Cold start issues

[brmar]

Hi all,

I've had a problem for a while now, about a year, and have been trying to hunt down an issue with cold starts. Originally, I didn't really have any solid clues, so I didn't look for help. Over spring/summer/fall, things were ok enough (still wasn't 100% but almost always started), so I wasn't sure if it actually was the cold or if things sort of just a one-off. Now that I know it's the cold outside and having problems starting, I've decided to post here. It is a 2011, don't know motor size but it is not the hemi (it's the lower powered one).

When the issue originally started, the battery was old so it was sort of the prime suspect. That got replaced. Issues persisted. Then the fuel pump was replaced. Still having issues.

Here are some hints, maybe someone here can help --
- if it's cold, the engine struggles to turn over. It will keep trying until i turn the key off, like a 'ninininini' sound, sorry hard to explain.
- my fuel pump does not stop while the car is on (but not started). usually, i will let it run for at least 30 sec before attempting to start to make certain the line is primed.
- any subsequent attempts to start (at least in the next 4 hr), have no issue.
- the strangest thing though is that, if i hook up a little jump start brick. the thing fires up perfectly. i don't really know how or why that's the case if my battery is good (according to two sources).

Any suggestions?

I did see another post here where the person said they hit the gas while it was trying to start, so I'll be trying that next once I put the battery back in. They also mentioned turning the key 3 times. This was also recommended to me by my mechanic as well, but it never really did anything to help.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Hi all,

I've had a problem for a while now, about a year, and have been trying to hunt down an issue with cold starts. Originally, I didn't really have any solid clues, so I didn't look for help. Over spring/summer/fall, things were ok enough (still wasn't 100% but almost always started), so I wasn't sure if it actually was the cold or if things sort of just a one-off. Now that I know it's the cold outside and having problems starting, I've decided to post here. It is a 2011, don't know motor size but it is not the hemi (it's the lower powered one).

When the issue originally started, the battery was old so it was sort of the prime suspect. That got replaced. Issues persisted. Then the fuel pump was replaced. Still having issues.

Here are some hints, maybe someone here can help --
- if it's cold, the engine struggles to turn over. It will keep trying until i turn the key off, like a 'ninininini' sound, sorry hard to explain.
- my fuel pump does not stop while the car is on (but not started). usually, i will let it run for at least 30 sec before attempting to start to make certain the line is primed.
- any subsequent attempts to start (at least in the next 4 hr), have no issue.
- the strangest thing though is that, if i hook up a little jump start brick. the thing fires up perfectly. i don't really know how or why that's the case if my battery is good (according to two sources).

Any suggestions?

I did see another post here where the person said they hit the gas while it was trying to start, so I'll be trying that next once I put the battery back in. They also mentioned turning the key 3 times. This was also recommended to me by my mechanic as well, but it never really did anything to help.

Thanks in advance.

Do NOT open the throttle while cranking/attempting to start!!!!! With a problem such as you describe, if it is an intermittent fuel delivery issue, a lean backfire at part throttle can and will make shrapnel out of the plastic intake or air filter housing!

 

[brmar]

thanks for the warning @Sherman Bird .

 

[Dean2]

The very slow turnover at first attempt would lead me to suspect the starter motor. The fact that adding a jump pack makes it start much better also makes me suspect the starter is drawing far too many AMPs on the initial starting attempt.

Problem is, could be a bunch of other stuff, like dirty grounds, battery terminals that need cleaning etc. and firing the parts canon looking for a fix can get really expensive in a hurry. Given you can't even identify which motor you have, I would strongly suggest you find a good, honest, independent repair shop and get them to track the problem down.

 

[brmar]

thanks @Dean2 . the truck has been to my mechanic at least three times relating to this issue (first time was a battery, second time was a fuel pump, then a third time for more electrical diagnostics - grounds, terminals, etc like you mentioned).

once the weather got warmer and it started acting better, I stopped hunting. looks like i'll be going back soon.

to be honest, i was really looking for someone with an identical issue who could help me pinpoint things, particularly since the brick resolved things (or that the fuel pump will not stop until the vehicle is off). as for focusing on the starter amperage, i appreciate that tip and will pass it along. even though i'm sure mechanics do not like hearing 'well i read on the internet that...', i figure i might as well mention it.

thanks again

 

[Dean2]

If it has been to your mechanic "at lest three times" and they haven't fixed it, time for a new mechanic. This really isn't that complicated.

How Many Amps Does a Starter Draw? (Fully Explained)

How many amps does a starter draw? If you need to replace your old starter, read on to know more.

www.galvinpower.org

Starter Current Draw Test: Testing Starter Motor

If a vehicle dispays no starting or slow starting conditions a starter current draw test may be in order. How to perform a starter current draw test. What is a starter current draw test? No start and slow start troubleshooting resulting from starter problems

www.freeasestudyguides.com

Testing Starter Motor Current Draw

Knowing how much current a starter is using will tell you if it's working properly.

www.youtube.com

You can follow the info in the article, pretty quick and easy to test. Other option, if want to check the starter on the cheap, go to the wrecker, get another starter. You will need your VIN and what motor you have to get the right one. Swap in the new starter, my bet is it will start fine after that.

 

[turkeybird56]

Is the battery cable positive also getting hot when cranking? If so read below:

Sure sign bad cable and/or starter drawing too many amps.

 

[turkeybird56]

As Dean2 Said. Time for new mechanic. It would help to know wat motor you have. There should be plastic cover on intake says, prob 4.7 magnum.

 

[brmar]

hi @Dean2 thanks for those helpful links.

i would normally agree with your 'new mechanic' statement. however, he has been pretty good to us for the last 10ish years and, once things started getting warmer where the issue couldn't really be reproduced, it kind of put a hold on everything. but yeah, if a solution isn't found soon, i'm going to have to shop around.

thanks dean2

 

[brmar]

hi @turkeybird56 sorry about the engine size. its just freezing out and i didn't feel like looking to be sure. i used the vin to pull some details.

it's a 4.7

 

[brmar]

Is the battery cable positive also getting hot when cranking? If so read below:

Sure sign bad cable and/or starter drawing too many amps.

not sure what you mean by getting hot. like to the touch?

as for the cable - and sorry if this sounds dumb - but wouldn't the power coming from the brick be going through the same wiring etc as the battery?

 

[turkeybird56]

Check positive cable. See if real warm, or even hot to touch after cranking motor. Real warm or hot cable sign of Bad cable and/or starter pulling too many amps.

 

[turkeybird56]

not sure what you mean by getting hot. like to the touch?

as for the cable - and sorry if this sounds dumb - but wouldn't the power coming from the brick be going through the same wiring etc as the battery?

Charging brick not the issue. I have a lithium power box never noticed current going to battery hot cable but Neva checked. Cable being the positive cable that goes from the battery into wiring harness and into system. That cable. If getting real warm/hot could indicate a bad cable but usually more with starter going bad pulling too many amps.

IMHO u need find mechanic knows wat he is doing to properly diagnose and repair truck to keep from firing parts cannon. But yer ride and wallet. Do wat works for u.

Cause: U there. Internet guessnosis is just that. Guessing towards possible issues.

Caveat 2: A bad ground will also cause system to try and compensate by pulling more juice. So u need to check grounds also.

 

[brmar]

Charging brick not the issue. I have a lithium power box never noticed current going to battery hot cable but Neva checked. Cable being the positive cable that goes from the battery into wiring harness and into system. That cable. If getting real warm/hot could indicate a bad cable but usually more with starter going bad pulling too many amps.

IMHO u need find mechanic knows wat he is doing to properly diagnose and repair truck to keep from firing parts cannon. But yer ride and wallet. Do wat works for u.

Cause: U there. Internet guessnosis is just that. Guessing towards possible issues.

Caveat 2: A bad ground will also cause system to try and compensate by pulling more juice. So u need to check grounds also.

thanks for that info. i'm almost certain grounds were checked when it was in for diagnosis previously but i will mention it again.

just curious -- are you able to explain why the jump pack magically makes everything better but doesn't matter in terms of diagnosis? for example, is it getting more amps/volts/whatever and this is getting around the potential high starter draw issues? note that this isn't one of the huge jump packs that have auto batteries in them. it's one of those smaller things that charges over USB.

thanks

 

[turkeybird56]

thanks for that info. i'm almost certain grounds were checked when it was in for diagnosis previously but i will mention it again.

just curious -- are you able to explain why the jump pack magically makes everything better but doesn't matter in terms of diagnosis? for example, is it getting more amps/volts/whatever and this is getting around the potential high starter draw issues? note that this isn't one of the huge jump packs that have auto batteries in them. it's one of those smaller things that charges over USB.

thanks

My opinion only. The brick just supplying extra power to system. U r not trying to diagnose the brick just the truck systems. Brick not magically doing ne thing just supplying power that the system may not be getting from the battery.

Caveat: If the starter is pulling to many amps to work than U got a starter issue. Brick not in any truck equation ref diagnose it is Just supplying needed power.

I also got a small lithium powered jump box like U.

 

[jws123]

It sounds like you have the TIPM Fuel pump bypass since you said your fuel pump runs with key on. Maybe start there solder on a new fuel pump relay onto the tipm its not that hard another option is to wire in a external relay.

 

[brmar]

It sounds like you have the TIPM Fuel pump bypass since you said your fuel pump runs with key on. Maybe start there solder on a new fuel pump relay onto the tipm its not that hard another option is to wire in a external relay.

good observation. yes, i do.

for what it's worth, it doesn't really sound like a fuel issue. there is a noticeable difference in how much 'oomph' is there when trying to turn over. like it's def not 100% of how strong it sounds trying to start after it's warm. that's not to say this isn't the case, i don't know a whole lot about how these things work.

thanks though, I appreciate the input

 

[jws123]

good observation. yes, i do.

for what it's worth, it doesn't really sound like a fuel issue. there is a noticeable difference in how much 'oomph' is there when trying to turn over. like it's def not 100% of how strong it sounds trying to start after it's warm. that's not to say this isn't the case, i don't know a whole lot about how these things work.

thanks though, I appreciate the input

record and upload a vid of the next cold start.

 

[brmar]

record and upload a vid of the next cold start.

I have some from last winter. I'll upload in about a half hr

 

[brmar]

sorry, apparently i only have one, but the noise at the end (ni-ni-ni-ni) will happen until i turn the key bak to off.

Watch VID_20240310_065732361 | Streamable

Watch "VID_20240310_065732361" on Streamable.

streamable.com

it'll expire after 2 days but i can reupload