Big Engine (5.7, 5.9, 6.4, 6.7, 8.0, etc) vs Small Engine (3.0, 3.6)... Towing?

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CliffordK

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Ok, I imagine this has been well discussed in the past. But...

Anyway, somewhat by accident, I ended up with a 2013 Ram 1500 with 3.6L, 8 speed auto, that actually runs.

And I do a fair amount of towing. Varies from light up to around 8000 lbs.

It has a Turbo, and is rated around 300 HP.

For comparison, a vintage Chevy 350 is rated somewhere around 200 to 300 HP.

Anyway, everyone seems to think one needs a big engine to tow. But, I'm not so sure. The 3.6L Turbo engine has a fair amount of get up and go, and I can mash the pedal down to merge onto the freeway.

Running light, I can get 23 to 24 MPG.

Towing through Nebraska/Wyoming, I got some E85 (engine is FLEX), and dropped the MPG down to about 11.5. But usually it is around 15 to 16 MPG loaded.

I run equalizer bars, but could really use a bit stiffer rear end for the pickup. And my headlights are often out of focus (why don't they make them auto focus?).

I'm not convinced that I actually need more HP. Perhaps I should throw on some tractor weights up front as a counterbalance.

Now, the engine doesn't hold back much going downhill. I often find myself shifting into 3rd or 4th, and still need to use the brakes. Why hasn't RAM put Jake Brakes onto these engines?

Anyway, I would imagine a 2500/3500 pickup would be more comfortable for towing, but they are a bit expensive :(

So, what are other people's thoughts about working a 3.0L or 3.6L engine? Larger?
 

crash68

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Perhaps I should throw on some tractor weights up front as a counterbalance.

Now, the engine doesn't hold back much going downhill. I often find myself shifting into 3rd or 4th, and still need to use the brakes. Why hasn't RAM put Jake Brakes onto these engines?
Instead of tractor weights, try the correct way and properly set up a weight distribution hitch for the load your towing. You can go with stiffer springs or airbags to deal with the squat, but the WDH still needs to be adjusted correctly.
Do you have the Tow/Haul mode enabled? Gas engines don't need a Jake Brake, once the butterfly valve closes, engine braking happens. A Jake Brake is for diesel trucks, it manipulates the exhaust valves to use the engine compression to slow the load.

It's not horsepower that tows the load, it's torque.
 
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CliffordK

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Instead of tractor weights, try the correct way and properly set up a weight distribution hitch for the load your towing.

It's not horsepower that tows the load, it's torque.

My current trailer is a tough trailer, but it has a lot of bed in front of the axles. About 8 foot in front of the fenders, and 4 feet behind the fenders. Kind of an odd setup. Likely designed to be pulled by a small truck. I end up putting the load fairly centered over the trailer axle. If I keep this pickup, I'll eventually try bagging the axle.

Eventually I'll do some major work on the trailer, and may consider pulling the spring hangers forward a foot or so.

With the 8 speed transmission, it may well not be the torque as much as the wide range gearing.

The only issue I've had is backing up my driveway. If I stop moving, the clutch/torque converter will slip and won't engage, with the reverse being somewhat close to 2nd gear.


So, at times I'll have to throw it in 4-Low, when in reverse, even if I have good traction. So far it hasn't been a problem going forward.
 

pacofortacos

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Where did you get a 3.6 turbo? Did you modify a standard 3.6 with a turbo setup?

Torque is what matters, not hp - well unless you are revving above 5252 rpms.
You can have a ton of torque at low rpm and not much HP and tow very nicely - as all of the older engines did.
Or you can have lower torque but at a much higher rpm and tow nicely at the high rpm.

Hp = (torque X rpm)/5252
 
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Daw14

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Going to add tractor weights cause my headlights are out of focus . No their pointing at aircraft ,perfectly focused just aimed at the sky . Add some helper springs or air bags . Turbo needs focused for more blowoff.
 

2003F350

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Gotta admit I'm a bit confused by this thread...but I guess that just means I gotta go back to da beginnin.

OP wants to know our thoughts on pulling with a large-displacement engine versus a small-displacement engine. And while that USED to be an issue in the old days, the fact is today's small-displacement engines are producing the same amount of torque (or more) than some of the large-displacement engines did in the past. And torque is what moves the load, so the more of it you have the quicker you can get it moving. So while yes, larger-displacement engines still have the advantage, the gap isn't what it used to be for one, and for two smaller-displacement engines can often do quite well.

OP then discusses squat...which is normal but 'counter-balancing' the front with tractor weights isn't a wise idea; you're just adding more weight to the truck and exceeding payload. Best option is as Crash points out, put a WDH on and get it set up right, and adjust the load if necessary. It'll help with any sway issues you're having too, as well as put more weight on your front axle and make the handling feel better.
 

pacofortacos

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A turbo 3.6 would probably pull pretty well if setup correctly.
After all, isn't that what Ram is doing in the next year or so?
 

turkeybird56

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RAM talking an inline 6 with (2) turbo's. Hope they get the porting right and not have the issues Toyota having now with their new 6 cylinder twin turbo or the issues that sometimes occurs with Fords eco Boost twins. All IMHO.
 
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Wahrsuul

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Kinda what I was thinking - the turbo 6 probably has plenty of power, but at what range? The 3.6 likes to spin in it's stock build, where's the power/torque band with the turbo? Also, you're putting more stress on it with the turbo, so how long will it last.

Don't get me wrong, there are times when I wish I'd found a good used 3.6, but if I was looking to tow regular, it would be the Hemi.
 

Gazoo

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I can only reply with my experience. I had a 2016 Ram 1500 V6. I pulled a 5k lb rv trailer. I got 22-24mpg and loved that part. Towing I got about 15. However when towing up a grade I was at high rev and was doing 30mph while speed limit was 50mph. But it didn’t have the braking ability I wanted coming down the mountains. Fast forward to now, I pull a 8k lb rv trailer with a 2022 Ram 2500 GAS engine and it’s been wonderful. So easy. BUT I’m getting 11mpg city and 8.5mpg towing.
 

HydroDog

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There is a reason you don’t see F250/350 with the Ecoboost v6 that makes more torque than the larger gas motors.

My guess it’s the exhaust gas temperature would be to hot from max boost for long duration. If you were max towing the exhaust valves could not take the heat.
 

jimboschnitz

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So based on all the comments it appears the engine is the 3.6 Pentastar with an aftermarket turbo. Glad he likes his engine but if he's revving over 5 grand in 4th going up a grade at 30 mph that's not good. As for the addition of tractor weights, I agree he needs a WDH. I don't think Clifford ever mentioned fuel economy but Gazoo is happy (?) about 8.5mpg towing and 11 mpg city. If you want to tow and get decent fuel economy you need to go with a diesel, ether a 6.7L Cummins or if your load is not too heavy, >10500 #, look at the 3.0 Ecodiesel. I have 3.92 gears and average consistently between 24 and 28 MPG highway depending on how fast i drive and when towing my deep V Crestliner boat with a weight of approx. 4500# with the trailer I average between 14 and 18 MPG depending on the way the wind blows.
 

BadAzp

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As long as exhaust gas temp settles anything can tow, its everything else you have to worry about - tongue weight, wdh, trailer axle ratings (including the trailer weight), rear helper bags on truck, brakes on trailer, breakaway brakes for trailer
 

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