a very noticeable increase in power. Truck just pulls harder and smoother now... Is this just in my head or does the big 3 upgrade actually help with performance?

www.ramforum.com

I've not, yet..but I will be doing this!
Thanks for the info (and reminder, too).
I had a full aftermarket grounding kit on my Acura TypeS and 300SRT8 back in the day and it appreciably helped the electrical system in each vehicle.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I've not, yet..but I will be doing this!
Thanks for the info (and reminder, too).
I had a full aftermarket grounding kit on my Acura TypeS and 300SRT8 back in the day and it appreciably helped the electrical system in each vehicle.

Check your stock power cable size 1st - turns out mine are 4/0 already, but I got a Heavy Duty 2500 and 6.4 Hemi.

I plant to check the routings this spring, however, to make sure they did the grounds correctly and didn't cheap out with not enough ground paths.

 

[HEMIMANN]

NO, nothing ref charging rate per se. The IBS integrates with like 4 modules, to include telling SOC of battery, temperature, load requirements, and passes this info to TIPM part (not sure which modules, that is beyond me), so the TIPM "tells" the alternator system the needed charging rate. When U put in new battery, all the info stored and communication with IBS is set in to whateva the old battery had/needed, not the new battery, so hence the "reset". A lot of brands, like BMW, Mercedes, even some Fords, U actually have to hook up to OBD and reset. On Rams, a lil different, IBS just needs to be off battery 2-4 hours (This according to tech).

ADDED: PLS, nobody beat me up. Just relating what was told by tech, and no, he was not hitting me with a smoke b o m b.

JFC, Boird - you're a closet genius after all.

Well, I don't wanna have factory flash my ECM cause I got a tune bolted to it.
Tech seems to imply if you depower for hours the ECM goes into re-learn - can't believe it would just relearn the IBS part?

I wonder if my bolt on ECM tune would freak out?

 

[Overlander]

I've ran a lot of AGM batteries over the years, mostly as 'house' batteries for overland setups back before Lithium became economical and mainstream.

In my experience there's no advantage in AGM for a starting battery. Lead acid does a great job of delivering high current quickly and is the charging profile setup for OEM alternators. You will not charge an AGM correctly unless you have a DCDC system (i.e. RedArc) between the alternator and the battery, it's a different charging profile.

AGM's do have the advantage of being sealed and can work well in deep cycling applications like with running a trolling motor for long periods. But they don't make the best starting batteries. I know Optima has their different colors for different aplications, but Optima also has quality problems since they moved their manufacturing out of country.

IMO, the problem with lead acid isn't the battery type, it's the quality of battery chosen. The Ram vendor isn't the best. Go with something like a Napa Legend and you'll be happy. But no need to spend extra on the AGM for starting.

 

[Timsdually]

Been running AGM batteries in my diesel for about 8 years. Optima redtops are the way to go in my opinion. Truck starts every time. Once the factory baytery goes in my hemi I'll put that in it too

I haven't read all 6 pages.
I have two Mercedes that are two battery systems. One is for starting, and that's basically it. The other is a "systems" battery that is for all other functions. They are notorious for killing "systems" batteries if they aren't driven every day. On one when it went bad I bought the top of the line AutoZone battery. The thing didn't last 3 months. They replaced it, and that one went bad in a month. I am on my third one in a year. I decided when the second car needed it's systems battery replaced to get an Optima Yellow Top. I was only about $80 more than the AutoZone's. No problems, and it is a year old now.

I might add, both these cars are on battery maintainers.

 

[turkeybird56]

JFC, Boird - you're a closet genius after all.

Well, I don't wanna have factory flash my ECM cause I got a tune bolted to it.
Tech seems to imply if you depower for hours the ECM goes into re-learn - can't believe it would just relearn the IBS part?

I wonder if my bolt on ECM tune would freak out?

Now dat I cannot help u on. Don’t u guys that do tunes and such have back ups for all yer tunes installed?

FYI I am a lot of things but:
1). Boird not live in closet nor have ever used except to store stuff and hang coats, lol
2). Definitely not genius kinda sorta make believe JOAT lmao

 

[turkeybird56]

I haven't read all 6 pages.
I have two Mercedes that are two battery systems. One is for starting, and that's basically it. The other is a "systems" battery that is for all other functions. They are notorious for killing "systems" batteries if they aren't driven every day. On one when it went bad I bought the top of the line AutoZone battery. The thing didn't last 3 months. They replaced it, and that one went bad in a month. I am on my third one in a year. I decided when the second car needed it's systems battery replaced to get an Optima Yellow Top. I was only about $80 more than the AutoZone's. No problems, and it is a year old now.

I might add, both these cars are on battery maintainers.

Dang RAMS almost as bad. Even with straight vvt no e junkies I find if I let sit long time rolling the dice ref battery maintaining charge. I drive so little am thinking of installing NOCO maintainer lol.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Check your stock power cable size 1st - turns out mine are 4/0 already, but I got a Heavy Duty 2500 and 6.4 Hemi.

I plant to check the routings this spring, however, to make sure they did the grounds correctly and didn't cheap out with not enough ground paths.

can't have too many proper grounds for clean electrical

 

[HEMIMANN]

I've ran a lot of AGM batteries over the years, mostly as 'house' batteries for overland setups back before Lithium became economical and mainstream.

In my experience there's no advantage in AGM for a starting battery. Lead acid does a great job of delivering high current quickly and is the charging profile setup for OEM alternators. You will not charge an AGM correctly unless you have a DCDC system (i.e. RedArc) between the alternator and the battery, it's a different charging profile.

AGM's do have the advantage of being sealed and can work well in deep cycling applications like with running a trolling motor for long periods. But they don't make the best starting batteries. I know Optima has their different colors for different aplications, but Optima also has quality problems since they moved their manufacturing out of country.

IMO, the problem with lead acid isn't the battery type, it's the quality of battery chosen. The Ram vendor isn't the best. Go with something like a Napa Legend and you'll be happy. But no need to spend extra on the AGM for starting.

But see, what we're discussing today is vehicle batteries are way more than just starting batteries now. With scads of electronics, many that continue running in sleep mode, a tough battery that can take nonstop draw without draining excessively is critical now.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I haven't read all 6 pages.
I have two Mercedes that are two battery systems. One is for starting, and that's basically it. The other is a "systems" battery that is for all other functions. They are notorious for killing "systems" batteries if they aren't driven every day. On one when it went bad I bought the top of the line AutoZone battery. The thing didn't last 3 months. They replaced it, and that one went bad in a month. I am on my third one in a year. I decided when the second car needed it's systems battery replaced to get an Optima Yellow Top. I was only about $80 more than the AutoZone's. No problems, and it is a year old now.

I might add, both these cars are on battery maintainers.

+1

In addition to changing to AGM, I also use a maintainer when I'm not driving often.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Now dat I cannot help u on. Don’t u guys that do tunes and such have back ups for all yer tunes installed?

FYI I am a lot of things but:
1). Boird not live in closet nor have ever used except to store stuff and hang coats, lol
2). Definitely not genius kinda sorta make believe JOAT lmao

Well yes, BUT - esp. for us older guys, tuning once was a royal PITA for me, and I don't wanna have to re-do it.

I'll ask my sons - maybe they know. A bunch of guys here might know, but I'd asked long ago about whether 2017 MY had a smart battery sensor and got zero responses.

You are the first guy to tell me it does NOT.

 

[BLUEDERANGO]

With these "new" computer driven vehicles I have found the AGMs are far superior to the older Battery's..
if you are a COSCO member the have really good prices on INTERSTATE AGMs..

 

[turkeybird56]

Well yes, BUT - esp. for us older guys, tuning once was a royal PITA for me, and I don't wanna have to re-do it.

I'll ask my sons - maybe they know. A bunch of guys here might know, but I'd asked long ago about whether 2017 MY had a smart battery sensor and got zero responses.

You are the first guy to tell me it does NOT.

Did not say U did not have, U got it reversed reading something. Bet u a coke u got one. Take a picture of your battery top specifically negative side if U want I can see. Not on pc now so cannot see info thought u running 6.4 in 2500?

 

[Wild one]

Check your stock power cable size 1st - turns out mine are 4/0 already, but I got a Heavy Duty 2500 and 6.4 Hemi.

I plant to check the routings this spring, however, to make sure they did the grounds correctly and didn't cheap out with not enough ground paths.

I don't think it hurts to add another piggyback 4G from the battery to fuse box though.
I don't know much about the pulsar piggyback tuner,but with a normal aftermarket tune you can disconnect the battery with no issues. I disconnect the battery lots on my tuned toys,and have never had any issues,my truck gets the remote diconnect switch tested on a weekly basis,lol. On my 2019 Challenger quite often if i get to the track an hour or 2 early,i'll disconnect the battery to reset the engine/transmission adaptives,but only if the car will sit for at least an hour so everything comes back

 

[HEMIMANN]

Did not say U did not have, U got it reversed reading something. Bet u a coke u got one. Take a picture of your battery top specifically negative side if U want I can see. Not on pc now so cannot see info thought u running 6.4 in 2500?

I am.

 

[Overlander]

But see, what we're discussing today is vehicle batteries are way more than just starting batteries now. With scads of electronics, many that continue running in sleep mode, a tough battery that can take nonstop draw without draining excessively is critical now.

This is the heart of every modification; I'm going to spend money on upgrades to make it better. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

Imagine spending just $180 on an Interstate 27F. That battery is lead acid and has a reserve capacity of 165 minutes (25 amp load until 10.5V). Compare that to an Optimal Yellow Top. 140 minutes reserve capacity and $380. While the Yellow top may advertise 830CCA vs the Interstate 710CCA, the Interstate has more reserve. Both ratings assume battery is fully charged, a situation that won't happen with the Optima if you charge directly from the alternator. I've gone through probably a dozen AGMs in search of something 'better'. Those batts, while always starting the vehicle performed worse in a camp environment where there was continuous draw (i.e. fridge, lights, etc) than lead acid. Once I figured out that you need something like a RedArc BCDC 25 to correctly charge an AGM things started working.

So your $380 Optima is only really getting maybe 80-90% full and is never achieving it's advertised performance. You feel better because you've 'upgraded' and because you have no direct measurement of state of charge you assume it's bringing value. But in reality it's not.

If you want to run electronics longer, you need a bigger battery (or a second battery) not an AGM. Lithium is a much better choice for extended run time (you can take those down to almost full depletion), but I wouldn't recommend that for under the hood, nor for starting loads. I'd run an AGM in something like a desert racer where it is exposed to extreme vibration, but not in a daily or camp rig.

A couple of good resources to consider:

https://workshoppist.com/car-alternator-charge-agm-battery/

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/blog/how-to-charge-an-agm-battery