DEF Pump dead, decisions decisions ....

[Gr8bawana]

It seems like 90% of the failures are emissions related..... If your going to keep your truck for a while delete it, this rebuilt $500 pump is 1/3 the cost of a delete. If your the guy who wants to have a newer truck every few years toss as little into it as you can until you part ways with it.

Deleting is not the answer to everything. Many people live where that is just not feasible because of emissions testing.
Also there are so many new threads started here that begin with "my truck is tuned and deleted" and i'm having such and such problems.

 

[SouthTexan]

I probably see ten stock truck threads with issues for every one tuned threads with an issue. Mine has been tuned for over 100k with out one issue from the engine. Transmission is another matter, but that was my fault.

 

[chri5k]

8/5

Man these rebuilt pumps are hard to find in stock. None of the usual large auto parts places had them. Most didn't even have a listing for one. I had to resort to Ebay to try to find one in stock. Two Ebay sellers took my order and 2 days later cancelled the order. Sorry not in stock. Really!! Thanks for wasting my time you mother f'ers.

Finally found 2 at ekgdiesel.com. They were on Ebay but I found their website and phone number. These guys and gals are fantastic. I relayed my tale of woe and the guy said their website inventory is usually spot on. However, he sent someone to the warehouse to put hands on one. Called me back 10 minutes later to confirm it was sitting on his desk waiting on me to place the order. The gal he asked said no problem getting out by the UPS cut off time today. She would take there herself. Less than an hour later I had an email from UPS that the package was in their possession and scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Great people and great service at EKG Diesel so check them out if you need parts for your Cummins. They are mainly an engine rebuilder but also have an engine parts business.

 

[chri5k]

8/6 Update

Received the pump from EKG Diesel as promised. Huge thanks to the guys and gals there. They really came through for me. The pump has a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty from them.

Mounting the pump was pretty easy and took about 30 minutes. The groove for the o-ring is in the bottom of the tank but just wiggle the pump unit a bit helps it find it's seat pretty easily. The one part to watch the four red fingers of the DEF quality sensor. I needed to hold the pump up near the opening and carefully thread them into the tank. Check carefully to make sure none of them are pinched between the pump and the bottom of the tank. Reinstall the pump retaining ring hand tight and recheck to make sure the o-ring and DEF quality sensor fingers are not pinched between the pump and tank. I drove the ring back into the locked position with the pry bar and 5 Lb multi-direction force generator. Reconnected the DEF line and the pump electrical connector. I found a TSB online about replacing the pump and it had a little tip about flushing the line and priming the pump. I disconnected the DEF line at the injector and ran the the AlphaOBD "DEF prime override test" procedure 10 times to fully prime the pump and flush out anything from the line. Reconnected the the DEF line to the injector and did one last clearing of any codes. Started the truck and let it idle for a few minutes. At startup the "Service DEF message displayed with 140 miles to 5 MPH" but no CEL. I shut it down and rechecked for codes and none were present. I restarted the truck and received the "Service DEF message displayed with 140 miles to 5 MPH" but no CEL. I drove the truck for about 1/2 hour and it ran perfectly. I shutdown the truck and let it sleep for a few minutes. Upon restart the "Service DEF message displayed with 140 miles to 5 MPH" did not appear and no CEL. A final shutdown, recheck for codes and restart seems to confirm the truck is back in working order.

I did hit up Benny for a price on a new DEF pump. His price was way less than the other dealers but I had already ordered the rebuilt pump and it was in transit. Benny had a 2 week backorder with a possible sourcing from a sister dealership. I would have to place the order with him first to find out if another dealer had it. So unfortunately due to time constraints I was not able to give him my business this time around. I will be sending my failed pump out for the rebuild service through Rock Auto so I will have a spare ready to go and avoid this nightmare if I should have this issue again.

 

[chri5k]

8/9 Update

Well my joy was very short lived. Right after posting the 8/6 update I went to go to the store. The DEF gauge started creeping UP from a little below 1/2 to 3/4. Not a good sign. Then it dropped to 0 and the Refill DEF message appeared followed shortly by the CEL light. Looks like the DEF sender on the unit is no good. A check of the codes with AlphaOBD confirmed there is a code set for low DEF. I did check the DEF pump connector for proper +5 and ground using a schematic I found online and they both check out. It was making pressure since I was able to do the Override Prime function with AlphaOBD when I installed it. The factory part is on national backorder for 2 weeks but we all know what that means. Could be 2 months. The units are made in Mexico so at least there isn't the shipping from China issue. There is an aftermarket part made by Spectra Premium (P/N EM1301DSP) but it is on national backorder as well. No idea where it is made or what the backorder time is for those units.

I will reach out to EKG Diesel tomorrow morning since they did have 2 in stock before I bought this one and they have a 12 month unlimited mileage warranty. Hopefully they can overnight the other one to me if it has not been sold. It is getting harder and harder to not do the full delete. I know the pandemic has supply lines all messed up but I need my truck.

 

[Sandevino]

Holy f#cking **** Batman... I’m sorry you’re dealing with this nonsense. An EPA mandated system shouldn’t be so difficult to maintain or repair.

 

[chri5k]

Yep like I mentioned to someone else I have an issue when a non-critical, to the basic functioning of the truck, system strands you in potentially dangerous situation. It is like that DEF system can fail at any time and you have 150 miles to get to safety. There are a number of folks that travel in the boonies like me and that can be a real challenge. Or late a night, or .... It is not like a friendly reminder to have the DEF system serviced, it is Tony and Vito with a baseball bat saying, "That is a nice truck you have there, would be a shame if it quit running".

I suppose Greta Thunberg and the other Greenies think it is a critical system. I can hear it now, "How dare you steal my dreams and my childhood by calling the DEF system non-critical ..."

 

[Elkman]

I would not trust the error code to diagnose the problem. Is the DEF pump has failed then it should show if you provide power to it and nothing happens. The programming on these systems is terrible and misleading error codes are common.

In your place I would buy a third party pump and install it. If it fixes the problem you are OK and if not then you have a spare pump.

DEF only goes bad after 6 months of being stored in sunlight or in freezing weather or over 120 degrees. Bad DEF is a common error code that should not be relied upon. Dealers will fault the DEF as a way to avoid making repairs from failed parts.

 

[chri5k]

The error code is P203F - Reductant Level Too Low and the DEF gauge rose from slightly below 1/2 to 3/4 and then dropped to 0 in about 1 minute. I had put in 2.5 gallons of fresh DEF when installing the pump. The voltage and ground at the pump for the DEF level sensor has the correct voltage so it looks like it is not producing a signal. The DEF level sensor is not a simple float type mechanism. It is an RF antenna that puts out a weak signal. As the DEF level drops, the signal changes as well and that is interpreted by the DCU to indicate the level. The pump motor is not a simple +12 volts and ground unfortunately. It has 3 phases and requires a driver to provide PWM signals to the 3 phases in sequence. The pump responded to the Override Priming command at install so it would seem the Doser Control Unit and pump motor are working. Unplugging the DEF pump harness and turning the truck on (not starting) produced the proper error codes for the open circuits. Unplugging both ends of the pump harness and testing them for shorting to one another did not show any shorts.

If there was a new third party or OEM pump not at a rip off price anywhere in the US I would buy it. The OEM pump is on national backorder. I called 10 dealers around the country to see if they happened to have one on the shelf. The aftermarket pump made by Spectra Premium is also on national backorder. I have called every place I could find on the Internet that sells them to see if they had one. There is one OEM pump on Ebay but the seller wants $1000 firm with no warranty. Not willing to gamble $1000 on an Ebay seller.

 

[chri5k]

8/10 Update

So I decided to start prowling the wrecking yards in search of a pump. For reference when searching car-part.com, the name is Exhaust Fluid Pump. Turns out an LKQ about an hour from me has one. I call to make sure and they say yes they have the whole DEF Tank assembly and it is $398. It is from a 2017 with 35K miles on it but obviously been in a wreck. Tells me they will have pulled and ready for pick up by 10:30. Oh joy, things are looking up. I call at 10:30 to make sure it is ready and the lady tells me the sales guy will call me back. Uh oh. Well 12:30 rolls around and still no call. So I call them back and get the salesman. He tells me they pulled the assembly from the truck but it was damaged. It seems they don't actually pull and inspect the part until you order and pay for it.

With my hopes of getting my truck running dimming, I try once again to search the Internet and Ebay for the part number. Lo and behold I find a brand new pump on Ebay for $800. No hesitation on pulling the trigger. After I purchase it, I get a hold of the seller to see if they can expedite shipping. He tells me they are a large service company who is changing their fleet from RAM to Ford. The pump is at their logistics center and it will ship from there but he has no way of changing the shipping service. He thinks it will get to me this Wednesday or Thursday at the latest. I also ordered a new wiring harness for the DEF tank just in case something is wrong with mine even though it tested good. That should be here Thursday or Friday. Everyone please pray for my DEF pump and harness to arrive safe and sound.

Another tip. Take the whole tank out of the truck rather than try to service it through the hole in the bottom. I did that the first time as documented above and have the skinned knuckles to prove it. It took me about 1.5 hours to remove the tank. The crossmember only holds the DEF tank and one rubber hanger for the SCR. Take out the four bolts that hold the cross member out from the drivers side. Remove the bottom bolt on the passengers side. Remove the rubber hanger for the SCR. Disconnect the DEF line from the injector. Remove the injector line from the holders along the frame. Loosen the top bolt on the crossmember and it will slowly start to flop down. Don't remove the bolt completely as the crossmember on the drivers side will be on the ground after a few turns. This will give plenty of room to take off the one connector to a wiring harness on the frame. Take off the 4 remaining connectors, 2 on the Dosing Control unit on top of the tank, 1 on the DEF line near the pump outlet and 1 on the bottom of the tank. Next remove the bolt that holds the strap which holds the tank to the crossmember. You can now remove the tank. It is much easier to loosen the lock ring on the pump since you can just tap straight on one of the ears and it will come loose with a few moderate taps. No need for the big hammer this time. With the pump out, I thoroughly cleaned and dried the inside of the tank with damp paper towels. Inspected the the wiring harness more closely and did not find any issues. So no it sits quietly in the garage with a clean towel over it awaiting the new parts.

 

[chri5k]

8/17 Update

So the new pump and wiring harness have been in the truck since 8/13. I have driven the truck for about 750 miles since then with no issues. DEF gauge indication and usage as shown by the gauge seems normal for that amount of driving and the exhaust has the usual "swimming pool" like smell.

I did conduct a further disassembly of the wiring harness connector at the DEF pump for closer inspection. On each side of the male portion of the connector that goes into the female connector on the pump are two plastic "doors" that conceal and secure the wiring pins into the connector shell. These doors pop open with a small screw driver and reveal the locking tab and side of the connector pin. There were some traces of dried DEF on one side of the connector. Though I wrapped the connector in electrical tape before the initial pump removal, it appears some DEF seeped into that connector. This strengthens my belief that it is best to remove the tank and harness from the vehicle before removing the pump from the tank. This way one can ensure the harness is not doused with DEF when removing the pump. DEF is highly corrosive and I found 3 of the pins had some light corrosion. I believe this contamination occurred when I initially removed the pump with the tank mounted in the vehicle. There is no way to get all of the DEF out of the tank so removing the pump from the bottom of the tank results in getting a DEF shower. The harness is in a channel formed by the side of the tank and the crossmember so it can readily be moved out of the way of this shower. I do not believe this contamination occurred earlier or is related to the initial pump failure.

I do plan to send my original pump out for a proper rebuild from Cardone. They ahve the equipment and processes to disassemble the pump, replace failed internal components and thoroughly test the rebuilt pump. It seems "rebuilt" pumps on Ebay have been removed from running vehicles, externally wiped down and rinsed with water. Without a working pump there is no way to thoroughly rinse out the internals of the pump. The internal workings of the pump seem to hold DEF and it leaks out slowly in the packaging. If anyone else finds themselves in this predicament, please feel free to PM me on anything that is not clear from these write-ups.

 

[HDGoose]

I read more...you answered my questions.

Thanks for the information.

 

[chri5k]

11/17 Update

New DEF pump is working great. The OEM units are still on national backorder with no ETA and the aftermarket ones are still unavailable until further notice. I sent the failed unit to be rebuilt by Cardone through Rock Auto. The whole process including shipping both ways took 1 month to the day and I now have a freshly rebuilt spare pump if this nightmare ever happens again.

 

[GsRAM]

Glad to hear all is well! What an ordeal! Wow. What a pain.

Your thread is more fuel for my fire that as long as I don't need the capacity of a diesel, I don't want one. My gas powered truck does everything I ask of it and quite well, but everyone's needs are different.

Hope you have many trouble free miles going forward.

 

[chri5k]

I definitely have a need for a diesel so it is what is is. I wouldn't really couch this as diesel versus gas thing. This is more of a COVID / supply chain fragility issue that can happen to any critical part regardless of fuel type.

I was really close to doing the full delete. I still have the complete kit in the garage. I will probably put the kit up for sale. However, I travel a distance from home fairly regularly with animals in a trailer. I don't want to be stranded somewhere far from home with a truck nobody wants to touch because of a bunch of modifications. We are already wed to FCA for some parts / services and I don't want to be wed to a tuning company as well.

 

[GsRAM]

Good deal. Best of luck.

 

[w6pea]

I took my 2019 JGC down to the dealer to have warranty recall done, anyway a couple of days later, I drove my 2016 2500 Ram Laramie with 6.7L CTD in it. I told the dealer that there was a check engine light that had come on.I wanted my Ram Truck serviced. So I left my truck. They called me on Monday (yesterday) and told me that they cleared the check engine light. It was for my DEF system The service writer told me that it was covered under warranty for emission standards. So I will wait and see. I guess from what I got from the service writer he said that they were going to replace the Pump and the DEF Tank and flush out the DEF Lines and fuel lines. I never heard of diesel fueling bad before. When I started it up to drive it down to the dealer it was like it was raring to go. My service writer said that the mechanic that had worked on my truck said that the DEF and FUEL System and Lines were gummed up.

I guess maybe I need to drive my truck more often. Thanks to this COVID-19 stuff I have not driven any of my vehicles. I guess maybe the vehicles need to driven and driven like they are meant to be driven not like I was a "Little Old Lady From Pasadena". It's bad enough I have a 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrailHawk, 5.7L Hemi, with on 458 miles on it and my 2016 Ram-2500 Laramie only has 8489 miles on it.Maybe they both need to be driven and shown a little bit of love, to quote my service writer.