Another interesting oil concern…goofy??

[zogg]

I went to Sams club to buy a new set of tires. Thank the lord the sra’s are gone…..what crap. I bought Pirelli Scorpion A/T Plus, which seem to be good so far…sorry, I digress.

Anyway, the guy behind the counter was a retired Chrysler mechanic working part time. He offered me a conventional oil change while I had the truck in the shop. I said, “no thanks, I just changed it and I use full synthetic “. He got this almost angry look on his face and told me I’ll ruin the engine. He said the hemi REQUIRES conventional oil to maintain the proper pressure in the hydraulic lifters and variable valve timing setup. He supposedly had to rebuild hundreds of Hemi engines due to the use of synthetic oil.
I said that I think “most” people use synthetic and “most” Hemi engines go 200,000 miles or more. But, he kept at it and I finally said “I’ll think about it” just to suspend the conversation.
Is he correct? Am I missing something?? Or is he just a goofy guy?

 

[G-Ride990]

He seriously said that he rebuilt hundreds of engines because synthetic oil killed them?

You did the right thing, no point arguing with someone like that.

 

[zogg]

Yep…I’m pretty much quoting him. Funny thing though, he presented his argument in such a way that I almost agreed with him. He was very convincing and very knowledgeable.
I’m still using the pennzoil ultra platinum. Ha

 

[kurek]

heh, oil and fuel are witch doctor stuff for the mechanized era

 

[retired]

good thing he is retired.....or he should be fired......he is probably the same guy when someone came in and asked for conventional told them they needed synthetic. Only oil recommended for my Hemi 6.4 is synthetic...

 

[Richard Kim]

Zogg,

Sounds goofy. The head tech at a Ram dealer uses full synthetic and changes every 4,000 miles. 300K on his 2012 1500. I have a 2016 2500 5.7 (no MDS) with 128K; used only full synthetic 5K oil change intervals and running like a top. I read on bobistheoilguy that PYB (Pennzoil Yellow Bottle - conventional) has great detergent package but have never came across that synthetic is harmful to a modern engine. Just my $.02.

 

[crazykid1994]

Lol. Most conventional oils now are damn near the same as synthetic except for the base makeup. The base makeup is what gives you your actual lubricity and then your additives determine oil life expectancy and engine cleanliness. PUP is one of the higher for cleaning additives as well as additives to extend gasket life. The only downfall to pup is it is a thinner oil for its weight. Being that the hemi was specd to run 5w20 to 5w30 and synthetic stays more consistent then I’d say he’s just stuck in his ways. Are there engines with conventional oil that run into the 2 or 300,000 mile range? Yes. But you would be more likely to see an engine with synthetic up into that mileage.

 

[BossHogg]

From the owners' manual;

"Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recom-
mended oil quality requirements are met, and the recom-
mended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed."

 

[zogg]

I have to wonder how many people he converts to conventional oil, or just tells the shop guys to use conventional without telling the customer?? Imagine the little old lady that has no idea….ugh

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Well to add a bit of fuel to the old guys recommendation, I have a family friend, who I've known for about 35 years, that was one of the chrysler engineers that worked on hemi development and testing.

He's one of the most straightforward guys I know, he's in his late 80s and swears the hemi in its original form was built to run conventional oil and today's modern version of the engine with fuel injection should not be any different. I've had this discussion with him multiple times and despite providing data, pointing out the important elements of synthetic, and cost that are similar with extended change intervals he says I'm wrong and I'm wasting money.

Here's are article where he is referenced about running cell 12 in the hemi testing area. Also referenced him in the photo with the 426. Forest Peacock.

https://www.allpar.com/threads/marc-rozman-working-with-legends-and-the-famous-cell-13.228121/

So, my 11 5.7 hemi, i ran semi synthetic for the first 80k miles and then royal purple for another 20k before taking the plunge to redline. Truck has 150k currently, no tick, no cam replacement an no lifter issues. Could happen tomorrow but to date its going strong.

Not certain I totally believe but, coming from my friend's experience, there might be a nugget of truth to the statement.

Form your own conclusions

 

[Gr8bawana]

While I'm not a fan of synthetic oil, the guy is a moron. You can use any oil as long as it meets spec for that particular engine.
As BossHogg posted...
From the owners' manual;

"Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recom-
mended oil quality requirements are met, and the recom-
mended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed."

 

[buckeyexx]

Well in the 6.4 hemi you can only get the “recommended“ 0w40 in synthetic that I have found.

 

[Burla]

I went to Sams club to buy a new set of tires. Thank the lord the sra’s are gone…..what crap. I bought Pirelli Scorpion A/T Plus, which seem to be good so far…sorry, I digress.

Anyway, the guy behind the counter was a retired Chrysler mechanic working part time. He offered me a conventional oil change while I had the truck in the shop. I said, “no thanks, I just changed it and I use full synthetic “. He got this almost angry look on his face and told me I’ll ruin the engine. He said the hemi REQUIRES conventional oil to maintain the proper pressure in the hydraulic lifters and variable valve timing setup. He supposedly had to rebuild hundreds of Hemi engines due to the use of synthetic oil.
I said that I think “most” people use synthetic and “most” Hemi engines go 200,000 miles or more. But, he kept at it and I finally said “I’ll think about it” just to suspend the conversation.
Is he correct? Am I missing something?? Or is he just a goofy guy?

I guess he knows better then fca engineers who designed a hemi specific oils to be synthetic with heavy EP additives? PUP 0w40 was reported to be an effort between fca and pennzoil to be a specific hemi oil, despite the pressure of the gov't to go thin, those two organizations where successful in making a super oil that had clean base oil and fully synthetic and btw PUP has the lowest wear numbers over any oil proven by uoa's, but hey maybe there is a reason that dude has a bonehead job.

BTW, the largest fallacy is that the contaminants in in group 2 oils benefit lubrication, because they don't. If you look at what happens when they hit operating temps and compare that to what happens when base oils hit operating temps, you would know synthetic oil is only an upgrade in lubrication. The age old question is does it even matter to have cleaner base oils in engine longevity, and that hasnt been proven one way or another. But, when you have an engine that ticks meaning it is operating out of tolerance, is it beneficial to have an oil that address that, you would have to agree with that. The interesting thing pennzoils group 2 oils do have heavy EP additives as well. So saying group 2 lubricates better then group 3 is just not truth, but is it necessary to have synthetic is an entirely different conversation.

 

[Jeepwalker]

I use PUP in my Ram, and synthetic in a diesel vehicle I have. But I've used regular Citgo dino oil that I can buy at our local farm & barn almost exclusively ...in numerous cars since the early 80's. It's about the least expensive oil, esp on sale. I've driven most vehicles past 200k mi (before I replaced the car), and some vehicles past 300k (till they rusted out). And I change oil about every 5k miles (easier to remember).

Never had an engine fail or even wear out and become an oil-burner. So engines can definitely last a long time on dino oil. But where called for, yeah, I definitely use synthetic.

I've also used Mobil in my John Deere garden tractor mower since the beginning. Briggs Vanguard. I've cut so much grass with that (about 2.5 acres each time) ..for, what, 20 years? Replaced a lot of wear parts on that thing but it doesn't burn a lick of oil.

 

[Marmay]

Conventional oil ,5w20 in my truck ,kill the hemi tick.

 

[Phillyrube]

OIL THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jeepwalker]

OIL THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right. Sorry, I got sucked in to the oil talk. Fortunately nobody ever listens to me anyway (on oil or otherwise ...lol)

O/P, you did the right thing being polite and do the ole, "Let me go check it out and get back to ya" trick. Stick with what you are doing.

 

[hunterdan]

There's a reason he's working "part-time" at Sam's... Seems everyone thinks they were a professional or knew better.

 

[Wahrsuul]

Never argue with an idiot - they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. And from a distance, people can't tell the difference.

 

[SouthernBornRebel]

He's probably an disgruntled ex-employee of dealership..... and full of bull.... I run

Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil​