Alignment Caster Woes? Need some Advise.

[ram1500rsm]

Yeah see ...that is why you are better off than me with my -44 with 20x12 and 37" tires lol ...

We were blessed with huge fenders wells and the bumper can be shaved a little to fit big meats. Look the the Chevy boys. I had to trim and pound a lot of metal in my 4th Gen Silverado (Silverado dudes call it NorCal mod) to fit 285/70/17 and 5100's at 2" front lift. My FJ and Tacos were worst. A huge chunk of metal has to go from the pinch welds to fit 285/70/17 with 2.5" lift. Crazy considering we can run that size stock. Never had anything this easy to fit big meats asides from Jeep Wranglers. Lol

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

We were blessed with huge fenders wells and the bumper can be shaved a little to fit big meats. Look the the Chevy boys. I had to trim and pound a lot of metal in my 4th Gen Silverado (Silverado dudes call it NorCal mod) to fit 285/70/17 and 5100's at 2" front lift. My FJ and Tacos were worst. A huge chunk of metal has to go from the pinch welds to fit 285/70/17 with 2.5" lift. Crazy considering we can run that size stock. Never had anything this easy to fit big meats asides from Jeep Wranglers. Lol

Yeah I actually did a NorCal mod on the pinchwelds which is why having such a low caster is good for my truck ...

But yes, sucks for those GMCs and Silverados lol

 

[crazykid1994]

Just remember your rake adjusts your caster as well which will also effect where your tire sits in the wheel well. My truck at 4.3° caster is maxed out for caster. I also only have about 1/2-1” of rake. Your lift height also changes everything due to upper and lower control arms being different lengths. My measurements hub to fender are.
Driver front 23.75”
Driver rear 24.75”
Passenger front 24”
Passenger rear 24.5”

 

[muddy12]

You never want to adjust the TOE last ... TOE is always first especially on these 4th Gen Rams ...

I’m guessing that’s how the shop I took my truck to did it, and it’s probably why they couldn’t get right.
When I got the truck back, the shop had the caster and camber good, but the toe was almost 1/2” out (I’m old school, I learned to measure toe in inches).

Anyway,when I finally had time, I aligned it myself.
Seeing that the bolts on the lower arms are the only adjustment point, and that adjusting them will effect all 3 settings, I adjusted caster first, camber second, and then finally, set the toe. It’s been several months, and the truck is driving perfect.




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[Tach_tech]

CAG I’ve been doing alignments for years. Toe is the last thing you do, camber will change the toe. It’s a fact.

As I said before if you have ever done alignments on a machine with live read outs the toe will change during other adjustments. Hence why it’s done last. That’s how I do them and everyone else in our shop, that’s also how FCA trains techs to do them. Also how the entire apprenticeship board trains every tech in Canada. I have never worked in a shop that did it first, that’s how you cause tire wear problems.

Adjusting toe does not effect camber or caster hence why that’s done last.

Your snippet from that article is also referring to solid axle trucks that don’t have any camber adjustments, only caster. Caster is extremely important on the solid axle trucks, especially once you start lifting them. Since you can’t adjust camber it doesn’t really matter. On anything with camber adjustments it’s a different story.

Caster itself will not change toe. However the vast majority of vehicles that have camber and caster adjustments are done with one eccentric that adjusts both camber/caster at the same time.


Here’s an article from hot rod. There’s lots of other info out there as well as videos. I could probably even dig up my books from my apprenticeship.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0411-wheel-alignment-guide/

This is right from that article “Tips on Setting Alignment* The effects of the various alignment settings interact, so adjust caster and camber first. Toe must be set last.“


Here’s a video from south main auto. You can watch him do the entire alignment and toe is last.

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

CAG I’ve been doing alignments for years. Toe is the last thing you do, camber will change the toe. It’s a fact.

As I said before if you have ever done alignments on a machine with live read outs the toe will change during other adjustments. Hence why it’s done last. That’s how I do them and everyone else in our shop, that’s also how FCA trains techs to do them. Also how the entire apprenticeship board trains every tech in Canada. I have never worked in a shop that did it first, that’s how you cause tire wear problems.

Adjusting toe does not effect camber or caster hence why that’s done last.

Your snippet from that article is also referring to solid axle trucks that don’t have any camber adjustments, only caster. Caster is extremely important on the solid axle trucks, especially once you start lifting them. Since you can’t adjust camber it doesn’t really matter. On anything with camber adjustments it’s a different story.

Caster itself will not change toe. However the vast majority of vehicles that have camber and caster adjustments are done with one eccentric that adjusts both camber/caster at the same time.


Here’s an article from hot rod. There’s lots of other info out there as well as videos. I could probably even dig up my books from my apprenticeship.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0411-wheel-alignment-guide/

This is right from that article “Tips on Setting Alignment* The effects of the various alignment settings interact, so adjust caster and camber first. Toe must be set last.“


Here’s a video from south main auto. You can watch him do the entire alignment and toe is last.

And I too have done alignments and "WE" in the States always do toe first ... you and I can argue back and forth about this but there's a reason my truck was aligned correctly and that is because of what instructions I personally gave them...

Only thing I want to change now like I mentioned before is the caster which was actually perfect before... but I also taking into consideration that my lift has now settled even more than before...



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[CheechDogg.0n37s]

Oh and by the way that video is for a Chevy truck... Ram 1500s have a completely different way of being aligned correctly and those that know about this know exactly how to align them

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[Tach_tech]

Oh and by the way that video is for a Chevy truck... Ram 1500s have a completely different way of being aligned correctly and those that know about this know exactly how to align them

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They still accomplish the same task. The Ram uses eccentrics on the lower control arm where the Chevy uses them on the upper. It still accomplishes the same adjustments.

You’re right we can argue all we want. Can’t argue facts though.

Adjusting camber will effect your toe. So if you set your toe perfect then change your camber, you can’t guarantee the toe hasn’t changed. So not adjusting/checking toe after a camber adjustment is not the correct way. Doesn’t matter what country you live in, it’s not the proper way to do it. The FCA factory service manual(Written in the USA by the way) even states toe is last, I can show you if you like.

 

[scott lass 18]

Does anyone here know there stuff around aligning a 4th gen 1500?

I got a 2011 ram 1500 5.7. I recently installed a 2.5 in leveling kit and had my truck aligned.

The truck now severely pull to the right on the freeway. (bad caster adjustment)

I called the shop and the tech said my adjustments were maxed out all the way and told me to just swap the front tires with each other. Yeah... great customer service.

Anyways. Looking to adjust the caster myself until it drives straight. Anyone ever done this before? Looks likes the lower control arms have two cammed bolts.

I just got new tiers they did alignment always had a pull to right just a little mine was way off from day one on right side now I can let go of the wheel all goes straight ! makes me wounder was something wrong when built ? so far no crazy wear on tiers

 

[William Gedeon]

My 2011 , 1500 Laramie, owned since new and stock un-lifted. It has 136K miles in it. At around 110K it developed the Doge Death Wobble, tires were waring badly and the dealership I took it to get an alignment, told me it had reached the limit of the alignment range. Their fix was, take the truck to their body shop and have the frame bent to regain the ability to re-align the front. My goodness, it's a TRUCK, never abused beyond the same potholes in Denver, everyone else goes over.

I did not accept their diagnosis and spent much time and money researching the problem, which continued to worsen. Ultimately, after several shops agreed with each other and confirmed my suspicion, the front coil springs I believe, are under engineered and sagged. I replaced the rear shocks with Bilstein's and the front spring and shock combination, Monroe's, otherwise known as a strut, fixed everything.

70% of the wobble was fixed just with the rear shocks and the alignment issues were resolved with the front struts being replaced. I found that the front raised almost 2" and the camber and castor adjustments are back in the normal range they're allowed to travel in.

Of course there are many other things that can apply, bushings, ball joints, bent steering links, etc. But my opinion, since the CAFE orders to make vehicles more fuel efficient has caused manufactures to cut corners and under engineer many parts by several factors, to the detriment of the design concepts causing early wear and failure.

So, to conclude, the shocks, MOPAR, died early on, and the front coil spring followed not far behind.

 

[Tach_tech]

Sounds like that first dealer had some ****** techs. Springs/shocks would have to pretty worn out to the point to cause a vibration and should be fairly easy to diagnose. Unfortunately not all shops/techs are created equal.

Death wobble is only on the solid axle trucks though, not just a dodge thing either. Any truck with that style suspension can suffer it. It’s also a very accurate name, it can be quite scary when it happens. You’ll hit a bump and wheel can start shaking violently and the only way it will stop is if you slow down. I almost ended up upside down once when it happened in a customers wrangler.

 

[Bassin12]

Had this same issue on my 2017 when I put my leveling kit in.Installed Moog adjustable upper ball joints for rams and had it aligned again drives straighter than ever. Also they seem like a better ball joint than stock.

 

[crazykid1994]

Had this same issue on my 2017 when I put my leveling kit in.Installed Moog adjustable upper ball joints for rams and had it aligned again drives straighter than ever. Also they seem like a better ball joint than stock.

If you want a better ball joint run zone upper control arms. Moog isn’t as reliable as they used to be and offset ball joints are weaker by design than standard ball joints. Zone upper control arms relocate the ball joint to help with the alignment and put the ball joint in a better angle for 2” or higher leveled applications.

 

[Gary2]

Never heard of doing toe first always last. As you set caster and camber it will change your toe . Camber will also make a vehicle pull and as far as swapping the front tires side per side is not something you should make fun of the guy for saying as you are showing how much experience you have by doing so . Swapping side to side has cured a pull very often , had it work a few times myself. That said we are all ******* in the wind without posting the print out of what your setting are from the alignment .

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

Never heard of doing toe first always last. As you set caster and camber it will change your toe . Camber will also make a vehicle pull and as far as swapping the front tires side per side is not something you should make fun of the guy for saying as you are showing how much experience you have by doing so . Swapping side to side has cured a pull very often , had it work a few times myself. That said we are all ******* in the wind without posting the print out of what your setting are from the alignment .

And that is exactly why I said he should post his alignment readings ...

Setting toe first will help more than you guys think .... I never said don't check the toe at the end just don't do toe at the end ...start with toe and if you really are not sure about the live readings then check the toe ... remember you still have to make the front end settle by moving the truck back a few feet then back to the turn plates, **** I make sure I bounce the front end up and down a few times and still do about 2-3 readings before I even settle on something ... if everything is good after you set that toe before the camber and caster you will have very good readings ...

Also I never said that camber doesn't affect toe , which is why I was talking more about caster which is what doesn't affect toe ... there is a reason you do the toe on these trucks first and that so that the caster helps your truck move straight forward and not try to find a straight line ... you don't want any toe on these trucks and camber is not something you want any of either so that leaves just toe and caster to really worry about ...

But hey what do I know lol ... my truck drives straight as an arrow have no problems with it pulling to any side and that is because I asked for toe to be zeroed in first then camber and last the caster ...

They didn't even have to worry about toe at all at the end because the camber was set at -0.0 left and -0.5 right to help with any pulling ...

That allowed them to add all that caster to have a more stable high speed handling which with the toe at 0 helps it drive straight as an arrow ...

Again that is why I have been talking about caster more in this thread than anything else which will help the OP get this truck driving straight and not pulling severely right on the freeway like he stated which is caused by bad caster adjustment ...

 

[Tach_tech]

So what do you do if toe is off at the end then? Adjust the toe then start all over again?

The reason your truck drives straight has everything to do with it’s current alignment settings and not with which adjustment was performed in what order. The whole reason toe is last is because camber will change toe so there’s no reason to do it first if you’re going to make an adjustment that can change the toe.

Adjusting caster has no effect on toe and vice versa. Yes all the angles have to come together to get a good result but having toe zeroed first before caster doesn’t somehow cause the truck to drive better than a truck with toe set last. If you’re working on a vehicle that only has caster/toe adjustments then sure it Really doesn’t matter when you do toe. On the 1500s though camber/caster is done by the same adjuster so you can’t only adjust caster without the camber moving at the same time.

There’s nothing special about these trucks that makes it any more difficult to align than any other of the other makes. That article you first posted was about the HD trucks, not a 1500. Two completely different suspension set ups.

I’ve been doing alignments on these trucks for over 10 years now, from lifted to lowered and they’re all done the same way. Camber/Caster first then toe. They all drive perfectly straight and true and have never had someone come back complaining.

That being said if you feel doing it first works for you and as long as everything’s right at the end then that’s all that matters. It’s just not the way I choose to do it.

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

So what do you do if toe is off at the end then? Adjust the toe then start all over again?

The reason your truck drives straight has everything to do with it’s current alignment settings and not with which adjustment was performed in what order. The whole reason toe is last is because camber will change toe so there’s no reason to do it first if you’re going to make an adjustment that can change the toe.

Adjusting caster has no effect on toe and vice versa. Yes all the angles have to come together to get a good result but having toe zeroed first before caster doesn’t somehow cause the truck to drive better than a truck with toe set last. If you’re working on a vehicle that only has caster/toe adjustments then sure it Really doesn’t matter when you do toe. On the 1500s though camber/caster is done by the same adjuster so you can’t only adjust caster without the camber moving at the same time.

There’s nothing special about these trucks that makes it any more difficult to align than any other of the other makes. That article you first posted was about the HD trucks, not a 1500. Two completely different suspension set ups.

I’ve been doing alignments on these trucks for over 10 years now, from lifted to lowered and they’re all done the same way. Camber/Caster first then toe. They all drive perfectly straight and true and have never had someone come back complaining.

That being said if you feel doing it first works for you and as long as everything’s right at the end then that’s all that matters. It’s just not the way I choose to do it.

Ok got it Grand Master of alignments lol ....

I guess that is why doing it your way they couldn't align my truck but as soon as I gave them specific instructions on what to do it was aligned correctly.... right ?

But hey you have been doing alignments on these trucks for over 10 years ...

And I never said don't check the toe at the end lol ...come on now Genius ! lol

You are set in your ways and that is fine ... it works for you and that is fine too ... but those who have had problems with their trucks pulling to one side or who have not had other alignment shops fix their issues have had satisfying results doing it my way ...

And "YOU" are going by the OEM specs that are already set in the system ....

But have fun aligning for another 10 years lol .... amazes me how some people just can't accept the fact that there is more than one way to "SKIN A CAT" .... and get upset when others don't agree with their ways lol ...

 

[Tach_tech]

Ok got it Grand Master of alignments lol ....

I guess that is why doing it your way they couldn't align my truck but as soon as I gave them specific instructions on what to do it was aligned correctly.... right ?

But hey you have been doing alignments on these trucks for over 10 years ...

And I never said don't check the toe at the end lol ...come on now Genius ! lol

You are set in your ways and that is fine ... it works for you and that is fine too ... but those who have had problems with their trucks pulling to one side or who have not had other alignment shops fix their issues have had satisfying results doing it my way ...

And "YOU" are going by the OEM specs that are already set in the system ....

But have fun aligning for another 10 years lol .... amazes me how some people just can't accept the fact that there is more than one way to "SKIN A CAT" .... and get upset when others don't agree with their ways lol ...

I was trying to be nice and move on, I literally said “That being said if you feel doing it first works for you and as long as everything’s right at the end then that’s all that matters. It’s just not the way I choose to do it.” That would fall under more than one way to skin a cat genius. I also said in my first post that you can adjust toe first if it’s way out to bring things closer but you’ll likely have to adjust it after adjusting camber/toe genius!

You also said you NEVER adjust toe last always first but now you say there’s more than one way to do it. So what do you do if you check it after you did it first and it’s off after adjusting Caster/camber? Do you just leave it because you’re never supposed to adjust toe last?

I never claimed to be a grand master, nor did I ever say I always used factory specs. For a stock truck sure, but lifted or lowered can and usually does require some tweaking and we have our own specs that work well for us.

I believe you also said quite confidently “Come on man...Show me where it says you adjust toe first?” Which I did, then you proceeded to quote an article for HD trucks with completely different suspension set up than what the OP originally posted.

So no I’m not stuck in my ways, there’s plenty of ways to skin a cat. Like I said have them done anyway you want but if you ever do alignments on a regular basis you’ll find out adjusting toe first when there’s a good chance you’ll just have to do it again at the end makes about as much sense as wiping before you poop.

Personally I don’t want to keep repeating my points and I’m sure you don’t either. I have my way you have yours and I really don’t care how you do it as long as it’s fine in the end.

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

I was trying to be nice and move on, I literally said “That being said if you feel doing it first works for you and as long as everything’s right at the end then that’s all that matters. It’s just not the way I choose to do it.” That would fall under more than one way to skin a cat genius. I also said in my first post that you can adjust toe first if it’s way out to bring things closer but you’ll likely have to adjust it after adjusting camber/toe genius!

You also said you NEVER adjust toe last always first but now you say there’s more than one way to do it. So what do you do if you check it after you did it first and it’s off after adjusting Caster/camber? Do you just leave it because you’re never supposed to adjust toe last?

I never claimed to be a grand master, nor did I ever say I always used factory specs. For a stock truck sure, but lifted or lowered can and usually does require some tweaking and we have our own specs that work well for us.

I believe you also said quite confidently “Come on man...Show me where it says you adjust toe first?” Which I did, then you proceeded to quote an article for HD trucks with completely different suspension set up than what the OP originally posted.

So no I’m not stuck in my ways, there’s plenty of ways to skin a cat. Like I said have them done anyway you want but if you ever do alignments on a regular basis you’ll find out adjusting toe first when there’s a good chance you’ll just have to do it again at the end makes about as much sense as wiping before you poop.

Personally I don’t want to keep repeating my points and I’m sure you don’t either. I have my way you have yours and I really don’t care how you do it as long as it’s fine in the end.

Got it "GENIUS"

 

[Tach_tech]

Got it "GENIUS"

Glad we’re friends again.