Big Engine (5.7, 5.9, 6.4, 6.7, 8.0, etc) vs Small Engine (3.0, 3.6)... Towing?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

1jjsd1

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Posts
4
Reaction score
3
Location
San Diego, Ca
Ram Year
2021
Engine
6.7 diesel
I have both options. 2018 Eco Diesel 3.0 and 2021 2500 6.7 diesel. I use the 3.0 around town and Home Depot runs and the 6.7 for towing our 8500lb TT. Drove cross country last year 13500 miles San Diego to Maine and back with 6.7 and no problems. Each truck has its purpose. 3.0 is great on hwy mileage of 27. While towing with 6.7 gets around 14mpg.Also no jake brake on 3.0 EcoDiesel
 

TomB 1269

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Posts
452
Reaction score
453
Location
Schenectady NY
Ram Year
2019 Classic
Engine
5.7 Hemi
I willing to bet OP thought the 3.6L Penstar in the Rams was a turbo motor like the Ford 3.6L Ecoboost.
As far as towing I have always leaned on the old saying "no replacement for displacement" when towing. However, I have also driven the Ford with the 3.6 Eco and its a great pulling motor, even better in my mind then our Hemi V8 with in certain respects. Primarily the turbos are tuned for torque in a comfortable RPM range form me at about 2000-2500. Our Hemi needs a little more RPM to reach its torque sweet spot so your turning about 3000 rpms to get that sweet spot for torque. So with the hemi your either pulling at higher speed (to high) or you gearing down to be in the right RPM for torque on demand. With a turbo your at a nice speed and have torque on demand.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,773
Reaction score
5,017
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
I willing to bet OP thought the 3.6L Penstar in the Rams was a turbo motor like the Ford 3.6L Ecoboost.
As far as towing I have always leaned on the old saying "no replacement for displacement" when towing. However, I have also driven the Ford with the 3.6 Eco and its a great pulling motor, even better in my mind then our Hemi V8 with in certain respects. Primarily the turbos are tuned for torque in a comfortable RPM range form me at about 2000-2500. Our Hemi needs a little more RPM to reach its torque sweet spot so your turning about 3000 rpms to get that sweet spot for torque. So with the hemi your either pulling at higher speed (to high) or you gearing down to be in the right RPM for torque on demand. With a turbo your at a nice speed and have torque on demand.

What size trailer are you pulling? I pull a 22ish foot with about 5000 to 6000 pounds and one of my last trips it was pulling in 7th/overdrive (I have a 3.21), 1700 to 1800 RPMs? Most of the time it is very happy in 6th at about 2200 and it will do that all day on the straights and mild inclines. Up a hill it does rev up to 3000 but that's just part of the charm of a N/A v8, I've kind of gotten used to it to be honest, the transmission is very well tuned so it's all pretty smooth and seamless.

No doubt the turbos are stronger lower down, but I can't shake the feeling that you're working a highly strung motor ready to snap and/or overheat vs the hemi which is like a heavy duty beast. Mind you our trucks could use some additional cooling too.
 

OutpostRam

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2020
Posts
23
Reaction score
18
Location
Sunspot Arizona
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
How about some pics of the engine of your truck. You have a turbo on a gasser 3.6L engine? Or is it a 3.0 Diesel engine? We are confused. Pop the hood, snap a pic.
 

olscout

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Posts
40
Reaction score
32
Ram Year
2001
Engine
5.9 gas
2016 3.6, 8 speed, 4x4, 3.21 ratios. Definitely not ideal for towing, but last year I had to use it to pull a 73 International 3/4 ton camper special (read HEAVY) from South Carolina home to Northern Indiana. Lots of mountains in the first half, the kind that have runaway truck ramps. I was pulling a 20' channel iron car trailer, rough guess is 7500# total trailer weight, and trailer brakes were somewhat sketchy (my fault, ran out of time to replace them and its not my trailer). I put a set of Timbren clones on the rear, and had a LD hitch. I drove a lot at night and never had an issue with the headlight aim.
The 3.6 did work on some of the hills, and I used the 8 gears for engine braking on the biggest downhills, but I was surprised how well it did. Mountains and all, high rpms and engine braking and all, I averaged 13-14 mpg loaded, which was better than my old Avalanche with the 5.3 LS did loaded pulling the same trailer with a similar load on flatter terrain. I have done the active shutter delete, and removed the transmission in line thermostat. Engine temp hit a high of 220, transmission never got over 190. Would I use this truck to pull regularly? Nope, I have an 01 Sierra Z71 for "working" now. But when I didn't have a choice, the Pentastar did a great job.
 

Doug Ram

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2020
Posts
470
Reaction score
376
Location
Central NY, AKA Upstate NY
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Eco Diesel _3.0
Read this entire thread and don't understand..
Turbo V-6 Ram. No such thing exists as made by FCA. So I want details about how the engine: Who/What/When/Where/How did it become a turbo?

As for using tractor weights to weigh down the front of a truck for towing. Someones having a bit of fun at our expense folks. Nobody's that nuts.
 

Baysider

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Posts
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Accomack County, VA
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7L Hemi
Jeeps with 3.6’s are rated at 3,000 lbs (2 door). The Unlimited (4 door) with the 3.6 is rated at 5,000 lbs. I think more the weight of the Jeep than the motor is at play. It’s the truck’s weight, chassis suspension, brakes and then finally the drive train. I get 4 inches of deflection when I hitch a 30 foot 5500 lb. Keystone to my 1500 5.7L 6 speed before the weight is distributed. I added computer trailer brake control, WDH, and dual anti-sway kits. This trailer weighs about the same as the truck. I felt like this was not the ratio I wanted because the truck is simply too light overall for the trailer IMO. The 6 speed is not the choice for towing but i can use Tow/Haul and limit top gear on the shifter +/-. When you are too light you can tell the trailer is doing a lot of the stopping. The whole thing comes down to get a bigger truck. No matter what you put on it you are compensating for your light weight. Horsepower is only one part of the whole.
 

airrecon

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Posts
71
Reaction score
62
Location
Repton, AL
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi 5.4
Ok, I imagine this has been well discussed in the past. But...

Anyway, somewhat by accident, I ended up with a 2013 Ram 1500 with 3.6L, 8 speed auto, that actually runs.

And I do a fair amount of towing. Varies from light up to around 8000 lbs.

It has a Turbo, and is rated around 300 HP.

For comparison, a vintage Chevy 350 is rated somewhere around 200 to 300 HP.

Anyway, everyone seems to think one needs a big engine to tow. But, I'm not so sure. The 3.6L Turbo engine has a fair amount of get up and go, and I can mash the pedal down to merge onto the freeway.

Running light, I can get 23 to 24 MPG.

Towing through Nebraska/Wyoming, I got some E85 (engine is FLEX), and dropped the MPG down to about 11.5. But usually it is around 15 to 16 MPG loaded.

I run equalizer bars, but could really use a bit stiffer rear end for the pickup. And my headlights are often out of focus (why don't they make them auto focus?).

I'm not convinced that I actually need more HP. Perhaps I should throw on some tractor weights up front as a counterbalance.

Now, the engine doesn't hold back much going downhill. I often find myself shifting into 3rd or 4th, and still need to use the brakes. Why hasn't RAM put Jake Brakes onto these engines?

Anyway, I would imagine a 2500/3500 pickup would be more comfortable for towing, but they are a bit expensive :(

So, what are other people's thoughts about working a 3.0L or 3.6L engine? Larger?
Your owners manual or the Ram website will tell you how much you can tow. Very detailed
 

rosco11

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Posts
54
Reaction score
73
Ram Year
1998 1500 4x4
Engine
5.2
It is a simple choice. Diesel is better than gas for towing, period. They develop their power where you will be driving, 1500 to 2000. Even a 6.4 does not develop much torque until 3000 rpms and up. And the more weight you pull, the bigger engine you get. Not hard. Gas engines develop their peak torque outside of the rpm range you will be towing at. So apples to oranges, a 3.0 turbo diesel will have significantly more torque at 60 mph than a 6.4 gas engine even though the gas engine eventually develops more.
 

crash68

ACME product engineer
Staff member
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Posts
10,704
Reaction score
16,709
Ram Year
2015
Engine
3.0 EcoDiesel
a 3.0 turbo diesel will have significantly more torque at 60 mph than a 6.4 gas engine even though the gas engine eventually develops more.
The 3rd Gen EcoDiesel has a peak torque of 480 ft/lbs @ 1600 rpms, the 6.4 Hemi is 429 ft/lbs @ 4K rpms. Won't even mention the Cummins which is 850 or 1050 depending if it's standard or HO.
 

Ural_Guy

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Posts
11
Reaction score
6
Location
35803
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
Skip the tractor weights unless you already replaced the stock bump stops. The factory ones are crap. Go to Timbren.com and spend $150, they work amazing. I have a 2019 Tradesman Classic and pull a 33 foot travel trailer. The truck sagged badly and that made the front end light and at times it didn't have good contract with the pavement. Not the ideal situation. Someone told me to get the Timbrens and I'm glad I did. They are rated for much higher loads than the stock ones are (but do not increase one's towing capacity). It takes about 15 minutes to install them and since they don't squish down like the stock bump stops do the truck is more level. Visually, now when the trailer is hooked up, my truck is pretty durn near level which is what you want. The stock bump stops are the yellow ones and the Timbren is the black one. It comes down to about 3/4 of an inch above the axle so regular driving without a load is unaffected.
 

Attachments

  • 20220327_153216.jpg
    20220327_153216.jpg
    105.4 KB · Views: 5

2003F350

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Posts
1,226
Reaction score
1,130
Location
Michigan
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.7 CTD
Skip the tractor weights unless you already replaced the stock bump stops. The factory ones are crap. Go to Timbren.com and spend $150, they work amazing. I have a 2019 Tradesman Classic and pull a 33 foot travel trailer. The truck sagged badly and that made the front end light and at times it didn't have good contract with the pavement. Not the ideal situation. Someone told me to get the Timbrens and I'm glad I did. They are rated for much higher loads than the stock ones are (but do not increase one's towing capacity). It takes about 15 minutes to install them and since they don't squish down like the stock bump stops do the truck is more level. Visually, now when the trailer is hooked up, my truck is pretty durn near level which is what you want. The stock bump stops are the yellow ones and the Timbren is the black one. It comes down to about 3/4 of an inch above the axle so regular driving without a load is unaffected.

If you are pulling a 33ft travel trailer without a WDH, and just run harder bump-stops, you're putting a tiny bandaid on the problem and hoping you don't bleed out.

If you're pulling a 33ft travel trailer WITH a WDH and still getting that much sag, then it isn't set up properly and you need to go get it set up properly. A 33ft travel trailer shouldn't have THAT much tongue weight with a properly set up WDH, regardless of what truck you're pulling it with.

I pull a 35-ish ft travel trailer with my Power Wagon and have almost zero squat, with a properly set up WDH.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,773
Reaction score
5,017
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
If you are pulling a 33ft travel trailer without a WDH, and just run harder bump-stops, you're putting a tiny bandaid on the problem and hoping you don't bleed out.

Agreed, and it actually makes the problem worse due to the fact that now you're increasing the leverage over the rear wheels, forcing the front to come up even faster.

Example. Lets say you have fat bob bouncing up and down on your rear bumper, and you have air shocks set to 500 psi (in other words, your rear suspension isn't moving at all). Bob will use his weight as a lever, with your rear axle as the pivot, forcing the front to jump up.

But if you put 3 psi in your rear air shocks, now when Bob jumps up and down, a lot of weight is absorbed directly over the pivot (axles) so now the front end won't move up nearly as much.

Please don't use air bags or sumo springs/timbrens without understanding that a properly setup WDH pretty much removes the need for that entirely.
 

Ural_Guy

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Posts
11
Reaction score
6
Location
35803
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
Yep...running a correcrly installed WDH and didn't mean to imply the truck was bouncing down the road barely making contact with the road. The Tibrens worked in my situation to level the truck better under load. My apologies to the OP as I am not intending to hijack your thread.
 

VernDiesel

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Posts
440
Reaction score
676
Location
Dayton OH
Ram Year
2014
Engine
ED
OP sounds like a troll to me. Half sense & unrelated odd stuff. Doubt he ever produces a pic of that turbo 3.6. Makes you wonder about the rest of his odd statements. Wonder if he drives a ford car or Honda civic and thinks he is hilarious.

Both 2003 & ramf posts were on point. I like to use the teeter totter example. The pivot point is the drive axle. The engine is a kid on one side the tongue/trailer the heavy kid on the other. If the heavy kid is lifting the motor your truck & trailer is unstable. Harder to turn harder to stop unsprung suspension making a higher center of gravity. Easy to roll if you have to make an S swerve should someone pull into your path.

WDH is first and best line of defence. If it includes built in sway control it also works to stop trailer sway before it begins. Done correctly the axle to frame air bags is a great compliment to a WDH or as a stand alone for bed loads. Air bags support and stabilize the rear suspension. They dampen and smooth the ride and help keep full tire weight and contact patch on the road. Sag should not happen with a WDH but certainly can with just a heavy bedload. A Timbren bump stop is an inexpensive better than nothing tool and the Sumo spring made out of polyurethane a step better and the best choice if you don't want to use air.

1jjsd1 Sounds like you have not yet invested in an aftermarket tune. EPA era diesel owner find their truck to have far better odds of staying reliable and less needy of cleanouts and service department visits. More power or improved mileage just not in the same moment. And you can add that jake or turbo brake. My suggestion if you are investing in your truck and getting a tune from GDE Green Diesel Engineering, EOC Ecodiesel of Canada, or SKT Sofa King Tuned ask to get the brake setup a little on the stronger more aggressive side. When put with the factory TBC trailer brake controller mine will come down a long mountain grade with say a 8k TT travel trailer and I never need to use my service brakes to control speed allowing me to keep my service brakes cool & ready.
 
Last edited:
Top