Blackstone - used oil analysis

[HEMIMANN]

One thing I forgot to ask. I've been running the small Fram XG10060 mainly because it's available in stores and I can get it in an out of my truck. The "insoluables" on my report is 0.1, and the blackstone tech noted that the filter was doing a good job. Do you guys agree with that?

I've just bought this oil filter relocation kit and will be installing that for next time and then I'll be able to run the large RP/Fram XG filters without fitment issues.

HP10363 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2019-2024 RAM 1500 5.7L HEMI (M22 x 1.5 Oil Filter Threads)

Check out the deal on HP10363 Oil Filter Relocation Kit for 2019-2024 RAM 1500 5.7L HEMI (M22 x 1.5 Oil Filter Threads) at Pacbrake

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As Burla says, use the biggest high efficiency filter that fits. Fram XG10060 is the smallest. It is stock size. XG10575 is midsize. XG2 is biggest.

Same size order in Royal Purple is 10-48, 20-500, 20-820.

Both Fram XG and Royal Purple are high efficiency. Other brands are not - rock catchers.

 

[ramffml]

Just got the VOA back for HPL Premium Plus Passenger. Any thoughts on this? I'm running it right now, would love some discussion on suitability for towing or how it compares to Redline 0/5w-30:

 

[HEMIMANN]

Good lord, look at the moly in that stuff!! Seems like way overkill seeing as diminishing wear protection above 200 ppm. Wonder what they're thinking? More is always better?

Viscosity is moderated a bit, like most "SP" formulations, with elevated Magnesium, so looks like a typical API SP blend.

The real test will be if / how much it shears down after use vs. the 10.71 cSt vis @ 100C.

Thanks so much for testing and posting!

 

[Hemi395]

Just got the VOA back for HPL Premium Plus Passenger. Any thoughts on this? I'm running it right now, would love some discussion on suitability for towing or how it compares to Redline 0/5w-30:

View attachment 504001

WOW thats old school RL moly levels!

 

[Burla]

You mean diminishing wear protection as in no real benefit, not as in wear gets worse at that level? If that is the case, I'd say no testing done that I have seen has been in hemi tick engines or even in flat tappet cam engines. I'm not sure why there never was moly testing on flat tappets, maybe I just missed it? I'd say in theory that would be an ideal moly level for hemi tick, of course all theory at this point-

I think the oil is near perfect, maybe 1/4 star off for viscosity, the old redline 0w30 and hemi honey 5w30 hemi honey has visc 12. But, I prefer the additive package to redline's. I'd take that moly level plus perhaps the perfect zinc level just a bit over api, as opposed to what redline does. The real question is pao/ester based versus pao base, and what that does or doesnt do. I personally am super stocked redline finally has some competition in the world of tick. Some ram members with tick need to try this. This oil should at least earn the right to be tested, and let those results stand.

Love the use of mag over CA as well. Looks like a winner of an oil in the di application... if I had a di I would run that over redline, in a hemi, all I can say is maybe I would.

thanks ramfinni for doing that..


.

 

[HEMIMANN]

HPL guy told me the top two oils, the first of which is used for Hemi395's VOA, is all PAO except for the small amount of ester oil needed to hold the additives in solution. Recall PAO's can not hold additives in solution - PAO is nonpolar and too uniformly linear molecule to do so.

Red Line adds more ester as part of the base oil package.

My comment about 200 ppm Moly is the knee of the wear test curve that shows little more benefit for greater amounts of moly. I worry too much has unintended effectives, much like the old idiom "if a little grease is good, a whole bunch is better", which led to many a bearing overheating failure.

Agree RL has way more zinc that ideal for a roller lifter.

Bottom line here is, I don't know enough about beaucoup Moly spiking to say HPL's recipe is superior to RL's recipe for non-race engines. I'd want to talk the the HPL guy again why they're spiking so hard - because their zinc additive is not miniscule @ 890 ppm.

 

[Burla]

For sure what moly level is too much, while I personally believe more then 200ppm is better for hemi tick, I don't at all feel comfortable at moly + 1000ppm. It's just a little funny we talk about moly as if it is a need in our engine when most engines it is a luxury. So my hemi tick brain is skewed a bit. We know we could have tried race oils, I do believe the race oils are packed with moly, some over 1800ppm, but I never even wanted to run those as a pcmo. We see some elevated copper on some redline uoa's, it will be great to see ramfinis next uoa and copper level. Esters or high moly have raised copper? We can have at least part of that answer next uoa.

 

[HEMIMANN]

And the tribal investigations continue - what a great Forum!

 

[Michael]

I just got my latest analysis back.

 

[Burla]

Thanks for posting, I take exception to him saying push it another 2k miles. I prefer changing it at 2 tbn then 1, if you were running TAN you would see that TAN creeping up. Copper drops eventhough the miles is up real good, iron wouldn't scare me at all, normal hemi wear especially over 10k miles. You probably already did an oil change, but I would try some 30 weight, if your undisclosed bunker is in snow belt 0w30, if warm place 5w30. Maybe get that piston wear down a bit, for an aged hemi it is more normal to have lower aluminum, and going a lil thicker may help iron as well, plus at these miles your tolerances are wider and all of the lubrication science says go thicker at that point. Just some opinions, uoa looks great. Filtration is good, what filter you running 10k miles? What oil?

Aluminum isnt bad at all, but I'm the kind of guy who would chase perfection especially if there isnt any risk.

 

[Different Drummer]

I don't run the Hemi but just for information I will put this here.
I had 3 quarts on hand of the no longer available Rotella Gas Truck in 5W-20 that I combined with 3 quarts of Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 plus 6 ounces of Lubegard. Cleaning off the shelves of product left over from four different vehicle oil changes.

 

[Burla]

I don't run the Hemi but just for information I will put this here.
I had 3 quarts on hand of the no longer available Rotella Gas Truck in 5W-20 that I combined with 3 quarts of Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 plus 6 ounces of Lubegard. Cleaning off the shelves of product left over from four different vehicle oil changes.

Thanks looks great, copper is dropping despite more miles, everything else standing pat as this report more miles then the last. It is good to see ester based/moly additive not causing increase in copper wear, but even lowering it. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Different Drummer]

Hey Burla,
Your on top of the Lubgard stuff. Does that have a a hefty amount of Na+?
I am confident that the increase in Na+ was not coolant but am curious as to why it was up from 4ppm to 35ppm.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

Hey Burla,
Your on top of the Lubgard stuff. Does that have a a hefty amount of Na+?
I am confident that the increase in Na+ was not coolant but am curious as to why it was up from 4ppm to 35ppm.

It does have some. VOA of Lubegard

 

[Burla]

The sodium in lubegard would likely hardly show up in the uoa, just boost it a little, not 35ppm, that might be in the oil. Did you send the container in full, I think they test for anti freeze or water if you do. It looks like all of the indicators including the visc is normal and w/o contamination. You also had silicone, that plus sodium "could" be from environment through the air filter. From blackstone.. The levels are so low with zero other indicators such as water in oill that I wouldnt worry about it. You see you had sodium even w/o lubegard, it's just elevated probably because of the lubegard or because of the new oil you introduced and the lubegard. When you do the uoa, it has to be full to the top for those free tests blackstone add, the water and insolubles testing. Looks like they did do those and they are negative. That silicone can be from anto foam, if so non abrasive.

Silicon​

A very common contaminant most often found in a very abrasive solid form, which causes increased metal wear numbers (especially Iron) in oil samples. . Its most common source is insufficient air filtration. However, in my oil analysis report it is actually harmless and due to leaching from a silicone sealant I used to seal a leaking valve cover gasket. Silicon concentrations in such cases as this will typically drop after each subsequent oil change

Sodium​

This is most commonly used as a corrosion inhibiter additive, and occasionally can indicate a coolant leak into the oil. Concentration levels vary greatly depending on oil brand.

If 15 ounce lubegard it would be 90/14 to get the amount responsible from that additive, but it may be higher then that voa as well.

 

[Michael]

Thanks for posting, I take exception to him saying push it another 2k miles. I prefer changing it at 2 tbn then 1, if you were running TAN you would see that TAN creeping up. Copper drops eventhough the miles is up real good, iron wouldn't scare me at all, normal hemi wear especially over 10k miles. You probably already did an oil change, but I would try some 30 weight, if your undisclosed bunker is in snow belt 0w30, if warm place 5w30. Maybe get that piston wear down a bit, for an aged hemi it is more normal to have lower aluminum, and going a lil thicker may help iron as well, plus at these miles your tolerances are wider and all of the lubrication science says go thicker at that point. Just some opinions, uoa looks great. Filtration is good, what filter you running 10k miles? What oil?

Aluminum isnt bad at all, but I'm the kind of guy who would chase perfection especially if there isnt any risk.

I did already do the oil change. I normally don’t go over 10K miles per oil change. This is the first time I’ve gone over. I don’t plan on tr trying their suggested 13,500. We have been getting a little snow already.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

I did already do the oil change. I normally don’t go over 10K miles per oil change. This is the first time I’ve gone over. I don’t plan on tr trying their suggested 13,500. We have beef getting a little snow already.
View attachment 505949

Yup we got a little down in sparks/Reno today. May be a sign of a wet winter

 

[Michael]

Yup we got a little down in sparks/Reno today. May be a sign of a wet winter

There’s road controls already going over Donner Pass. Low visibility, due to the snow, out by Ferntucky.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yep - we always saw sodium as a coolant contaminant in UOA @ Mobil.

 

[Travis8352]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2015-ram-1500-5-7l-hemi-red-line-0w-20-19-000-miles.361745/

Heres a redline uoa in a hemi at almost 20k miles! @Burla